Entry criteria for AS maths Watch

This discussion is closed.
John Porcella
Badges:
#21
Report 17 years ago
#21
"steve.wren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]> Reading this weeks TES I noticed an article discussing that QCA are considering restricting AS[/q1]
[q1]> maths entry to those who gain a B (or above) at GCSE Maths.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> This is to reflect the difficulty of AS Maths compared to other subjects where the QCA criteria is[/q1]
[q1]> a C (or above) at GCSE.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> The effect of this change would reduce the maximum number of entries from 350,000 to 65,000 per[/q1]
[q1]> year (if I recall correctly).[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Surely when the purpose of Curriculum 2000 and the new AS levels was to increase the breadth of[/q1]
[q1]> study by students this is a backward step ...[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> or are students being directed to the new "AS level in Use of Maths" as a breadth course with AS[/q1]
[q1]> Maths being only for the most able?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Steve[/q1]

Not sure that the examination boards would be so keen as it might mean a drop in fee income!

--
MESSAGE ENDS. John Porcella
0
Jo L
Badges:
#22
Report 17 years ago
#22
"John Porcella" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

[q2]> > or are students being directed to the new "AS level in Use of Maths" as[/q2]
a
[q2]> > breadth course with AS Maths being only for the most able?[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > Steve[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Not sure that the examination boards would be so keen as it might mean a drop in fee income![/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

But if they switched the the AS USe of Maths then surely they would still get the
income?????????????

Jo
0
John Porcella
Badges:
#23
Report 17 years ago
#23
"Jo L" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> "John Porcella" <[email protected]> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]> news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q3]> > > or are students being directed to the new "AS level in Use of Maths"[/q3]
as
[q1]> a[/q1]
[q3]> > > breadth course with AS Maths being only for the most able?[/q3]
[q3]> > >[/q3]
[q3]> > > Steve[/q3]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > Not sure that the examination boards would be so keen as it might mean a drop in fee income![/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> But if they switched the the AS USe of Maths then surely they would still get the[/q1]
[q1]> income?????????????[/q1]

But would people switch?

--
MESSAGE ENDS. John Porcella
0
Ian Johnston
Badges:
#24
Report 17 years ago
#24
On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:45:55, "steve.wren" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]: Reading this weeks TES I noticed an article discussing that QCA are considering restricting AS[/q1]
[q1]: maths entry to those who gain a B (or above) at GCSE Maths.[/q1]

That seems particularly odd when you consider that kids capable of doing well in A/s or A level
maths shouldn't be wasting their time with the GCSE in the first place...

Ian
0
Peter Windridge
Badges:
#25
Report 17 years ago
#25
"Ian Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... ...
[q1]> That seems particularly odd when you consider that kids capable of doing well in A/s or A level[/q1]
[q1]> maths shouldn't be wasting their time with the GCSE in the first place...[/q1]
...

Not sure about this. I didn't do too well in GCSE maths but have got
100/100 in two maths modules so far, 96/100 in another and hoping for
101/100 in at least 2 of the last modules, maybe 3 if the UMS is friendly .
0
Eatmorepies
Badges:
#26
Report 17 years ago
#26
Ian Johnston <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]> On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:45:55, "steve.wren" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> : Reading this weeks TES I noticed an article discussing that QCA are considering restricting AS[/q1]
[q1]> : maths entry to those who gain a B (or above)[/q1]
at
[q1]> : GCSE Maths.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> That seems particularly odd when you consider that kids capable of doing well in A/s or A level[/q1]
[q1]> maths shouldn't be wasting their time with the GCSE in the first place...[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Ian[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Depends.

If a student gets a C at GCSE because they are bright but lazy they can go on to do very well at A
level - assuming they mend their ways.

If a student works their socks off for a C at GCSE they will find A level a bit challenging and may
not do well at A level.

Having said that; people change. It's a bit like the old 11 plus system consigning kids to the
reject heap at age 11 - a bad thing. We can predict some sort of trend (average/general prediction)
based on previous results but we must allow that people develop abilities differently and so keep an
open mind.

Having said that; we shouldn't encourage students falsely.

I'm getting a bit bogged down here so I shall stop.

