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So much for the 2nd amendment

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Reply 20

Ok dumbasses.
Let's say the first 2 shots missed her.
Is this 3rd shot murder, or "self defence"?
611465676_10163264558337025_6867085225668130220_n.jpg

Reply 21

Original post
by 2WheelGod
Except, as the video clearly shows, he was at the side of the car when the first shot was fired.
"We know this because he went to hospital"
No we don't. However, we do know that he was walking around with no sign of injury after the shooting, as the videos show.
Apart from anything else, if a turning, slow moving car is close to you, to step out of the way so it doesn't hit you (as the shooter did, before firing). Why on earth would anyone fire several shots at the driver? The vehicle could be caused to swerve and hit you. There is literally nothing about the incident that could justify his actions. But for some bizarre reason, you think it was the correct thing to do.
bbc.png Ive have paused the bbc video on the verify page. There are two ICE in this image, the one on the right of the car and one in front. the one in front was the one hit and the one who shot. He is clearly in front of the car and she starts to go forward.

Reply 22

Original post
by 2WheelGod
Ok dumbasses.
Let's say the first 2 shots missed her.
Is this 3rd shot murder, or "self defence"?
611465676_10163264558337025_6867085225668130220_n.jpg

In the space of 1 second, self defense.

Reply 23

Original post
by Guru Jason
In the space of 1 second, self defense.

It is no longer self defense once the threat ceases. The moment it does, and they make the choice to continue to shoot, it is manslaughter in the very least.
Usually I find myself on the side of the officer, but this video is lawless. Officers and agents should be scared to kill people, break laws, and escalate potentially violent situations, it goes against their agency. Yet in one frame we see an officer raising his gun and firing it at citizens with zero hesitancy, while the other is attempting to illegally break into her property? It is not shocking that the lady felt pushed into fleeing the situation, or not respect laws when the officers around her are showing her that the laws do not matter in the moment.

Reply 24

Original post
by Guru Jason
bbc.png Ive have paused the bbc video on the verify page. There are two ICE in this image, the one on the right of the car and one in front. the one in front was the one hit and the one who shot. He is clearly in front of the car and she starts to go forward.

In that still, the vehicle is stationary.
Once the wheels are on full right lock and she pulls slowly away, she is driving past him, as shown in subsequent video and stills. And he had plenty of opportunity to avoid the vehicle. But instead he chose to draw is gun and shoot.
The final shot (which could be the fatal one) is fired through the side window and there is no threat to his safety. Straight up murder.

Reply 25

There have been a further two shootings in Portland, Oregon.
Portland shooting: U.S. federal agents shoot two, police say

Reply 26

As we see the MAGA propaganda machine go into action, George Orwell’s word are prescient:

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

Reply 27

Original post
by Guru Jason
In the space of 1 second, self defense.

Try looking at the still. The killer is clearly and inarguably standing clear of the side of the vehicle and shooting through the side window.
Even if the bumper had earlier clipped his leg, deliberately shooting someone who is no longer a threat is murder, plain and simple. To claim otherwise would be to argue that a police office can shoot a suspect after they had surrendered simply because the suspect had earlier pointed a gun at them.

Reply 28

Original post
by Gazpacho.
As we see the MAGA propaganda machine go into action, George Orwell’s word are prescient:
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

Watching Trump, Nome, etc blatantly and repeatedly lie, when they know we have all seen the video, confirms this.
Recent events have shown they just don't care any more. They believe they have absolute power and authority. Trump's recent statement that what is "right" is now determined by his own morality is the true stuff of dictators. And people said it would never happen.

Reply 29

Very interesting when someone opens a new thread with a post mentioning 'masked death squads'. They are no such thing. What in the world are you going on about.
Original post
by ErasistratusV
Very interesting when someone opens a new thread with a post mentioning 'masked death squads'. They are no such thing. What in the world are you going on about.


I mean, they’re masked, in a squad and have caused at least one death.

If it quacks like a duck and all that.

Reply 31

Original post
by ErasistratusV
Very interesting when someone opens a new thread with a post mentioning 'masked death squads'. They are no such thing. What in the world are you going on about.

That thing is ICE
Does ICE not exist?
They wear masks
They run about in big groups
They kill people
As @Admit-One said

Reply 32

Original post
by Guru Jason
I moved from my phone without auto correct to my pc where i can type more accurately. the fact you bring up spelling in an argument is frankly childish.
Right the The car was not in reverse when he was hit. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c93vny222geo please watch the BBC video where they state after reversing, she moves forward. He was hit.
Do i think the self defense of an agent being driven at is justified? Yes i do. Calling it murder is strawmanning and you should stop.
The prerequisite for self defense it to defend oneself in a situation where someone else would cause you harm. i mean this is pretty simple. Just because you have not been harmed in dangerous situation doesnt mean you should stay in harms way. You dont defend yourself AFTER someone has driven a car at you, you make sure that person doesnt get the chance to.
Despite my phone ******* up the sentence structure, come on you know what i mean otherwise you have the comprehension of a 5 year old. If the officer had let the woman pick up any kind of speed and hit him, his injuries could have been severely worse. Good on him for not letting that happen.

Oh, here we go again, first you call me emotional, and next, you call me childish. You're trying so very hard to be beliittling, "Guru Jason".

@2WheelGod has already pointed out the facts of the car, I don't drive and so can't tell who's doing what in regards to the car but I'd trust him more than uh, others here.

I won't stop. Because it was an unjustified murder. I'd appreciate it if you hit pause on the whole 'not murder' thing, "Guru Jason".

