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So much for the 2nd amendment

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Reply 40

Original post
by ErasistratusV
Very interesting when someone opens a new thread with a post mentioning 'masked death squads'. They are no such thing. What in the world are you going on about.

Hmm, lets see...
1 - Squads (small organised groups, often military or law enforcement) of heavily armed men on the streets of US cities? CHECK
2 - Those men are masked? CHECK
3 - Those squads have shot people to death? CHECK

Crikey! Seems like my initially flippant comment is actually accurate.
Thanks for pointing this out. God bless America.

Reply 41

Original post
by ErasistratusV
A lot of security and law enforcement services worldwide wear masks.
Can you outline how many people have been executed by ICE officials last year if you're certain their primary function is to round up and eliminate average citizens in the USA?

"if you're certain their primary function is to round up and eliminate average citizens in the USA?"
😂.
Let's add "straw man" to your bucket o'fallacies.

Since Trump took office, 19 people have been shot by Border & Immigration agents, with 6 dead.
I accept that it's no school shooting, but it's still pretty bad.

Reply 42

Original post
by ethereal-bleach
I never said their primary function is to round up and elimintate average citizens in the USA. If that's you're opinion, fine, but don't quote words that never came out of my mouth, buddy.

Erasistratus has an established track record of using a variety of informal fallacies ("straw man" this time) to avoid addressing actual points raised.

Reply 43

Original post
by ErasistratusV
I'm confused. Are you saying they are a masked death squad or not? Both you and the poster you mention seem to suggest that is the case?
I fear you are all looking at this through non-American eyes. In the USA, it is not unusual for police, law enforcement and security agencies to dress with a lot of military-esque equipment, including helmets, ballistic vests and a whole plethora of stuff, including masks. This is considered completely normal in that country though it would be a very rare thing to see in much of Europe. I think this might be the source of confusion here.

I'm confused as to why you would think a "masked death squad" (which we have now established is a not unreasonable description) would necessarily have to be attempting to "round up and eliminate average citizens in the USA"?
Traditionally, such squads tend to target specific groups - in this case brown and black immigrants, and those protesting against their actions.

Masked, heavily armed gangs, using mismatched equipment, driving unmarked cars, is absolutely not "considered completely normal" in the US. I lived there for a year and never saw such a group once.
Perhaps you are watching too many movies or videos of ICE raids?

Reply 44

Original post
by 2WheelGod
The video and commentary on the BBC page you linked clearly show that the ICE thug was not acting in "self defence", and shot the woman while he was at the side of the car, not being run over by it.
Stills from the video clarify relative positions of participants at a given moment. But obviously you will want to ignore them as it shows it was plain murder of an innocent, unarmed civilian.
Yes, he was in front of the car before the shots were fired, but at the time, the car was in reverse. When he actually shot her, he was at the side of the car (including the final shot fired through the side window!)
It is mind boggling that people will attempt to justify cold-blooded murder in order to somehow "own the libs". Have a ******* word with yourself.

it's clearly a bot or a stupid person. stop engaging man.

Reply 45

Original post
by ErasistratusV
You state they are incompetent and yet there have been multiple instances of the exact same outcome in very similar circumstances where officers were later cleared of their actions in court.
As I have mentioned (and keep mentioning), law enforcement officers in the USA have the right to self defence using lethal force, this is fully allowed for in law.
I fear too many people are trying to examine this from a European perspective which simply does not apply in this case. In the USA, the vast majority of officers and agents carrying out federal duties will be routinely armed and have access to a lot more firepower that even dedicated firearms officers in the UK might not.
They are not 'death squads'. They are authorised and trained agents of a federal agency. They wear uniforms and carry equipment that is considered de-rigeur for their duties in America.
I get you guys hate Trump and might even hate America but take the blinkers off and examine the wider context.

"law enforcement officers in the USA have the right to self defence using lethal force"
This has been explained to you before. That use of lethal force has to be legally justified.
An LEO can't just shoot someone and claim "self defence", regardless of circumstances.

