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LNAT LAW essay first attempt any feedback much appreciated.

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Reply 20

Original post
by Muttley79
Of course it does by your comment about the burkha.


what do you mean?

Reply 21

Original post
by calummackenzie08
what do you mean?

Sorry if you can't understand how the non-mention of the burkha and a bikini are related then you need to work on your logic.

Reply 22

Original post
by Muttley79
Sorry if you can't understand how the non-mention of the burkha and a bikini are related then you need to work on your logic.


i understand that neither are explicitly mentioned. in my essay i made 4 points, that the burkha is supported by the Quran, which adds religious value to it. that the bikini is not supported by the bible, meaning there is no religious aspect to it. that the Bible does not prohibit the covering of the face. and that the Quran does prohibit the immodest exposure of the female body in public. why is everyone who responds to this post being so condescending 😂

Reply 23

Original post
by calummackenzie08
i understand that neither are explicitly mentioned. in my essay i made 4 points, that the burkha is supported by the Quran, which adds religious value to it. that the bikini is not supported by the bible, meaning there is no religious aspect to it. that the Bible does not prohibit the covering of the face. and that the Quran does prohibit the immodest exposure of the female body in public. why is everyone who responds to this post being so condescending 😂

People are all being honest - it's a weak essay - a marker has said it, a lawyer has said it ... your points are logically flawed.

Reply 24

Original post
by Muttley79
People are all being honest - it's a weak essay - a marker has said it, a lawyer has said it ... your points are logically flawed.


yeah i have no problem with the criticism of it- i agree that it is weak. there are ways to communicate this criticism without being so rude. “any answer that reads like a wild argument with a mate at a bar” “you’re applying for an ACADEMIC degree” “flashy and superficial” “Fail.” all seem overly harsh when i just asked for some help with my first attempt. i’m not sure if either the marker or lawyer would speak like this if someone asked them for help in real life.

Reply 25

Original post
by calummackenzie08
Well I think we have both missed eachothers points. I wasn’t claiming that the burkha cannot offend christianity, merely that since it is not mentioned in the Bible, there are no sufficient grounds to claim that it is offensive, purely from a religious standpoint. Whereas clothing such as a bikini is explicitly stated as being offensive in the Quran.

No, it isn't.

You are in a hole. Stop digging.

Your assumptions about Islam and Christianity are mistaken.

The LNAT essay is more about analytical approach than content, but steer clear of subjects about which you are ill-informed. Your essay projects ignorance of the subject matter.

Reply 26

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
No, it isn't.
You are in a hole. Stop digging.
Your assumptions about Islam and Christianity are mistaken.
The LNAT essay is more about analytical approach than content, but steer clear of subjects about which you are ill-informed. Your essay projects ignorance of the subject matter.


please can you explain what points are wrong, i’m sure you are right as i am no expert of the topic, but it would be much more helpful to know specifically what points or claims are incorrect. thank you.

Reply 27

Original post
by calummackenzie08
i understand that neither are explicitly mentioned. in my essay i made 4 points, that the burkha is supported by the Quran, which adds religious value to it. that the bikini is not supported by the bible, meaning there is no religious aspect to it. that the Bible does not prohibit the covering of the face. and that the Quran does prohibit the immodest exposure of the female body in public. why is everyone who responds to this post being so condescending 😂

Responders are applying rigour, not condescension. The study and practice of law require rigour. Soft pedalling won't help you. The "well done, everyone!" approach doesn't work at elite universities or in the legal profession.

Reply 28

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
Responders are applying rigour, not condescension. The study and practice of law require rigour. Soft pedalling won't help you. The "well done, everyone!" approach doesn't work at elite universities or in the legal profession.

right, i understand that. but i am not a lawyer, nor do i study law. i am 16. trying to get into uni.

Reply 29

Original post
by calummackenzie08
yeah i have no problem with the criticism of it- i agree that it is weak. there are ways to communicate this criticism without being so rude. “any answer that reads like a wild argument with a mate at a bar” “you’re applying for an ACADEMIC degree” “flashy and superficial” “Fail.” all seem overly harsh when i just asked for some help with my first attempt. i’m not sure if either the marker or lawyer would speak like this if someone asked them for help in real life.

I would speak exactly like this face to face in real life.

Stiffy Byng is a persona on a website. She does not exist. But behind the persona is a lawyer experienced in training other lawyers and in teaching law at universities.

