How does this work for Oxford?
I really want to apply to Oxford but I’m worried that the college I want to apply to won’t be able to cover my course as there’s no fellows who teach all the modules/parts of the course as they’re all at other colleges. What will happen if I get into that college?
Reply 1
Have they got vacancies for your course in the college checker? They move you to other colleges for modules if your college doesn't have a tutor who specialises in them.
Reply 2
You also get taught by post grads who are not professors
Reply 3
What course and college do you want to apply to? At Uni level, no academic knows everything about their subject. They're more likely to know a lot about a very niche topic. The college tutors will usually teach the first years, but in 2nd yr and beyond tutorials will more likely be given by tutors in other colleges if it's a topic your own college tutor lacks expertise. Oxford ensures you're only taught by the best people.
Reply 4
College tutors arrange swaps for things beyond their expertise. But to be honest at first year level most tutors can teach pretty broadly.
A college would not offer a course if they didn’t have someone competent enough to support the teaching and to arrange swaps for what they can’t cover.
A college would not offer a course if they didn’t have someone competent enough to support the teaching and to arrange swaps for what they can’t cover.
Reply 5
Original post
by xyz1234567College tutors arrange swaps for things beyond their expertise. But to be honest at first year level most tutors can teach pretty broadly.
A college would not offer a course if they didn’t have someone competent enough to support the teaching and to arrange swaps for what they can’t cover.
A college would not offer a course if they didn’t have someone competent enough to support the teaching and to arrange swaps for what they can’t cover.
But that’s the thing I’m worried about. The fact that it’s the college tutors organising the swaps rather than someone more neutral like the faculty. Can’t there be a case of, for instance, two colleges not getting along and then refusing to tutor students from the other college?
Reply 6
Why would you assume college tutors would be less neutral than academics who work at the faculty? Or more likely to get into petty disputes and hold grudges than academics at a centralised faculty? The faculty isn’t an algorithm, if the faculty arranges teaching, this still means that a senior academic is deciding who should teach what and to whom. In the case of Oxford, the senior academics in the Faculty are the same people as the college tutors, just wearing a slightly different hat.
A tutor’s job is to do the best for their students, and this will be overseen by the Senior Tutor at that college who keeps track of who is teaching the students at that college and on what basis. Tutors are senior and professional academic staff and take their responsibilities pretty seriously. Tutors are also contractually required to do a certain amount of teaching - they can’t just say “oh I only taught 2 hours a week this term because I haven’t been willing to speak to anyone who goes to the same college as Professor X teaches in since he slighted me at a conference last year”.
Also, unless you are applying for a tiny subject, Oxford faculties are huge, especially when you add the many talented early career academics, junior research fellowship holders, and other post-docs and post-graduated around. It’s just not plausible that there is only one person who can teach a certain course and if there were, it would be made crystal clear to them that part of their teaching duties would be to teach anyone who wants to take that course. College tutors aren’t a law to themselves, they are still accountable both to their colleges and their faculties.
A tutor’s job is to do the best for their students, and this will be overseen by the Senior Tutor at that college who keeps track of who is teaching the students at that college and on what basis. Tutors are senior and professional academic staff and take their responsibilities pretty seriously. Tutors are also contractually required to do a certain amount of teaching - they can’t just say “oh I only taught 2 hours a week this term because I haven’t been willing to speak to anyone who goes to the same college as Professor X teaches in since he slighted me at a conference last year”.
Also, unless you are applying for a tiny subject, Oxford faculties are huge, especially when you add the many talented early career academics, junior research fellowship holders, and other post-docs and post-graduated around. It’s just not plausible that there is only one person who can teach a certain course and if there were, it would be made crystal clear to them that part of their teaching duties would be to teach anyone who wants to take that course. College tutors aren’t a law to themselves, they are still accountable both to their colleges and their faculties.
Reply 7
Original post
by xyz1234567Why would you assume college tutors would be less neutral than academics who work at the faculty? Or more likely to get into petty disputes and hold grudges than academics at a centralised faculty? The faculty isn’t an algorithm, if the faculty arranges teaching, this still means that a senior academic is deciding who should teach what and to whom. In the case of Oxford, the senior academics in the Faculty are the same people as the college tutors, just wearing a slightly different hat.
