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Ex-polys don't have medical schools and courses watch

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    I'm just wondering why don't ex-poly universities don't have medicine courses and a medical school.
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    Becuase ex polys were not universities, they offered vocational courses such as engineering. The degrees they awarded were awareded by a central body and not the institution itself.

    I suppose technicaly they could add a medical school but with no experience nobody in the right might would fund such a thing.
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    Most ex-polys now have university status. Hence, they are not polytechnics anymore.
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    (Original post by trev)
    Most ex-polys now have university status. Hence, they are not polytechnics anymore.
    I know, but because they never had a medical school when they were polys it I would imagine it would be too expensive and too difficult to start now. Also what you end up with Doctors with 120 UCAS points and a degree from TVU?

    I think some ex polys offer some health related degrees which can put you on the ladder to become a doctor.
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    Why would it be difficult and expensive to set up one now at an ex-poly?
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    Medicine is a very expensive course to fund, even the lecturers cost a lot more (they could be out being surgeons), you need a lot of facilities (anyone got a spare 100 or so bodies for the 1st year disection, oh and the cost of building a whole med school)

    lou xxx
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    (Original post by AT82)
    Becuase ex polys were not universities, they offered vocational courses such as engineering..
    i'd say a medicine degree is pretty damn vocational! :p:

    Trev, i'd say medical schools are expensive & challenging to set up in general! not specifically at 'ex-poly's' but they just haven't historically had them, so lack existing buildings, reputation, staff etc. though as PQ says, some of the newer collaborative medical schools are.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    And of course a Hospital....
    yeh that too... but not all unis use just the one hosiptal do they? i know ninewells hospital here is a teachign hospital, but i didn't think that was the case for all med courses

    lou xxx
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    (Original post by trev)
    Why would it be difficult and expensive to set up one now at an ex-poly?
    You need staff with knowledge, you need a teaching hospital, you need a reputatuin as you need students. When salford wanted to go into this area they had to actually buy Eccles Nursing college, what they then did is used their existing knowledge to merge into the university and as a result it now as a very good reputation. It was however very difficult to setup and very expensive.

    But there was no way they could have gone into nursing from scratch.
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    (Original post by Elles)
    i'd say a medicine degree is pretty damn vocational! :p:

    Trev, i'd say medical schools are expensive & challenging to set up in general! not specifically at 'ex-poly's' but they just haven't historically had them, so lack existing buildings, reputation, staff etc. though as PQ says, some of the newer collaborative medical schools are.
    How come a medicine degree is vocational?

    If ex-polys have funding from other bodies or government, at least a few can be built with good staff.
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    (Original post by trev)
    How come a medicine degree is vocational?

    If ex-polys have funding from other bodies or government, at least a few can be built with good staff.
    Yep but thats just it, the government is very unlikely to fund anything like this unless the university already has a good reputation in the area. Oxbridge get more money than most the other universities put together.

    The other thing is there is actually any need or demand for this? Universities can be very snobby things, and I am not sure if a TVU medical degree would be well regarded, especialy as the actual medical content will probably be replaced with "Blame diversification Level 3"

    It would be a nice for some where to offer medical degree with BBC type grades though as longs as they made sure standards remained high.

    Medicine is vocational because its applied, where as somthing like History isn't really applied as such, its not a skill, where as medicine is very much a skill.
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    (Original post by trev)
    How come a medicine degree is vocational?
    erm..

    vocational

    (Original post by dictionary.com)
    adj : of or relation to a vocation or occupation; especially providing or undergoing training in special skills..
    & in Medicine, we're studying to become a Doctor & hoping to be trained in the appropriate clinical and scientific skills.. :rolleyes: 'vocational' doesn't necessarily equate with non-academic or something! :p:

    If ex-polys have funding from other bodies or government, at least a few can be built with good staff.
    will the government force staff to work there? i heard a while back that some new medical schools initially had difficulties in recruiting the breadth of staff they needed.

    surely it could be argued rather than spending millions on new medical teaching buildings more places (if deemed to be necessary) should be funded at schools with room to expand (not sure which fall into this category) & already have appropriate buildings, staff, course expertise, reputation etc etc.?

    Edited in light of AT's post.

    re. Oxbridge (PQ will no doubt know more about funding) but i don't think the government just throw money at them for the virtue of their name.. research grants are competitive things (both public and private money) - & go to the place that wins the bid. 'political correctness' seeing inept university departments being awarded them & subsequently squandering the money would hardly make sense...!

