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Chemistry BSc+MSc at a more internationally reputable university, or MChem

Currently an MChem student at the University of York.
I have a dilemma: should I drop to a BSc at York, then look for an MSc program at a more internationally reputable university, or should I continue on the MChem at york.

The main considerations are :
1) the undergraduate loan for the MChem is nicer than the undergraduate loan + the MSc loan
2) employability with the MSc from a top uni.

Thoughts on the best move?

Reply 1

Original post
by Iceyballz
Currently an MChem student at the University of York.
I have a dilemma: should I drop to a BSc at York, then look for an MSc program at a more internationally reputable university, or should I continue on the MChem at york.
The main considerations are :
1) the undergraduate loan for the MChem is nicer than the undergraduate loan + the MSc loan
2) employability with the MSc from a top uni.
Thoughts on the best move?

Depends on what you consider "more internationally reputable"
What's your goal after the degree?

How will you be funding the standalone masters for that option (note you have much more limited funding if being funded by SFE for this route)?

Reply 3

Original post
by armandaghan
Depends on what you consider "more internationally reputable"

My grades at York are currently ~80%, so i'd apply for oxbridge ,Imperial, Edinburgh, and ucl. Maybe others.

Reply 4

Original post
by artful_lounger
What's your goal after the degree?
How will you be funding the standalone masters for that option (note you have much more limited funding if being funded by SFE for this route)?

I have money saved up from being very frugal during my time at York. I'd still need to take out a postgraduate loan, though.

My goal after university? I'm really not sure... I just want to have the most options and be the most desirable to employers as I can possibly be. I've been looking into patent law, but that's still a very nascent plan.
Original post
by Iceyballz
I have money saved up from being very frugal during my time at York. I'd still need to take out a postgraduate loan, though.

My goal after university? I'm really not sure... I just want to have the most options and be the most desirable to employers as I can possibly be. I've been looking into patent law, but that's still a very nascent plan.

Realistically outside of investment banking or management consulting which uni you went to isn't going to be a big factor (if at all). For those areas I think it might be more realistically expected a masters at a target uni be done in a relevant area, as while they accept any undergrad degree I am not so certain "non-target unrelated undergrad to target unrelated postgrad" is going to be as acceptable as "target unrelated undergrad" or "non-target unrelated undergrad target related postgrad".

I think you're overestimating the importance of that element. Most employers don't care where (or what) you studied and some actually recruit "blind" where they don't reveal your uni to the people deciding on whether to offer you a role or not to avoid bias. Note much more important than what uni you go to is what relevant work experience and internships you've gotten, how prepared you are for assessment centre days and psychometric tests etc. Doing the MChem gives you an "extra" summer for internships specifically targeted at undergrad students (some of which may not be available you when going from graduating with the BSc to a postgrad course elsewhere).

Honestly I don't see any compelling reason for you to change university (by graduating with the BSc and then doing a masters elsewhere) so far, unless you have experienced some kind of specific trauma at your current uni and can't bear to stay in the area or have some caring commitments or medical requirements to be in a different area?

Reply 6

Original post
by artful_lounger
Realistically outside of investment banking or management consulting which uni you went to isn't going to be a big factor (if at all). For those areas I think it might be more realistically expected a masters at a target uni be done in a relevant area, as while they accept any undergrad degree I am not so certain "non-target unrelated undergrad to target unrelated postgrad" is going to be as acceptable as "target unrelated undergrad" or "non-target unrelated undergrad target related postgrad".
I think you're overestimating the importance of that element. Most employers don't care where (or what) you studied and some actually recruit "blind" where they don't reveal your uni to the people deciding on whether to offer you a role or not to avoid bias. Note much more important than what uni you go to is what relevant work experience and internships you've gotten, how prepared you are for assessment centre days and psychometric tests etc. Doing the MChem gives you an "extra" summer for internships specifically targeted at undergrad students (some of which may not be available you when going from graduating with the BSc to a postgrad course elsewhere).
Honestly I don't see any compelling reason for you to change university (by graduating with the BSc and then doing a masters elsewhere) so far, unless you have experienced some kind of specific trauma at your current uni and can't bear to stay in the area or have some caring commitments or medical requirements to be in a different area?