"I get you guys might even hate America but take the blinkers off"
😂 Think you need to take your MAGA blinkers off. (I loved my year living there)
Hating a nation may be something in your tool box, but not for rational people.
What rational people are objecting to here is the unjustified and likely illegal killing* of an unarmed and innocent civilian by a member of a squad of masked, heavily armed people (#masked #death #squad).

*The current consensus amongst US law enforcement and legal experts - as opposed to your personal opinion.

Reply 46

Original post
by 2WheelGod
I'm confused as to why you would think a "masked death squad" (which we have now established is a not unreasonable description) would necessarily have to be attempting to "round up and eliminate average citizens in the USA"?
Traditionally, such squads tend to target specific groups - in this case brown and black immigrants, and those protesting against their actions.
Masked, heavily armed gangs, using mismatched equipment, driving unmarked cars, is absolutely not "considered completely normal" in the US. I lived there for a year and never saw such a group once.
Perhaps you are watching too many movies or videos of ICE raids?

It's not fascism when it's the west.

Reply 47

Original post
by 2WheelGod
"law enforcement officers in the USA have the right to self defence using lethal force"
This has been explained to you before. That use of lethal force has to be legally justified.
An LEO can't just shoot someone and claim "self defence", regardless of circumstances.
"I get you guys might even hate America but take the blinkers off"
😂 Think you need to take your MAGA blinkers off. (I loved my year living there)
Hating a nation may be something in your tool box, but not for rational people.
What rational people are objecting to here is the unjustified and likely illegal killing* of an unarmed and innocent civilian by a member of a squad of masked, heavily armed people (#masked #death #squad).
*The current consensus amongst US law enforcement and legal experts - as opposed to your personal opinion.
It's pretty much 1930's Germany there all over again. And then while they try to justify the deaths of innocent people, we're villains for protecting them and defacing murderers? Absolutely psychotic, abhorrent behaviour.

Reply 48

An interesting graphic that seems to dispel the claim that the ICE agent feared for his life when the first shot was fired, even if the vehicle was moving straight forward, which it was not. It was turning to the right.
The numbers show 3 possible positions for the first shot, not the 3 shots.

Shots.jpg
(edited 1 month ago)

Reply 49

Original post
by ErasistratusV
Just answer the question. Are you in agreement with the idea that these officers are out there operating as masked death squads?
That isn't the remit of ICE agents as I understand it. They wear uniforms and carry equipment that is hardly unusual in the context of Federal agents in the United States.
This kind of situation has happened before in the USA. It is not an unheard of incident where officers use lethal force in response to a vehicle they perceive to be a threat. This would be unfathomable almost anywhere in Europe, but it's unfortunately a reality in the US.
If you read my prose carefully I have made no assumptions on where you are from. A Canadian would view this incident very differently to an American also.

Why should I answer the question when your polarising question? lol
"If you read my prose carefully"
Prose is a strong word for what you write.

I am well aware that this is common in the US. It also doesn't make it any more right.
It's a bit patronising to explain something to me that I'm well aware of....

Reply 50

Original post
by ethereal-bleach
Why should I answer the question when your polarising question? lol
"If you read my prose carefully"
Prose is a strong word for what you write.
I am well aware that this is common in the US. It also doesn't make it any more right.
It's a bit patronising to explain something to me that I'm well aware of....

"Bad thing happens so stopping it is pointless"

Reply 51

Original post
by ethereal-bleach
Why should I answer the question when your polarising question? lol
"If you read my prose carefully"
Prose is a strong word for what you write.
I am well aware that this is common in the US. It also doesn't make it any more right.
It's a bit patronising to explain something to me that I'm well aware of....

It is prose in my book.

If you don't want to answer, well, people can infer what they might from that.

Reply 52

Original post
by 2WheelGod
"if you're certain their primary function is to round up and eliminate average citizens in the USA?"
😂.
Let's add "straw man" to your bucket o'fallacies.
Since Trump took office, 19 people have been shot by Border & Immigration agents, with 6 dead.
I accept that it's no school shooting, but it's still pretty bad.

