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Good times in Britain right?

There must be full employment, low crime rates right across the country and, also businesses are booming right across the country. It’s a shame my life isn’t as good as the rest of you living in the UK right? I don’t know why lol. What does everybody say? Many Thanks

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Yes, things are pretty perfect right now.

How did the arrests go?

Reply 2

Original post
by ShahidullIslam
There must be full employment, low crime rates right across the country and, also businesses are booming right across the country. It’s a shame my life isn’t as good as the rest of you living in the UK right? I don’t know why lol. What does everybody say? Many Thanks

Are you mentally disabled?

Reply 3

Original post
by ShahidullIslam
There must be full employment, low crime rates right across the country and, also businesses are booming right across the country. It’s a shame my life isn’t as good as the rest of you living in the UK right? I don’t know why lol. What does everybody say? Many Thanks

Horses for courses. If you have obtained skills and knowledge that business will pay for, getting a job isn't too hard.
Original post
by ShahidullIslam
There must be full employment, low crime rates right across the country and, also businesses are booming right across the country. It’s a shame my life isn’t as good as the rest of you living in the UK right? I don’t know why lol. What does everybody say? Many Thanks


You have forgotten to mention the perfect integration of migrated people. You live in the best Britain ever, don't forget.

Reply 5

Original post
by Kallisto
You have forgotten to mention the perfect integration of migrated people. You live in the best Britain ever, don't forget.

As opposed to where exactly? It is all very well raising the immigration flag as if it is a negative thing whilst comparing it to somewhere like Hungry, forgetting completely that Hungry has a rather dim view of human rights, liberty and freedom of expression. Fine, if you are repressed and conservative of mind but if you live life to the full, give me immigration and liberty any day.

Reply 6

Original post
by hotpud
As opposed to where exactly? It is all very well raising the immigration flag as if it is a negative thing whilst comparing it to somewhere like Hungry, forgetting completely that Hungry has a rather dim view of human rights, liberty and freedom of expression. Fine, if you are repressed and conservative of mind but if you live life to the full, give me immigration and liberty any day.

Sweden?
Ireland?
Iceland?
Switzerland?

Liberty and immigration would be great, an issue in the UK is immigrants are often made to be reliant on the state rather than being left with their liberty to find work, house themselves and build capital. As it is the state imposes taxes on the pre-existing populous to pay for the needs of immigrants, reducing everyone's liberty.
Original post
by hotpud
As opposed to where exactly? It is all very well raising the immigration flag as if it is a negative thing whilst comparing it to somewhere like Hungry, forgetting completely that Hungry has a rather dim view of human rights, liberty and freedom of expression. Fine, if you are repressed and conservative of mind but if you live life to the full, give me immigration and liberty any day.


Everyone who migrate to Britain should have a working permit for the UK, willing to learn the language and should not have any crime records when someone crosses the border. Anything else would lead to havoc, insecurity and loss of state revenues in the long run.

Reply 8

Original post
by Kallisto
Everyone who migrate to Britain should have a working permit for the UK, willing to learn the language and should not have any crime records when someone crosses the border. Anything else would lead to havoc, insecurity and loss of state revenues in the long run.

I believe the law already dictates this. The question is how much of our liberty are we prepared to give up with a view to implementing a system of enforcement which would be pretty invasive. For example, we don't have ID cards in this country.
Original post
by hotpud
I believe the law already dictates this. The question is how much of our liberty are we prepared to give up with a view to implementing a system of enforcement which would be pretty invasive. For example, we don't have ID cards in this country.


Liberty is a word without meaning, if everyone who migrates in UK does not accept and respect the British law because of their religious views on society and co-existence. Increase crime activities and lack of freedom in this country are the consequences.

Reply 10

Original post
by Kallisto
Liberty is a word without meaning, if everyone who migrates in UK does not accept and respect the British law because of their religious views on society and co-existence. Increase crime activities and lack of freedom in this country are the consequences.

I think we are arguing the same point. You have said that everyone who comes here should follow the law. I am saying that is already the case. Migrants to this country are subjected to the same laws that everyone else is. Where we need to be careful is going down the rabbit hole of saying that "we" have one set of laws but "they" must follow a different set of laws.

And liberty does have a meaning in this country. It means you are free to express yourself as you please within the law. The problem comes when people don't like the way others express themselves. My point would be that we simply must compromise because to dictate that you can't be a certain way is regressive. People love laws that punish other people forgetting that it doesn't take a huge leap to become the "other" people and all of a sudden those laws are aimed squarely at you. That is not a liberal society. That is dictatorship. Plenty of countries around the world to live in if that's your bag.

Reply 11

Original post
by hotpud
I think we are arguing the same point. You have said that everyone who comes here should follow the law. I am saying that is already the case. Migrants to this country are subjected to the same laws that everyone else is. Where we need to be careful is going down the rabbit hole of saying that "we" have one set of laws but "they" must follow a different set of laws.
And liberty does have a meaning in this country. It means you are free to express yourself as you please within the law. The problem comes when people don't like the way others express themselves. My point would be that we simply must compromise because to dictate that you can't be a certain way is regressive. People love laws that punish other people forgetting that it doesn't take a huge leap to become the "other" people and all of a sudden those laws are aimed squarely at you. That is not a liberal society. That is dictatorship. Plenty of countries around the world to live in if that's your bag.
'Migrants to this country are subjected to the same laws that everyone else is.'