A tutor’s job is to do the best for their students, and this will be overseen by the Senior Tutor at that college who keeps track of who is teaching the students at that college and on what basis. Tutors are senior and professional academic staff and take their responsibilities pretty seriously. Tutors are also contractually required to do a certain amount of teaching - they can’t just say “oh I only taught 2 hours a week this term because I haven’t been willing to speak to anyone who goes to the same college as Professor X teaches in since he slighted me at a conference last year”.
Also, unless you are applying for a tiny subject, Oxford faculties are huge, especially when you add the many talented early career academics, junior research fellowship holders, and other post-docs and post-graduated around. It’s just not plausible that there is only one person who can teach a certain course and if there were, it would be made crystal clear to them that part of their teaching duties would be to teach anyone who wants to take that course. College tutors aren’t a law to themselves, they are still accountable both to their colleges and their faculties.
A tutor’s job is to do the best for their students, and this will be overseen by the Senior Tutor at that college who keeps track of who is teaching the students at that college and on what basis. Tutors are senior and professional academic staff and take their responsibilities pretty seriously. Tutors are also contractually required to do a certain amount of teaching - they can’t just say “oh I only taught 2 hours a week this term because I haven’t been willing to speak to anyone who goes to the same college as Professor X teaches in since he slighted me at a conference last year”.
Also, unless you are applying for a tiny subject, Oxford faculties are huge, especially when you add the many talented early career academics, junior research fellowship holders, and other post-docs and post-graduated around. It’s just not plausible that there is only one person who can teach a certain course and if there were, it would be made crystal clear to them that part of their teaching duties would be to teach anyone who wants to take that course. College tutors aren’t a law to themselves, they are still accountable both to their colleges and their faculties.
So, basically what I want to know is if I’m choosing a college to apply to within the next few days, are the people who show up on the college webpage for my subjects the people who will be the main people to teach me and the main academics I get to know even if I’m taught by other college staff? Meaning, is it like they always root for their own college students and have a closer relationship with them than other college students?
I just want to benefit from the tutorial system and get to know the academics really well like my school teachers and I want to pick the ones that I most want to teach me or to be the ones organising everything for me so I interact with them a lot.
Reply 8
Yes in theory the people on the website would be your main tutors.
However bear in mind that people may get new jobs, get a major grant that takes them out of teaching for 3 years, have a baby, get sick, etc: you can’t guarantee that you’ll be taught by them. But if that happens, the college will hire someone else well qualified to replace them. And you will form good and strong relationships with whoever ends up teaching you - probably stronger than at school because you are being taught in much smaller groups and also engaging with them as an adult rather than being treated as a child. And many people end up with really strong relationships with tutors at other colleges because they bond over a shared love of a niche specialism.
So I wouldn’t fixate on the individuals who’ll be teaching you when choosing a college as they may change. There are other factors to consider like location, type of accommodation, size of cohort, green spaces, which are likely to vary more between colleges.
And also don’t forget that about a quarter of offer holders get an offer from a college they didn’t apply to and nearly always end up thinking it’s much better than the one they did apply to. You need to treat it as a preference rather than a choice.
However bear in mind that people may get new jobs, get a major grant that takes them out of teaching for 3 years, have a baby, get sick, etc: you can’t guarantee that you’ll be taught by them. But if that happens, the college will hire someone else well qualified to replace them. And you will form good and strong relationships with whoever ends up teaching you - probably stronger than at school because you are being taught in much smaller groups and also engaging with them as an adult rather than being treated as a child. And many people end up with really strong relationships with tutors at other colleges because they bond over a shared love of a niche specialism.
So I wouldn’t fixate on the individuals who’ll be teaching you when choosing a college as they may change. There are other factors to consider like location, type of accommodation, size of cohort, green spaces, which are likely to vary more between colleges.
And also don’t forget that about a quarter of offer holders get an offer from a college they didn’t apply to and nearly always end up thinking it’s much better than the one they did apply to. You need to treat it as a preference rather than a choice.