I'm not bothering with your replies now. They are becoming farcical really.

Reply 53

Original post
by 2WheelGod
Hmm, lets see...
1 - Squads (small organised groups, often military or law enforcement) of heavily armed men on the streets of US cities? CHECK
2 - Those men are masked? CHECK
3 - Those squads have shot people to death? CHECK
Crikey! Seems like my initially flippant comment is actually accurate.
Thanks for pointing this out. God bless America.

When you have a clue about American culture and the nature and usual policies of law enforcement in that country, feel free to come back to us instead of going entirely off the fact you dislike Trump/ICE agents or whatever your personal agenda might feel is important this week.

Reply 54

Original post
by AltAccount00
"Bad thing happens so stopping it is pointless"

I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion, I don't recall anyone posting anything to that effect.

Still, easy for someone to write nonsense when it's not their life on the line daily working in law enforcement.

Reply 55

Original post
by AltAccount00
"Bad thing happens so stopping it is pointless"

Lol

Original post
by ErasistratusV
It is prose in my book.
If you don't want to answer, well, people can infer what they might from that.

I'm not bothering with your replies now. They are becoming farcical really.


Original post
by ErasistratusV
I'm not bothering with your replies now. They are becoming farcical really.

If you don't want to answer, well, people can infer what they might from that.

Original post
by ErasistratusV
When you have a clue about American culture and the nature and usual policies of law enforcement in that country, feel free to come back to us instead of going entirely off the fact you dislike Trump/ICE agents or whatever your personal agenda might feel is important this week.

Rude ahh

Original post
by ErasistratusV
I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion, I don't recall anyone posting anything to that effect.
Still, easy for someone to write nonsense when it's not their life on the line daily working in law enforcement.

Do you work in law enforcement then?
I plan to.

Reply 56

Original post
by ErasistratusV
It is prose in my book.
If you don't want to answer, well, people can infer what they might from that.

"If you don't want to answer, well, people can infer what they might from that."
Seriously, you can't keep hogging all the irony like that.

Reply 57

Original post
by ErasistratusV
I'm not bothering with your replies now. They are becoming farcical really.

🤣
I really should have saved this. Still, hasn't got old yet...
If you don't want to answer, well, people can infer what they might from that.
🤣

Reply 58

Original post
by ErasistratusV
When you have a clue about American culture and the nature and usual policies of law enforcement in that country, feel free to come back to us instead of going entirely off the fact you dislike Trump/ICE agents or whatever your personal agenda might feel is important this week.

"When you have a clue about American culture and the nature and usual policies of law enforcement in that country"
Says the person who thinks that roving federal masked death squads (confirmed definition) are "considered completely normal" in the US.
As I said, during my time living there, I never saw a single one. And I lived in Virginia, which is not some liberal leftist state. Or maybe Trump only sends his masked death squads to liberal leftist states, which is why I never saw any. Could be a kind of "black swan" scenario?

Anywho, my "personal agenda" of law enforcement officers not killing innocent, unarmed people is an ongoing one.
How about you?

Reply 59

Original post
by 2WheelGod
"When you have a clue about American culture and the nature and usual policies of law enforcement in that country"
Says the person who thinks that roving federal masked death squads (confirmed definition) are "considered completely normal" in the US.
As I said, during my time living there, I never saw a single one. And I lived in Virginia, which is not some liberal leftist state. Or maybe Trump only sends his masked death squads to liberal leftist states, which is why I never saw any. Could be a kind of "black swan" scenario?
Anywho, my "personal agenda" of law enforcement officers not killing innocent, unarmed people is an ongoing one.
How about you?

When you are ready to discuss this properly, let me know. Right now you're still clearly on the track of masked death squads and trying to decide which aspect of your legal training lets you calculate this to be second degree murder.

What's your thinking, the fact he moved to the front of the car was all a calculated action on his part to let him draw his weapon and use it? Or the guys ego was so bruised by the confrontation he couldn't let it go unpunished?

Get real.

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