John
0
Ian Johnston
Badges:
#27
Report 17 years ago
#27
On Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:30:53, "Eatmorepies" <[email protected] t> wrote:

[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: Ian Johnston <[email protected]> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: > That seems particularly odd when you consider that kids capable of doing well in A/s or A level[/q1]
[q1]: > maths shouldn't be wasting their time with the GCSE in the first place...[/q1]

[q1]: If a student gets a C at GCSE because they are bright but lazy they can go on to do very well at A[/q1]
[q1]: level - assuming they mend their ways.[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: If a student works their socks off for a C at GCSE they will find A level a bit challenging and[/q1]
[q1]: may not do well at A level.[/q1]

I am not knocking GCSE's for those who a) need the encouragement it brings or b) haven't decided
what they're going on to do or c) are planning to leave school immediately afterwards. But given
that, almost without exception. kids who get 10+ A's or better are going to go on to do a) A-levels
and b) degrees, after both of which no one will care about their GCSE results, is it really worth
the stress and the loss of a term's worth of teaching?

Ian
0
Steve.Wren
Badges:
#28
Report 17 years ago
#28
[q1]> I am not knocking GCSE's for those who a) need the encouragement it brings or b) haven't decided[/q1]
[q1]> what they're going on to do or c) are planning to leave school immediately afterwards. But given[/q1]
[q1]> that, almost without exception. kids who get 10+ A's or better are going to go on to do a)[/q1]
[q1]> A-levels and b) degrees, after both of which no one will care about their GCSE results, is it[/q1]
[q1]> really worth the stress and the loss of a term's worth of teaching?[/q1]

I recently read a report (can't recall where now I'm afraid) which said that "big" employers were
now starting to use GCSE's as an indicator of an applicants suitability *above* the A level grades
they received.

The reasoning wasn't given!

Steve
0
Ian Johnston
Badges:
#29
Report 17 years ago
#29
On Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:53:15, "steve.wren" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]: I recently read a report (can't recall where now I'm afraid) which said that "big" employers were[/q1]
[q1]: now starting to use GCSE's as an indicator of an applicants suitability *above* the A level grades[/q1]
[q1]: they received.[/q1]

Perhaps they've given up on the idea of A-levels as an indicator of quality and they're going for
GCSE quantity instead?

Ian
0
Martina
Badges:
#30
Report 17 years ago
#30
[q1]> : I recently read a report (can't recall where now I'm afraid) which said[/q1]
that
[q1]> : "big" employers were now starting to use GCSE's as an indicator of an applicants suitability[/q1]
[q1]> : *above* the A level grades they received.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Perhaps they've given up on the idea of A-levels as an indicator of quality and they're going for[/q1]
[q1]> GCSE quantity instead?[/q1]

Someone who inteviewed people for a job told me she used GCSEs as an indicator of how the
individual can cope with a variety of subjects. In A-levels there are usually fewer subjects and
more specialisation, whereas in GCSEs you have to show how you can perform across a wide spectrum
of subjects.

M.
0
Davido
Badges:
#31
Report 17 years ago
#31
[q1]> : I recently read a report (can't recall where now I'm afraid) which said that "big" employers[/q1]
[q1]> : were now starting to use GCSE's as an indicator of an applicants suitability *above* the A level[/q1]
[q1]> : grades they received.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Perhaps they've given up on the idea of A-levels as an indicator of quality and they're going for[/q1]
[q1]> GCSE quantity instead?[/q1]

As usual, nobody will agree with me, but I believe that GCSEs are a much better indicator of how
good you are than A Levels.

They show much better all-roundedness - subjects like GCSE English & Literature are rather
challenging to get the top grade... whilst science subjects show ability to apply knowledge etc...

I'm going to go so far as to say that GCSEs test your understanding more than at A Level, which is
often simply regurgitation of knowledge. The AS Geography coasts module, there was a 10 mark essay
on sand dunes. Didn't understand a word of it but memorised and regurgitated, hence getting 90+.
Similar for Chemistry essays. Whereas GCSE questions test both ability to memorise and then you're
able to apply the knowledge by "Why" questions. The pre-release material for A Level synoptic papers
makes it possible to memorise to some extent in some of the "decision making" modules.