The law changes over time.

In part that is due to immigrants. Both those who entered legally and those who entered illegally.

'And liberty does have a meaning in this country. It means you are free to express yourself as you please within the law.'

Liberty has a wider meaning/definition than that and what constitutes 'necessary interferrance' is wide open to interpretation.

'My point would be that we simply must compromise because to dictate that you can't be a certain way is regressive.'

That's an opinion, a two fold one. Firstly that it is 'regressive' rather than maintaining the status quo, secondly that being 'regressive' is bad. I'd like to regress to my childhood rather than progress to my death.

Reply 12

Original post
by Kallisto
Everyone who migrate to Britain should have a working permit for the UK, willing to learn the language and should not have any crime records when someone crosses the border. Anything else would lead to havoc, insecurity and loss of state revenues in the long run.

We don't insist our own citizen have clean records so it seems a bit unfair to expect outsiders to, what's the point of the rehabilitation of offenders act etc if we don't apply it's logic equally?

I'm all for barring people with serious or habitual offences with demonstrable risk but not this selective zero tolerance stuff. This was how the USA liked to do things and well, nowadays they've grabbing tourists out airports and giving them the CIA blacksite treatment for thought crimes about their orange baboon.

Reply 13

Original post
by Quady

That's an opinion, a two fold one. Firstly that it is 'regressive' rather than maintaining the status quo, secondly that being 'regressive' is bad. I'd like to regress to my childhood rather than progress to my death.

I think in this case regressive is still bad. If you regress to your childhood you loose all the knowledge and experience you have gained as you moved into adulthood. All the good you have done in the world is undone and we end up going backwards.

It is the same with regressive laws. The losers are always those who enjoy their freedoms and the winners are those who seek to strengthen their grip on power. Regressive societies benefit only those with power an influence.

Reply 14

Original post
by hotpud
I think in this case regressive is still bad. If you regress to your childhood you loose all the knowledge and experience you have gained as you moved into adulthood. All the good you have done in the world is undone and we end up going backwards.
It is the same with regressive laws. The losers are always those who enjoy their freedoms and the winners are those who seek to strengthen their grip on power. Regressive societies benefit only those with power an influence.

That rather implies you become a better person as you get older. I don't see much evidence of that.

Reply 15

Original post
by Quady
That rather implies you become a better person as you get older. I don't see much evidence of that.

I'm a better person. I am more knowledgeable. More empathetic. More caring. And I have done a lot of good for the world. To undo all of that would achieve nothing.

I agree I don't speak for all older people, but if you keep regressing everyone back to childhood, we end up back in our caves. Either way, it is an abstract concept that doesn't really illustrate the negative effects of regressive governments or policies.

As I understand it, regressive policies favour the rich and powerful at the cost of the middle and lower classes. Progressive policies see more equity in society and I believe there is quite a lot of evidence that show that equal societies are happier and more productive for it.
(edited 8 months ago)

Reply 16

Original post
by hotpud
I'm a better person. I am more knowledgeable. More empathetic. More caring. And I have done a lot of good for the world. To undo all of that would achieve nothing.
I agree I don't speak for all older people, but if you keep regressing everyone back to childhood, we end up back in our caves. Either way, it is an abstract concept that doesn't really illustrate the negative effects of regressive governments or policies.
As I understand it, regressive policies favour the rich and powerful at the cost of the middle and lower classes. Progressive policies see more equity in society and I believe there is quite a lot of evidence that show that equal societies are happier and more productive for it.

Yes, for example tax on alcohol and cigarettes are regressive taxes. It would be progressive if poorer people were taxed less on those goods than richer people.

In terms of immigration, to reduce inequality in a country one would look to import immigrants of the weighted average of the country's existing income distribution. Immigration of people poorer or richer would increase inequality.

Reply 17

ngl britain's not exactly sunshine n roses for everyone lol. cost of living n rent are sky high, some ppl can't find jobs or get enough hours. but whinging on here wont fix anything, we all see our own bubble. there r good things too like rights n free speech etc. guess its somewhere in the middle

Reply 18

Original post
by carloqc
ngl britain's not exactly sunshine n roses for everyone lol. cost of living n rent are sky high, some ppl can't find jobs or get enough hours. but whinging on here wont fix anything, we all see our own bubble. there r good things too like rights n free speech etc. guess its somewhere in the middle

Free speech, you have to be joking right? The UKs free speech is going down the toilet. The global expression report came out and the UK has dropped out of the top tier for the first time.

Reply 19

Original post
by Quady
Yes, for example tax on alcohol and cigarettes are regressive taxes. It would be progressive if poorer people were taxed less on those goods than richer people.
In terms of immigration, to reduce inequality in a country one would look to import immigrants of the weighted average of the country's existing income distribution. Immigration of people poorer or richer would increase inequality.

I think cigarette and alcohol duties can be viewed as both progressive and regressive. If you are talking in purely economic terms then yes, I agree they are regressive. But it is also a fact that lower socioeconomic groups have poorer health outcomes and are more likely to smoke. Taxes on unhealthy activities such as smoking therefore help to increase health outcomes whilst also reducing costs of treatment and in that regard could be considered progressive.

I guess it depends on how you view society. If we are all just economic units who earn and spend then your view is quite different from one where a society is about social cohesion, happiness and an overriding greater good.

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