"just because you have not been harmed in dangerous situation doesnt mean you should stay in harms way."
So you agree she didn't actually hurt him? And as we've already established, didn't hurt him?

"come on you know what i mean otherwise you have the comprehension of a 5 year old."
Rude man. I didn't know what you meant. You clearly don't think about English as a foreign language, dyslexia, etc, in your phrasing.

"If the officer had let the woman pick up any kind of speed and hit him, his injuries could have been severely worse."
I thought he... hadn't been harmed in this 'dangerous situation'?
Crossing a road is the same 'dangerous situation' for the shooter

"Good on him for not letting that happen."
Good on him for murdering a woman?!!

Reply 33

Original post
by ethereal-bleach
That thing is ICE
Does ICE not exist?
They wear masks
They run about in big groups
They kill people
As @Admit-One said


A lot of security and law enforcement services worldwide wear masks.

Can you outline how many people have been executed by ICE officials last year if you're certain their primary function is to round up and eliminate average citizens in the USA?

Reply 34

Original post
by ErasistratusV
A lot of security and law enforcement services worldwide wear masks.
Can you outline how many people have been executed by ICE officials last year if you're certain their primary function is to round up and eliminate average citizens in the USA?

I never said their primary function is to round up and elimintate average citizens in the USA. If that's you're opinion, fine, but don't quote words that never came out of my mouth, buddy.

Reply 35

Original post
by ethereal-bleach
I never said their primary function is to round up and elimintate average citizens in the USA. If that's you're opinion, fine, but don't quote words that never came out of my mouth, buddy.

I'm confused. Are you saying they are a masked death squad or not? Both you and the poster you mention seem to suggest that is the case?

I fear you are all looking at this through non-American eyes. In the USA, it is not unusual for police, law enforcement and security agencies to dress with a lot of military-esque equipment, including helmets, ballistic vests and a whole plethora of stuff, including masks. This is considered completely normal in that country though it would be a very rare thing to see in much of Europe. I think this might be the source of confusion here.
(edited 1 month ago)

Reply 36

Original post
by ErasistratusV
I'm confused. Are you saying they are a masked death squad or not? Both you and the poster you mention seem to suggest that is the case?
I fear you are all looking at this through non-American eyes. In the USA, it is not unusual for police, law enforcement and security agencies to dress with a lot of military-esque equipment, including helmets, ballistic vests and a whole plethora of stuff, including masks. This is considered completely normal in that country though it would be a very rare thing to see in much of Europe. I think this might be the source of confusion here.

I said, "They kill people". Which is true.
YOU said "their primary function is to round up and eliminate average citizens in the USA". I think the second statement is a bit of a reach from mine.

Do not patronise me. I am well aware. The fact that law enforcement wear masks is even more of a great reason to call them 'masked', because they are.
Are you American? Additionally, why assume where I'm from?
Original post
by ErasistratusV
I'm confused. Are you saying they are a masked death squad or not? Both you and the poster you mention seem to suggest that is the case?

I fear you are all looking at this through non-American eyes. In the USA, it is not unusual for police, law enforcement and security agencies to dress with a lot of military-esque equipment, including helmets, ballistic vests and a whole plethora of stuff, including masks. This is considered completely normal in that country though it would be a very rare thing to see in much of Europe. I think this might be the source of confusion here.


It’s the incompetent person with a firearm killing someone that’s the concern, not the paramilitary uniform.

It Trump wants ICE on a very loose leash to discourage illegal immigration, then comparisons to blackshirts are somewhat inevitable given the way they are currently operating.

Reply 38

Original post
by Admit-One
It’s the incompetent person with a firearm killing someone that’s the concern, not the paramilitary uniform.
It Trump wants ICE on a very loose leash to discourage illegal immigration, then comparisons to blackshirts are somewhat inevitable given the way they are currently operating.

You state they are incompetent and yet there have been multiple instances of the exact same outcome in very similar circumstances where officers were later cleared of their actions in court.

As I have mentioned (and keep mentioning), law enforcement officers in the USA have the right to self defence using lethal force, this is fully allowed for in law.

I fear too many people are trying to examine this from a European perspective which simply does not apply in this case. In the USA, the vast majority of officers and agents carrying out federal duties will be routinely armed and have access to a lot more firepower that even dedicated firearms officers in the UK might not.

They are not 'death squads'. They are authorised and trained agents of a federal agency. They wear uniforms and carry equipment that is considered de-rigeur for their duties in America.

I get you guys hate Trump and might even hate America but take the blinkers off and examine the wider context.

Reply 39

Original post
by ethereal-bleach
I said, "They kill people". Which is true.
YOU said "their primary function is to round up and eliminate average citizens in the USA". I think the second statement is a bit of a reach from mine.
Do not patronise me. I am well aware. The fact that law enforcement wear masks is even more of a great reason to call them 'masked', because they are.
Are you American? Additionally, why assume where I'm from?

Just answer the question. Are you in agreement with the idea that these officers are out there operating as masked death squads?

That isn't the remit of ICE agents as I understand it. They wear uniforms and carry equipment that is hardly unusual in the context of Federal agents in the United States.

This kind of situation has happened before in the USA. It is not an unheard of incident where officers use lethal force in response to a vehicle they perceive to be a threat. This would be unfathomable almost anywhere in Europe, but it's unfortunately a reality in the US.

If you read my prose carefully I have made no assumptions on where you are from. A Canadian would view this incident very differently to an American also.

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