Reply 9
Original post
by AnonymousSo, basically what I want to know is if I’m choosing a college to apply to within the next few days, are the people who show up on the college webpage for my subjects the people who will be the main people to teach me and the main academics I get to know even if I’m taught by other college staff? Meaning, is it like they always root for their own college students and have a closer relationship with them than other college students?
I just want to benefit from the tutorial system and get to know the academics really well like my school teachers and I want to pick the ones that I most want to teach me or to be the ones organising everything for me so I interact with them a lot.
I just want to benefit from the tutorial system and get to know the academics really well like my school teachers and I want to pick the ones that I most want to teach me or to be the ones organising everything for me so I interact with them a lot.
Grow up. Did you pick you school based on whether or not the teachers liked you? You didn't know them and they didn't know you.
They are all experts in their field. It doesn't matter if they like you or not. There's not some weird bias where tutors in New College loath St Annes because it's a different college. You do realise that the tutors move in & out of Oxford and between colleges depending upon where the research opportunities are?
Reply 10
Are you applying for law any chance?
With my own students I can't remember if I taught them last term or last year or if they are simply someone from tennis. They only specialise in the 2nd & 3rd year and then I might teach them in Oct 23 for module and not see them again until they are revising for it in May 25 for their finals, if I haven't already moved on.
There is certainly no bias in the marking of collections or finals.
With my own students I can't remember if I taught them last term or last year or if they are simply someone from tennis. They only specialise in the 2nd & 3rd year and then I might teach them in Oct 23 for module and not see them again until they are revising for it in May 25 for their finals, if I haven't already moved on.
There is certainly no bias in the marking of collections or finals.
Reply 11
OP, Oxford really isn't Hogwarts.You get farmed out for tutes all over the place. That's part of the fun. See how the weirdos in the other colleges rock and roll. You're allowed to go outside your college and wander about, you know. They're not jails. OK, Keble probably is, but hey. Just kidding, Keblistas!
Reply 12
Original post
by AnonymousBut that’s the thing I’m worried about. The fact that it’s the college tutors organising the swaps rather than someone more neutral like the faculty. Can’t there be a case of, for instance, two colleges not getting along and then refusing to tutor students from the other college?
You make Oxford sound like Strictly, or Battle Royale. T'aint so. Balliol and Trinity *****-slap one another 24/7 365. All the other colleges be chill.
Reply 13
Original post
by AnonymousSo, basically what I want to know is if I’m choosing a college to apply to within the next few days, are the people who show up on the college webpage for my subjects the people who will be the main people to teach me and the main academics I get to know even if I’m taught by other college staff? Meaning, is it like they always root for their own college students and have a closer relationship with them than other college students?
I just want to benefit from the tutorial system and get to know the academics really well like my school teachers and I want to pick the ones that I most want to teach me or to be the ones organising everything for me so I interact with them a lot.
I just want to benefit from the tutorial system and get to know the academics really well like my school teachers and I want to pick the ones that I most want to teach me or to be the ones organising everything for me so I interact with them a lot.
@xyz1234567 is correct. The tutors for your subject at your college will most likely (but not always) be the faculty members that you are most familiar with. In addition to teaching responsibilities, they also have pastoral duties for all students studying their subject at their college (e.g. students are usually expected to move out at the end of 8th week each term but because Law Moderations take place in the 9th week of Hilary term, my tutors helped all of us apply for and obtain reimbursement for an extended stay without us even having to ask, they also wrote my references and gave me advice when I was applying for Masters programmes and jobs).
That being said, arrangements do change from time to time for all sorts of reasons beyond your control. For example, one of my tutors went on sabbatical during my 1st year, so the 2nd years that year had a different tutor for the core papers which he usually teaches (Land Law and Trusts). You can also form bonds with tutors at other colleges (e.g. because you have a shared academic interest) - my spouse was a research assistant for a professor who was not from his college.
Colleges will necessarily have teaching arrangements with other colleges because it's simply not feasible for each college to have a subject matter expert in each field of study. To me, this is a good thing because it means you are always being taught by someone who actually knows the relevant field.