Additionally, someone who gets AAAA at A Level could realistically have anything from 2A*s 8As up to
12A*s at GCSE. Someone who gets an A* OR an A in the GCSE has a good chance, if they apply
themselves, to get an A in the subject at A Level. So the quantity indicator of GCSEs can be a much
better indicator of potential than A Levels.
0
The Technical M
Badges:
#32
Report 17 years ago
#32
Ian Johnston wrote:

[q1]> On Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:53:15, "steve.wren" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> : I recently read a report (can't recall where now I'm afraid) which said that "big" employers[/q1]
[q1]> : were now starting to use GCSE's as an indicator of an applicants suitability *above* the A level[/q1]
[q1]> : grades they received.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Perhaps they've given up on the idea of A-levels as an indicator of quality and they're going for[/q1]
[q1]> GCSE quantity instead?[/q1]

Thats gone from bad to worse. GCSEs are such dumbed down and trivialised exams.
0
Gaurav Sharma
Badges:
#33
Report 17 years ago
#33
"Davido" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q2]> > : I recently read a report (can't recall where now I'm afraid) which[/q2]
said that
[q2]> > : "big" employers were now starting to use GCSE's as an indicator of an applicants suitability[/q2]
[q2]> > : *above* the A level grades they received.[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > Perhaps they've given up on the idea of A-levels as an indicator of quality and they're going[/q2]
[q2]> > for GCSE quantity instead?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> As usual, nobody will agree with me, but I believe that GCSEs are a much better indicator of how[/q1]
[q1]> good you are than A Levels.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> They show much better all-roundedness - subjects like GCSE English & Literature are rather[/q1]
[q1]> challenging to get the top grade... whilst science subjects show ability to apply knowledge etc...[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I'm going to go so far as to say that GCSEs test your understanding more than at A Level, which is[/q1]
[q1]> often simply regurgitation of knowledge. The AS Geography coasts module, there was a 10 mark essay[/q1]
[q1]> on sand dunes. Didn't understand a word of it but memorised and regurgitated, hence getting 90+.[/q1]
[q1]> Similar for Chemistry essays. Whereas GCSE questions test both ability to memorise and then you're[/q1]
[q1]> able to apply the knowledge by "Why" questions. The pre-release material for A Level synoptic[/q1]
[q1]> papers makes it possible to memorise to some extent in some of the "decision making" modules.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Additionally, someone who gets AAAA at A Level could realistically have anything from 2A*s 8As up[/q1]
[q1]> to 12A*s at GCSE. Someone who gets an A* OR an A in the GCSE has a good chance, if they apply[/q1]
[q1]> themselves, to get an A in the subject at A Level. So the quantity indicator of GCSEs can be a[/q1]
[q1]> much better indicator of potential than A Levels.[/q1]

Sorry, but you talk ****. A-levels may not be that hard, but GCSEs are a joke. You're trying to
compare A*'s in GCSE maths and english with things like A-level further maths and english
literature, it's a deeply flawed argument.

G.Sharma.
0
Chris Share
Badges:
#34
Report 17 years ago
#34
On 7 Jul 2002 18:56:16 -0700s, Davido([email protected]) said...
[q2]>> : I recently read a report (can't recall where now I'm afraid) which said that "big" employers[/q2]
[q2]>> : were now starting to use GCSE's as an indicator of an applicants suitability *above* the A[/q2]
[q2]>> : level grades they received.[/q2]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>> Perhaps they've given up on the idea of A-levels as an indicator of quality and they're going for[/q2]
[q2]>> GCSE quantity instead?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>As usual, nobody will agree with me, but I believe that GCSEs are a much better indicator of how[/q1]
[q1]>good you are than A Levels.[/q1]

I doubt that...

[q1]>They show much better all-roundedness[/q1]

Yes, it's easy to get somewhat blinkered at A-level.

[q1]>I'm going to go so far as to say that GCSEs test your understanding more than at A Level, which is[/q1]
[q1]>often simply regurgitation of knowledge. The AS Geography coasts module, there was a 10 mark essay[/q1]
[q1]>on sand dunes. Didn't understand a word of it but memorised and regurgitated, hence getting 90+.[/q1]
[q1]>Similar for Chemistry essays. Whereas GCSE questions test both ability to memorise and then you're[/q1]
[q1]>able to apply the knowledge by "Why" questions. The pre-release material for A Level synoptic[/q1]
[q1]>papers makes it possible to memorise to some extent in some of the "decision making" modules.[/q1]

I completely disagree with this - just checking, you mean GCSEs in 5th year and A-levels in 7th? I
found that GCSEs and A-levels were both mostly regurgitation, but GCSEs were more so. And you must
have very different synoptics to ours - I had them in both chemistry and physics, and both took
stuff from anywhere in the course and made you think about it a bit. Much more so than the
individual modules.