Behind the persona of Muttley79 is a senior school teacher experienced in preparing students for competitive universities.

McGinger is experienced in university work. And so on.

Nobody is attacking you as a person. People are critiquing your essay, robustly.

Academic law is a demanding intellectual discipline. Practical law is the theatre of blood (but with knock knock jokes).

If you wish to take either or both of those paths, nobody is forcing you to do so, but, to be blunt, toughen up!

Reply 30

Original post
by calummackenzie08
please can you explain what points are wrong, i’m sure you are right as i am no expert of the topic, but it would be much more helpful to know specifically what points or claims are incorrect. thank you.

I shall explain tomorrow. Right now, I am busy lawyering.

People are trying to help.

Fist bumping, and saying "You got this!" In the usual TSR style are not helpful.

Reply 31

Original post
by calummackenzie08
yeah i have no problem with the criticism of it- i agree that it is weak. there are ways to communicate this criticism without being so rude. “any answer that reads like a wild argument with a mate at a bar” “you’re applying for an ACADEMIC degree” “flashy and superficial” “Fail.” all seem overly harsh when i just asked for some help with my first attempt. i’m not sure if either the marker or lawyer would speak like this if someone asked them for help in real life.

I did not say any of those things .. please remove your post.

Reply 32

Original post
by Muttley79
I did not say any of those things .. please remove your post.
the lawyer and marker that you referred to did. i will not remove my post, i literally say in it that i am not sure that either of them would speak like this in real life. i never claimed you said any of these things.

Reply 33

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
I shall explain tomorrow. Right now, I am busy lawyering.
People are trying to help.
Fist bumping, and saying "You got this!" In the usual TSR style are not helpful.


i don’t think the demanding nature of law negates from the fact that encouragement is healthy.

Reply 34

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
I would speak exactly like this face to face in real life.
Stiffy Byng is a persona on a website. She does not exist. But behind the persona is a lawyer experienced in training other lawyers and in teaching law at universities.
Behind the persona of Muttley79 is a senior school teacher experienced in preparing students for competitive universities.
McGinger is experienced in university work. And so on.
Nobody is attacking you as a person. People are critiquing your essay, robustly.
Academic law is a demanding intellectual discipline. Practical law is the theatre of blood (but with knock knock jokes).
If you wish to take either or both of those paths, nobody is forcing you to do so, but, to be blunt, toughen up!


i’m not doubting the credentials of anyone who has commented. i’m just telling you that you and ‘mcginger’ both came off as slightly condescending, and that your criticism is made much harder to learn from with comments like “Fail”. ‘muttley79’ was much easier to learn from as he engaged in explaining the weaknesses in my logical argument.

Reply 35

OP, Comments on your essay below. I will not wrap you in cotton wool. If you want cotton wool, the law is not for you.

Side note to the Moderators and the controllers of TSR: Criticism of Islam is legally protected by the Equality Act 2010. You routinely censor criticism of Islam posted in this forum. By doing so, you break the law. TSR is a service provider and must comply with the Equality Act 2010. Do not censor any part of this post Do not censor any criticism of Islam posted in this forum. TSR must stop acting as though it is above the law. Take legal advice about TSR's duties under the 2010 Act. TSR is skating on thin ice.

Wearing a burkha in Western countries is just as offensive as wearing a bikini in Arab countries. Do you agree?