From my experience, tutors do take their teaching responsibilities seriously regardless of which college a student is from. My Criminal Law/ Jurisprudence tutor was from Worcester but she certainly did not go easy on us Brasenose students during tutorials, and she definitely put a lot of care and effort into marking our essays and giving us feedback.
I really think that you are overthinking this.
Reply 14
Original post
by mishieru07@xyz1234567 is correct. The tutors for your subject at your college will most likely (but not always) be the faculty members that you are most familiar with. In addition to teaching responsibilities, they also have pastoral duties for all students studying their subject at their college (e.g. students are usually expected to move out at the end of 8th week each term but because Law Moderations take place in the 9th week of Hilary term, my tutors helped all of us apply for and obtain reimbursement for an extended stay without us even having to ask, they also wrote my references and gave me advice when I was applying for Masters programmes and jobs).
That being said, arrangements do change from time to time for all sorts of reasons beyond your control. For example, one of my tutors went on sabbatical during my 1st year, so the 2nd years that year had a different tutor for the core papers which he usually teaches (Land Law and Trusts). You can also form bonds with tutors at other colleges (e.g. because you have a shared academic interest) - my spouse was a research assistant for a professor who was not from his college.
Colleges will necessarily have teaching arrangements with other colleges because it's simply not feasible for each college to have a subject matter expert in each field of study. To me, this is a good thing because it means you are always being taught by someone who actually knows the relevant field.
From my experience, tutors do take their teaching responsibilities seriously regardless of which college a student is from. My Criminal Law/ Jurisprudence tutor was from Worcester but she certainly did not go easy on us Brasenose students during tutorials, and she definitely put a lot of care and effort into marking our essays and giving us feedback.
I really think that you are overthinking this.
That being said, arrangements do change from time to time for all sorts of reasons beyond your control. For example, one of my tutors went on sabbatical during my 1st year, so the 2nd years that year had a different tutor for the core papers which he usually teaches (Land Law and Trusts). You can also form bonds with tutors at other colleges (e.g. because you have a shared academic interest) - my spouse was a research assistant for a professor who was not from his college.
Colleges will necessarily have teaching arrangements with other colleges because it's simply not feasible for each college to have a subject matter expert in each field of study. To me, this is a good thing because it means you are always being taught by someone who actually knows the relevant field.
From my experience, tutors do take their teaching responsibilities seriously regardless of which college a student is from. My Criminal Law/ Jurisprudence tutor was from Worcester but she certainly did not go easy on us Brasenose students during tutorials, and she definitely put a lot of care and effort into marking our essays and giving us feedback.
I really think that you are overthinking this.
Year 1? 40 hours or more? Did you spend more time in the Brasenose College Law library or the The Bodleian Law Library?
Year 2? 40 hours or more a week?
Year 3? 60 hours or more a week, especially near Finals time?
What was your experience with the degree overall? Would you re-apply to Oxford again or consider Cambridge due to the intensity of the FHS exams in Year 3? 🙂
How was your BCL application? Did you expect to get accepted? Did you also apply to Cambridge? LSE? UCL? KCL? Durham?
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Reply 15
Original post
by thegeek888So how gruelling was the workload?
Year 1? 40 hours or more? Did you spend more time in the Brasenose College Law library or the The Bodleian Law Library?
Year 2? 40 hours or more a week?
Year 3? 60 hours or more a week, especially near Finals time?
What was your experience with the degree overall? Would you re-apply to Oxford again or consider Cambridge due to the intensity of the FHS exams in Year 3? 🙂
How was your BCL application? Did you expect to get accepted? Did you also apply to Cambridge? LSE? UCL? KCL? Durham?
Year 1? 40 hours or more? Did you spend more time in the Brasenose College Law library or the The Bodleian Law Library?
Year 2? 40 hours or more a week?
Year 3? 60 hours or more a week, especially near Finals time?
What was your experience with the degree overall? Would you re-apply to Oxford again or consider Cambridge due to the intensity of the FHS exams in Year 3? 🙂
How was your BCL application? Did you expect to get accepted? Did you also apply to Cambridge? LSE? UCL? KCL? Durham?
More than you could handle, bro.
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