[q1]>Additionally, someone who gets AAAA at A Level could realistically have anything from 2A*s 8As up[/q1]
[q1]>to 12A*s at GCSE. Someone who gets an A* OR an A in the GCSE has a good chance, if they apply[/q1]
[q1]>themselves, to get an A in the subject at A Level. So the quantity indicator of GCSEs can be a much[/q1]
[q1]>better indicator of potential than A Levels.[/q1]

Someone who gets AAAAA at A-level can have a mix of grades from A* - C at gcse, or they can have
straight A*s. I know people with both of those. However, whatever you think about them at the time,
GCSEs are pretty simple things, compared to what you do later. If you're looking for someone who's
good at maths for example, then you look for As at A-lev, not a bunch of A*s spread over lots of
subjects at GCSE.

Anyway, the two are supposed to be seen in conjunction - GCSEs show more breadth, and A-levels show
(slightly) deeper knowledge.

chris
0
The Technical M
Badges:
#35
Report 17 years ago
#35
martina wrote:

[q2]> > : I recently read a report (can't recall where now I'm afraid) which said[/q2]
[q1]> that[/q1]
[q2]> > : "big" employers were now starting to use GCSE's as an indicator of an applicants suitability[/q2]
[q2]> > : *above* the A level grades they received.[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > Perhaps they've given up on the idea of A-levels as an indicator of quality and they're going[/q2]
[q2]> > for GCSE quantity instead?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Someone who inteviewed people for a job told me she used GCSEs as an indicator of how the[/q1]
[q1]> individual can cope with a variety of subjects. In A-levels there are usually fewer subjects and[/q1]
[q1]> more specialisation, whereas in GCSEs you have to show how you can perform across a wide spectrum[/q1]
[q1]> of subjects.[/q1]

What if one only has a few GCSEs yet they have A levels and a degree ? For a start I have 7 GCSEs
but don't have a language, arts subject or technology subject.
0
The Technical M
Badges:
#36
Report 17 years ago
#36
Davido wrote:

[q2]> > : I recently read a report (can't recall where now I'm afraid) which said that "big" employers[/q2]
[q2]> > : were now starting to use GCSE's as an indicator of an applicants suitability *above* the A[/q2]
[q2]> > : level grades they received.[/q2]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > Perhaps they've given up on the idea of A-levels as an indicator of quality and they're going[/q2]
[q2]> > for GCSE quantity instead?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> As usual, nobody will agree with me, but I believe that GCSEs are a much better indicator of how[/q1]
[q1]> good you are than A Levels.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> They show much better all-roundedness - subjects like GCSE English & Literature are rather[/q1]
[q1]> challenging to get the top grade... whilst science subjects show ability to apply knowledge etc...[/q1]

Same at A level.

[q1]> I'm going to go so far as to say that GCSEs test your understanding more than at A Level, which is[/q1]
[q1]> often simply regurgitation of knowledge.[/q1]

A level science subjects have moved towards applying rather than regurgitating knowledge over the
past 12 or so years.

[q1]> The AS Geography coasts module, there was a 10 mark essay on sand dunes. Didn't understand a word[/q1]
[q1]> of it but memorised and regurgitated, hence getting 90+. Similar for Chemistry essays. Whereas[/q1]
[q1]> GCSE questions test both ability to memorise and then you're able to apply the knowledge by "Why"[/q1]
[q1]> questions.[/q1]

I got a lot of why type questions in my A level chemistry and physics exams. The thing is it depends
on the subject. Are we studying physics or are we studying sociology ?

[q1]> The pre-release material for A Level synoptic papers makes it possible to memorise to some extent[/q1]
[q1]> in some of the "decision making" modules.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Additionally, someone who gets AAAA at A Level could realistically have anything from 2A*s 8As up[/q1]
[q1]> to 12A*s at GCSE.[/q1]

Also depends on the school they attended for GCSEs. As a rule of thumb mediocre or bad GCSEs equal
bad A levels but some excel at a later stage whereas others may get a string of A* at GCSE yet
completely screw up at A level. I have seen it happen several times.