In a cultural landscape seemingly defined by our differences, comparing the implications of our societies society's rules can lead to highly do not use adjectives or adverbs, they add nothing controversial discussions surrounding religion, sex, and misogyny. Punchy opening, but you then rush into discussion without any clear plan. The essay should have a beginning, a middle, and an ending. A road map at the start is helpful. Beginning- this is where I am going. Middle - Here I am, going there. Ending - This is where I got to. To question and attempt to measure “offensiveness”, we must first look at the reasoning behind both the offending assumes offence - begging the question, and why people may feel offended.Take the bikini, in the western world, a staple of any trip to the beach. The clothing is so inherently normalised that it would look weird to the Westerner if they were to see a woman on the beach, on a sunny day, wearing anything but one. No it wouldn't. No Westerner would think it odd to see a woman wearing a summer dress, a t-shirt and shorts etc on a beach. Despite its revealing nature, there would be no judgement from the average person in the West, much less so than if they Bad grammar - this pronoun grammatically refers to "the average person" were seen wearing a bra and underwear Americanism. The hypocrisy of the West can already be seen here, full stop or semi-colon if someone wore nothing but a bra in public, they would face immediate shame, labelled a (no swears allowed) Would they? Ever seen Madonna or a legion of other female pop stars? Ever been to a music festival?. Wear a bikini though, and you are not shamed with such grotesque labels. It is evident that the wearing of bikinis in the west is slightly out of line with their The West is singular, so use of "their" is ungrammatical own societal norms, nonetheless no great harm is caused by it.So, why would the same behaviour be offensive in an Arab country? Would they too not understand that certain rules apply to the beach? Why shouldn’t they enjoy the sight of a bikini? In Arab countries, an overwhelming majority of the population are Muslim, thus their societal norms reflect this. Islamic law suggests that women should be extremely delete adjective modest, showing no body. What does the Koran actually say on this subject? The meaning of modest is contested. Some subcultures Expand on this - Islam is not a monoculture require the covering of everything but the eyes, by wearing the burkha. Others allow for just a hijab, others do not require any head covering. Those who wear the Burkha do so out of devotion to Islam Do they? Are Afghan women ordered into Burkhas by the Taliban "devoted to Islam". You are ill-informed and appear not to take women's rights seriously. . Those who wear a bikini do so out of devotion to tan lines. Flippant and trivialising. No consideration of women's freedom to determine how they appear. Based on Islamic views, What views? Whose views? Islam is not a monoculture. it is no shock to imagine that wearing clothing as revealing as a bikini, similar to underwear, would be considered highly offensive. To go against the fundamental rules of Islam Is this a fundamental rule? Where is the rule? What does it say? would be seen as utter delete adjective disrespect, seemingly with no requirement Incomplete sentence. There is no need to wear a bikini, plenty of alternatives are available to wear to the beach. Disregards a woman's right to choose what to wear. Why not wear a swimming T-Shirt? Whether or not you agree with Islamic Law Do you mean Sharia? What does Sharia say about this? is irrelevant, it is crystal clear to see why offense Americanism would be taken Only if you adopt your arrogant and misogynist male stand point. Not only social, but too religious rules have been violated. Which rules? Chapter and verse? The burkha, a religious item of clothing, covering all but the eyes. Is it religious? Is it anything but an instrument and symbol of male oppression of women? Typically worn by Islamic women, as part of their devotion. Ever met an Afghan woman forced at gunpoint to wear a Burkha? I have. You need to think about broader perspectives. Why could wearing one in the Western world be deemed as offensive? Firstly, it rejects societal norms, the majority of Western countries are Christian countries Incomplete sentence. What is a "Christian country"? Is the UK a Christian country? You disregard the clash between religious values and secular values. . However, is going against societal norms always offensive? This now reads as stream of consciousness rambling. If i I wake up, and put on a pair of yellow trousers, instead of my typical blue jeans, this rejects societal norms, but is it inherently offensive? There is no law against yellow trousers, the Bible does not require blue trousers, the Bible does not speak against my yellow trousers. It seems, from a religious aspect, my yellow trousers are perfectly acceptable. This too is the case with the burkha, the Bible doesn’t suggest we should wear the burkha, yet it too does not reject it. Muttley79 has already made the point that Bible texts pre-date Islam. Moreover, the Bible does contain some dress rules, although these apply mainly to Jewish men. Several Bronze Age and Iron Age societies veiled women. Still, many would have an objection to the wearing of the burkha. Many argue that it violates the rights of women and forces them to conform to strict rules that violate the Westerns Apostrophe missing and word missing. view of equality. While, in my opinion, many aspects of Islamic culture are oppressive towards women, I am unsure that it can be proved this is one of them. Words fail me, a rare thing! Unless given reason to believe otherwise, we should expect that these women are fully consenting in their wearing of the burkha, Wow! Just wow. if this is the case, who are the Westerners to tell her she cant apostrophe missing wear it? How would a Mormon feel if they were expected to remove their under layers when they entered an Arab country?In each case, the offense Americanism seems to be caused by cultural differing’s Differences, no apostrophe needed. . It is not normal to show so much body in Arab countries, it is not normal to cover so much of the face in the West. As a member of Western society, my cultural expectations are inherently bias ed. Do non-Westerners not have biases? Are you Wokely frightened of criticising non-Western cultures? Would you criticise FGM? Slavery? Animal cruelty? Child soldiering? Cultural relativism takes you down an unethical path. When measuring the offensiveness this should not come into consideration however. Why not? Surely all cultural factors are relevant to this topic. Since Christianity and Islam are the two leading religions in the West and in Arab countries respectively, their rules must come into consideration. The Quran suggests that women should not show much of their body in public. Does it? Show me where it says that. The Bible makes no such comment on the bhurka. See above, Muttley79 has explained this to you. Therefore, to the people of each society, wearing a bikini is more offensive. What? Offensive to Westerners? This is nonsense. The direct violation of what? means that those who follow Islam will feel much more disrespected than Christians should by the burkha. Bikinis are not a part of Christianity, they are simply a result of pop culture across the west over time. Western culture, especially the aspects of it which empower women, is not tied to Christianity. Step outside your (Christian?) bubble. Therefore, to not wear a bikini is not an ask too colloquial that disrespects Christianity, asking someone to remove the burkha is, however. You have incorrectly changed the verb participle from infinitive to present indicative between the first and second clauses of the sentence. Removing Burhka disrespects Christianity? You mean Islam. But I say again: Islam is not a monoculture. Many Muslim women wear only a light head scarf that doesn't even cover all the hair. Overall it is clear that despite potential concerns about the treatment of the women in both cases, it is still more offensive to violate Islamic law Custom, varying, not law and wear a bikini. Your conclusion is not supported by your reasoning. The conclusion appears to reflect your own preconceptions, based on (1) your probably unthinking misogyny, and (2) your probably unthinking Cultural Relativism, but also (3) your ignorance of the issues you discuss.
(edited 2 months ago)

