Maths with Physics at Cambridge?

I have some confusion about existence of the Maths with Physics option with a possible transfer to Natural Sciences after 1st year. While this pdf maths_with_physics.pdf claims that it is possible and I have heard about this from other people, I cannot find it in a lists of available courses and Cambridge Maths Admissions Guide.pdf does not mention any possibility of transfer.

So my question is, where can I find more information about it / who to contact?

some context: I am currently a year 12 student, am interested in pure maths (not applied maths) and in understanding how the world works from science perspective. This kind of can be imagined as an Euler diagram, where I am not interested in the overlap of Maths and Science, but am interested in the non-overlapping parts.

Reply 1

davros

Original post

by Smile_more

I have some confusion about existence of the Maths with Physics option with a possible transfer to Natural Sciences after 1st year. While this pdf maths_with_physics.pdf claims that it is possible and I have heard about this from other people, I cannot find it in a lists of available courses and Cambridge Maths Admissions Guide.pdf does not mention any possibility of transfer.
So my question is, where can I find more information about it / who to contact?
some context: I am currently a year 12 student, am interested in pure maths (not applied maths) and in understanding how the world works from science perspective. This kind of can be imagined as an Euler diagram, where I am not interested in the overlap of Maths and Science, but am interested in the non-overlapping parts.

I'm not a current student, but my starting point for questions like this is usually the standard Undergraduate Course summary page: Mathematics, BA (Hons) and MMath | Undergraduate Study

This specifically refers to the "Maths with Physics" option, as well as the choice between continuing with Maths or switching to Physics (which in practice means Natural Sciences since Cambridge doesn't have a "Physics degree" as such).

The second document you link to looks a little out of date to me - for example, the final section refers to three STEP papers, whereas these have now been reduced to just two!

I'm not really sure how to interpret your final paragraph - you'd be doing some "applied" maths even if you just followed the Maths Tripos, and if you switched to the Physics pathway within NatSci you'd be dealing with a fair chunk of Maths content. But maybe that's just me being a bit slow tonight :smile:

Reply 2

Muu9

Original post

by davros

I'm not a current student, but my starting point for questions like this is usually the standard Undergraduate Course summary page: Mathematics, BA (Hons) and MMath | Undergraduate Study
This specifically refers to the "Maths with Physics" option, as well as the choice between continuing with Maths or switching to Physics (which in practice means Natural Sciences since Cambridge doesn't have a "Physics degree" as such).
The second document you link to looks a little out of date to me - for example, the final section refers to three STEP papers, whereas these have now been reduced to just two!
I'm not really sure how to interpret your final paragraph - you'd be doing some "applied" maths even if you just followed the Maths Tripos, and if you switched to the Physics pathway within NatSci you'd be dealing with a fair chunk of Maths content. But maybe that's just me being a bit slow tonight :smile:

Cambridge maths students have the flexibility to take a course load of all pure maths courses from second year onwards.

Natsci physics (specifically the two physics modules in year 2) generally do require students to take the natsci year 2 maths modules alongside them , and that is an applied maths module, at least relative to the maths degree - there are still lots of "show that" problems (e.g. here is the first example sheet from the hardest *first* year natsci maths option - the main problems are almost all proof problems)

OP, see if the college(s) you're considering allow maths students to sit in on natsci lectures or vice versa (they should, I've heard multiple people say this is possible).

Apparently there is precedent of a student outside maths taking maths papers for credit: https://old.reddit.com/r/cambridge_uni/comments/1nldf7p/is_it_possible_to_do_cambridge_part_iii_from_an/nf4ownd/ although this would depend on your college's DoS being open to such an arrangement.

Reply 3

melancollege

Universities Forum Helper

As a first-year ordinary Maths student, you take four courses each term, eight in total. They are:
> Michaelmas (Autumn term): Vectors & Matrices, Groups, Differential Equations and Numbers & Sets
> Lent (Spring term): Vector Calculus, Analysis, Probability and Dynamics & Relativity
Easter term is kept for revision and exams.

As a first-year Natural Sciences student, you also take four modules each term (but they are the same for both terms). They could, for example, be Physics, Chemistry, Earth Sciences and Maths. It is mandatory to take a Maths option.