[q1]> Someone who gets an A* OR an A in the GCSE has a good chance, if they apply themselves, to get an[/q1]
[q1]> A in the subject at A Level. So the quantity indicator of GCSEs can be a much better indicator of[/q1]
[q1]> potential than A Levels.[/q1]

This statement is unjustified. For a start A levels are generally harder subjects. I had little
difficulty with GCSEs but found A levels very difficult. Certainly compared to my degree exams in
electronics.
0
Ian Johnston
Badges:
#37
Report 17 years ago
#37
On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:17:07, The Technical Manager <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]: Ian Johnston wrote:[/q1]

[q1]: > Perhaps they've given up on the idea of A-levels as an indicator of quality and they're going[/q1]
[q1]: > for GCSE quantity instead?[/q1]
[q1]:[/q1]
[q1]: Thats gone from bad to worse. GCSEs are such dumbed down and trivialised exams.[/q1]

Yes, well, I can rermeber when we didn't have to do a year of remedial maths (in HE engineering) for
people with Further Maths A at A-level. Halcyon days ...

Ian
0
Martina
Badges:
#38
Report 17 years ago
#38
[q2]> > Someone who inteviewed people for a job told me she used GCSEs as an indicator of how the[/q2]
[q2]> > individual can cope with a variety of subjects. In A-levels there are usually fewer subjects and[/q2]
[q2]> > more specialisation,[/q2]
whereas
[q2]> > in GCSEs you have to show how you can perform across a wide spectrum of subjects.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> What if one only has a few GCSEs yet they have A levels and a degree ? For[/q1]
a
[q1]> start I have 7 GCSEs but don't have a language, arts subject or technology subject.[/q1]

I don't know. I'm not an employer

It might also depend on the job - the interview I was talking about was for the position of a speech
therapist at a centre for adults with learning disabilities. Besides, priorities will vary for
different interviewers/employers.

M.
0
John Porcella
Badges:
#39
Report 17 years ago
#39
"The Technical Manager" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]> martina wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q3]> > > : I recently read a report (can't recall where now I'm afraid) which[/q3]
said
[q2]> > that[/q2]
[q3]> > > : "big" employers were now starting to use GCSE's as an indicator of[/q3]
an
[q3]> > > : applicants suitability *above* the A level grades they received.[/q3]
[q3]> > >[/q3]
[q3]> > > Perhaps they've given up on the idea of A-levels as an indicator of quality and they're going[/q3]
[q3]> > > for GCSE quantity instead?[/q3]
[q2]> >[/q2]
[q2]> > Someone who inteviewed people for a job told me she used GCSEs as an indicator of how the[/q2]
[q2]> > individual can cope with a variety of subjects. In A-levels there are usually fewer subjects and[/q2]
[q2]> > more specialisation,[/q2]
whereas
[q2]> > in GCSEs you have to show how you can perform across a wide spectrum of subjects.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> What if one only has a few GCSEs yet they have A levels and a degree ? For[/q1]
a
[q1]> start I have 7 GCSEs but don't have a language, arts subject or technology subject.[/q1]

Then this could hold you back in certain careers.

--
MESSAGE ENDS. John Porcella
0
Davido
Badges:
#40
Report 17 years ago
#40
[q1]> I completely disagree with this - just checking, you mean GCSEs in 5th year and A-levels in 7th?[/q1]
yep...
[q1]> I found that GCSEs and A-levels were both mostly regurgitation, but GCSEs were more so.[/q1]
Remember you may not be familiar with the new syllabus. For a lot of the AS modules, regurgitation
seemed a lot more evident than at GCSE in my opinion, for both art and science subjects.

[q1]> Someone who gets AAAAA at A-level can have a mix of grades from A* - C at gcse, or they can have[/q1]
[q1]> straight A*s. I know people with both of those.[/q1]
this is exactly my point... but I take into account the next thing you said.

[q1]> <snip[/q1]
0
X
new posts

All the exam results help you need

3,047

people online now

225,530

students helped last year

University open days

  • University of Dundee
    Undergraduate Open Day Undergraduate
    Mon, 26 Aug '19
  • University of Aberdeen
    General Open Day Undergraduate
    Tue, 27 Aug '19
  • Norwich University of the Arts
    Postgraduate (MA) Open Day Postgraduate
    Sat, 31 Aug '19

How are you feeling about GCSE Results Day?

Hopeful (199)
12.7%
Excited (136)
8.68%
Worried (287)
18.32%
Terrified (355)
22.65%
Meh (136)
8.68%
Confused (35)
2.23%
Putting on a brave face (217)
13.85%
Impatient (202)
12.89%

Watched Threads

View All