Reply 36

OP, learn how to use paragraphs. A big block of text is not easy on the eye and brain.

Write short sentences. Write short paragraphs. Avoid adverbs and adjectives. Use the active voice. Argue no more than five points. Better still, argue no more than three points.

To write well, read well. Read C19 and C20 literary fiction. Read late C19 and early C20 appellate judgments. Read Lord Atkin, Lord Denning, Lord Justice Laws, Lord Justice Sedley, Lord Justice Moses, and Lord Sumption. Read The Economist and the FT. Read the essays of George Orwell and Christopher Hitchens. If you know Latin, read Caesar and Cicero in Latin. Or read them in translation. Read Thucydides in the Rex Warner translation.

Throw away your essay. It's no good. Go back to the starting point and try again. Keep practising. Get better. Good luck.

Reply 37

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
OP, learn how to use paragraphs. A big block of text is not easy on the eye and brain.
Write short sentences. Write short paragraphs. Avoid adverbs and adjectives. Use the active voice. Argue no more than five points. Better still, argue no more than three points.
To write well, read well. Read C19 and C20 literary fiction. Read late C19 and early C20 appellate judgments. Read Lord Atkin, Lord Denning, Lord Justice Laws, Lord Justice Sedley, Lord Justice Moses, and Lord Sumption. Read The Economist and the FT. Read the essays of George Orwell and Christopher Hitchens. If you know Latin, read Caesar and Cicero in Latin. Or read them in translation. Read Thucydides in the Rex Warner translation.
Throw away your essay. It's no good. Go back to the starting point and try again. Keep practising. Get better. Good luck.


Thank you. Extremely helpful, I appreciate all the time you have taken to help me.

Reply 38

Original post
by calummackenzie08
Thank you. Extremely helpful, I appreciate all the time you have taken to help me.

You're welcome. I am sorry to be blunt. Cheerful praise wouldn't assist you. You are evidently bright. You need to become a bit better informed, work on your writing skills, and develop a more ordered essay style. Please try to see the World from a woman's perspective, as well as a man's. I suggest that you read Germaine Greer's "The Female Eunuch". Good luck!

Reply 39

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
You're welcome. I am sorry to be blunt. Cheerful praise wouldn't assist you. You are evidently bright. You need to become a bit better informed, work on your writing skills, and develop a more ordered essay style. Please try to see the World from a woman's perspective, as well as a man's. I suggest that you read Germaine Greer's "The Female Eunuch". Good luck!


I understand why you don’t think I may hold misogynistic views, but my essay doesn’t reflect my personal opinion. Pretty much, I just chose a side at the start and started writing, then due to time constraints I felt I had to skip over the obvious issues surrounding the treatment of women in Islam, and in the West too for that matter. I have read The Female Eenuch, after I was given it by my english teacher. However I haven’t read most of the texts you suggested in your other post so will try get through some of them. Thanks again.

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