So why do people care so much about getting into a top institution if it's ultimately unimportant? I find that hard to believe
Original post
by Iceyballz
So why do people care so much about getting into a top institution if it's ultimately unimportant? I find that hard to believe

Because of extensive marketing campaigns by certain universities, and due to inaccurate beliefs being repeated continually by school "university advisors". Also just not understanding how the job market works these days and/or focusing exclusively on a very small range of jobs that do care about that (e.g. investment banking/management consulting) when realistically these represent a small fraction of the graduate jobs available.

There are of course other reasons to pursue those "top" institutions beyond assuming they will give one better employment prospects. But realistically social mobility in the UK is extremely low and university is no longer a good tool for social mobility for the vast majority of students. However it's still assumed that university is a ticket to a good life, when in reality it's kind of the minimum expectation now for many roles and being a university graduate from anywhere, including "top" institutions, is no longer a big selling point.

Reasons to pursue such "top" institutions for non-prestige purposes would include:

usually a wider range of options available (due to typically having larger departments with more research and thus more teaching staff able to teach modules in different specialty areas)

potentially more or more extensive facilities (this can be very variable though)

smaller and more niche specialisms tending to be more frequently or only represented at those due to being quite specific

to engage with more advance material sooner in the course due to some such universities having high entry crtieria which corresponds to a higher level of expected incoming knowledge and thus students there start more quickly on more advanced stuff rather than spending longer recapping/reviewing content at a lower level to ensure everyone has the same foundation before starting on those


Of course these all aren't always true either, I think particularly with the last category at most universities even "top" universities outside of one or two exceptions, courses are broadly similar in the "upper half" of unis countrywide anyway. Likewise the second category can be quite variable as often universities seen as "weaker" due to usually being newer and ex-polys may in fact have quite new facilities that have recently been built, while older and more established universities may find they have to manage aging estates much more and budgetary and planning constraints limit upgrading, expanding, or building new facilities.

It's mainly categories 1 and 3 above which are generally true in my observation and experience - universities considered academically strong for a subject normally are able to offer a wide range of options covering all commonly available areas (thus avoiding railroading students into a smaller number of specialty areas due to lacking specialisms there) as well as larger numbers of niche/smaller areas that otherwise aren't commonly encountered in typical courses.

Reply 8

Uni of York is one of the best unis for chemistry in the UK though? It's consistently top ~7. Why wouldn't you complete your mchem there ???

Reply 9

Original post
by jobertfoggart
Uni of York is one of the best unis for chemistry in the UK though? It's consistently top ~7. Why wouldn't you complete your mchem there ???

Subject rankings are meaningless

Reply 10

Bump

Reply 11

Original post
by Iceyballz
So why do people care so much about getting into a top institution if it's ultimately unimportant? I find that hard to believe

Job market is buggered at the moment- I know MEng Cambridge students who can't get a 25k engineering job.

What uni, and what you study unless it's medicine and you're going into medicine does not matter. It's difficult for everyone. What's particularly important now is getting as much work experience as possible while at University to make you stand out as 50% of the population have gone to university and just going to a red brick does nothing for you anymore

Reply 12

Original post
by edsc
Job market is buggered at the moment- I know MEng Cambridge students who can't get a 25k engineering job.
What uni, and what you study unless it's medicine and you're going into medicine does not matter. It's difficult for everyone. What's particularly important now is getting as much work experience as possible while at University to make you stand out as 50% of the population have gone to university and just going to a red brick does nothing for you anymore

I'm going to try get a placement.
If i can't I'm basically screwed then. 😔
(edited 9 months ago)

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