    & re. the grades - look up the 'Access to Medicine' courses? or the GEP entry for those with more unconventional backgrounds, perhaps..
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    I would rather have BBB type grades instead of BBC with requriements of GAMSAT and an interview.

    Some ex-poly un's have very good reputations and they could have a chance for a medical school though.

    There is a shortage of surgeons and other medical jobs though. By the way, the TVU meidcal corse is a pre-medical one, which means it's a one year course. After that you transfer to a 5 year medical course leading to a MBChB.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Brighton and Sussex Medical School <=Brighton is an ex-poly
    Peninsular (Plymouth and Exeter) <=Plymouth is an ex-poly
    However in both situation they are paired with a non-polytechnic uni
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    (Original post by trev)
    I would rather have BBB type grades instead of BBC with requriements of GAMSAT and an interview.
    have you looked at any GAMSAT papers yet, out of interest..? :hmmmm2: i've heard it's absolutely hell-ish.

    & if you're going to sit GAMSAT then A levels are largely irrelevant, as far as i knew.. :confused:
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    (Original post by Elles)
    have you looked at any GAMSAT papers yet, out of interest..? :hmmmm2: i've heard it's absolutely hell-ish.

    & if you're going to sit GAMSAT then A levels are largely irrelevant, as far as i knew.. :confused:
    What is GAMSAT? I have heard of the BMAT but not that
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    (Original post by randdom)
    What is GAMSAT? I have heard of the BMAT but not that
    based on my sketchy-partially-osmosised-knowledge, because it's not something that was relevant to me!

    graduate entry exam - hailing from australia - generally open to mature/graduate students from any background - often used as sole discriminator of calling to interview - ~A level knowledge of the sciences & maths, plus ethical essays etc. very time pressured, but oodles of papers, all sat at big london centres in one day.

    hence considerably harder than the BMAT..!

    somone who's prepared for/sat it would undoubtedly know more.
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    (Original post by AT82)
    and I am not sure if a TVU medical degree would be well regarded, especialy as the actual medical content will probably be replaced with "Blame diversification Level 3"
    All medical schools which allow you to practice as a doctor in the UK must reach a minimum standard before they are granted authenticity. If TVU decided tomorrow that it would like to start doing a medicine degree and puts together some sham of a curriculum, students can come out of there with a 'tvu medicine degree' but would not be allowed to register with the GMC to become doctors.

    For a 'lower end' university to even consider having a medical school they need to have demonstrated a strong foundation for research and teaching standards. A small part of this is due to staffing levels. Which medical academics are going to want to add "Professor at TVU" onto their CV?

    Also, from a students point of view, which sort of person with AAA at A-Level is even going to want to apply to Thames Valley University to study medicine in the first place?

    (I'm not necessarily trying to slate TVU here, just trying to prove a point).

    (Original post by AT82)
    It would be a nice for some where to offer medical degree with BBC type grades though as longs as they made sure standards remained high.
    The main reason medicine asks for AAB is due to the competition for places and the popularity of the course. If a university specified BBC as a requirement, they'd probably lose about half of their government budget sifting through and interviewing the thousands of people that would apply.
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    (Original post by trev)
    I would rather have BBB type grades instead of BBC with requriements of GAMSAT and an interview.

    Some ex-poly un's have very good reputations and they could have a chance for a medical school though.

    There is a shortage of surgeons and other medical jobs though. By the way, the TVU meidcal corse is a pre-medical one, which means it's a one year course. After that you transfer to a 5 year medical course leading to a MBChB.
    It's not just about reputations though. It costs around £20000 per year to train ONE pre-clinical medical students, with the costs rising before graduation. Plus you need a decent sized city with a large hospital/set of hospitals for training purposes. Most of the UK's cities which would be viable options for this already have medical schools. There is a shortage of doctors, hence why there are 5 new medical schools. The cost to the government of setting these up must have been phenomenal, they can't just randomly open up a few more because they feel like it, given how much it costs.

    It's not just a snobbery thing, it's a logic thing

    And some unis are now using the BMAT as a selection criterion as well as A-level grades, in order to differentiate between a vast array of highly able candidates.
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    can I just say.......uni of hertfordshire is an ex poly - as far as I know hertfordshire have just given the go ahead for a "super hospital" to be built in hatfield, and the uni plans to start a medical degree to coincide with this
 
 
 
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