If you take Maths with Physics, you take three of the four courses each term that the other Maths students take and the Physics course from Natural Science. So you would take:
> Michaelmas (Autumn term): Vectors & Matrices, Groups, Differential Equations and the Physics part of Natural Sciences
> Lent (Spring term): Vector Calculus, Analysis, Probability and the Physics part of Natural Sciences

At the end of your first year, you have two options:
1) Carry on with Maths: At this point you are indistinguishable from the other Maths students and the fact that you have done Maths with Physics is irrelevant. You get a Maths degree, just like the other mathmos.
2) Carry on with Physics within Natural Science: Generally, you are just like any other Physicist from the Natural Science course except you have less choice as to your later years' modules, which makes sense as you haven't done any of the other ones except Physics. You get a Physics degree, just like the other Natural Scientists.

You are not expected to know for certain which option you would like to take at the point you apply. This comes much later when you're already a student.

That is to say, Maths with Physics only affects your first year. The reason it does not come up as a unique course is because you apply to it as a Maths student. You would select it as an option just after applying but before interviews. You would be expected to meet the academic conditions of a Maths student, including meeting STEP conditions.

Side note: The distinction between pure and applied maths is very different at university level than at A-Level. Most of the A-Level Maths "Pure" you learn is actually applied at university. I must admit, I find their misuse of the term really confusing. It is something to be aware of.

Edit: You can see on page 7 of https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/my-cambridge-application-home-students.pdf the form that you would fill in from which you select either Mathematics or Mathematics with Physics

(edited 3 months ago)

Reply 4

Smile_more

Original post

by melancollege

As a first-year ordinary Maths student, you take four courses each term, eight in total. They are:
> Michaelmas (Autumn term): Vectors & Matrices, Groups, Differential Equations and Numbers & Sets
> Lent (Spring term): Vector Calculus, Analysis, Probability and Dynamics & Relativity
Easter term is kept for revision and exams.
As a first-year Natural Sciences student, you also take four modules each term (but they are the same for both terms). They could, for example, be Physics, Chemistry, Earth Sciences and Maths. It is mandatory to take a Maths option.
If you take Maths with Physics, you take three of the four courses each term that the other Maths students take and the Physics course from Natural Science. So you would take:
> Michaelmas (Autumn term): Vectors & Matrices, Groups, Differential Equations and the Physics part of Natural Sciences
> Lent (Spring term): Vector Calculus, Analysis, Probability and the Physics part of Natural Sciences
At the end of your first year, you have two options:
1) Carry on with Maths: At this point you are indistinguishable from the other Maths students and the fact that you have done Maths with Physics is irrelevant. You get a Maths degree, just like the other mathmos.
2) Carry on with Physics within Natural Science: Generally, you are just like any other Physicist from the Natural Science course except you have less choice as to your later years' modules, which makes sense as you haven't done any of the other ones except Physics. You get a Physics degree, just like the other Natural Scientists.
You are not expected to know for certain which option you would like to take at the point you apply. This comes much later when you're already a student.
That is to say, Maths with Physics only affects your first year. The reason it does not come up as a unique course is because you apply to it as a Maths student. You would select it as an option just after applying but before interviews. You would be expected to meet the academic conditions of a Maths student, including meeting STEP conditions.
Side note: The distinction between pure and applied maths is very different at university level than at A-Level. Most of the A-Level Maths "Pure" you learn is actually applied at university. I must admit, I find their misuse of the term really confusing. It is something to be aware of.
Edit: You can see on page 7 of https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/my-cambridge-application-home-students.pdf the form that you would fill in from which you select either Mathematics or Mathematics with Physics

Thank you for the response, it helped a lot!
Could you please tell me more about the restrictions to later years modules if the Natural Science is chosen after year 1 if you know about them?
Also, do you think the chances of getting in would be higher for Maths or for Natural Science? For someone strong on maths achievements (eg. Silver in BMO1, Merit in BMO2), but not nearly as strong on science ones(eg. no BPhO, only silvers in physics challenges; bronze in UKChemistry round 1)? - While the acceptance rate to Nat Sci is higher and maths is still going to be valued, I am not sure how much.

Reply 5

melancollege

Universities Forum Helper

Original post

by Smile_more

Essentially the restrictions are as you'd expect: you have to carry on with Physics. I'm not 100% sure as I didn't study Natural Sciences but I think you'd be expected to take Physics A, Physics B and Maths in your second year, and then Physics in your final year, perhaps maybe Astrophysics. You wouldn't have as much flexibility as a student who had also studied, say, Chemistry and Earth Science modules in first year as well, as they could also study Chemistry and Earth Science in later years if they wanted.
It is hard to say which is easier to get into and that will depend a lot on how good your maths is. If you are able to pass STEP, that is usually the biggest hurdle for Maths students.