priest jailed for rape and girl is shamed

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hams
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#1
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i am indian my self but i cannot understand how a priest that rape a girl TWICE is jailed for 12 years and SHE is seen as an outcast. that is just wrong. this girl was raped and left pregnant.

this just shows you want a lack of respect indian women hold in indian society.

i cannot emphasise how wrong this is

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4278121.stm
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randdom
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I agree that he should be in prison for longer for what he has done. I don't think that this article says that the idian community has shunned this women all it says is that she had become a loner. This is not uncommon for women who have been raped. They can pull away from their friends ect.
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Howard
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#3
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(Original post by hams)
i am indian my self but i cannot understand how a priest that rape a girl TWICE is jailed for 12 years and SHE is seen as an outcast. that is just wrong. this girl was raped and left pregnant.

this just shows you want a lack of respect indian women hold in indian society.

i cannot emphasise how wrong this is

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4278121.stm
Just shows how truly backward India is.
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Tyler Durden
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(Original post by Howard)
Just shows how truly backward India is.
Are you being absolutely serious?
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Howard
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(Original post by englishstudent)
Are you being absolutely serious?
Well, do you think making a rape victim an outcast is a sign of a progressive society?
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Tyler Durden
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(Original post by Howard)
Just shows how truly backward India is.
Firstly, it was in Croydon (which is in the UK) and not India.

Secondly, the fact that it happened within an India community proves absolutely nothing whatsoever. The same thing could happen to a catholic priest (except they seem to go more for little boys).

Thirdly, it says "After having an abortion the woman made several suicide attempts and became a loner." It does not even imply that she was ostracised by her community.

Please, please therefore explain how this article shows India to be backward.
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Howard
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(Original post by englishstudent)
Firstly, it was in Croydon (which is in the UK) and not India.

Secondly, the fact that it happened within an India community proves absolutely nothing whatsoever. The same thing could happen to a catholic priest (except they seem to go more for little boys).

Thirdly, it says "After having an abortion the woman made several suicide attempts and became a loner." It does not even imply that she was ostracised by her community.

Please, please therefore explain how this article shows India to be backward.
Yes, jumped the gun there. Misread the original thread and couldn't be bothered with the link.

But let's move on. Would you agree that ostrasization of rape victims in India is fairly common and do you see this as a sign of a progressive society?
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Howard
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(Original post by englishstudent)

Secondly, the fact that it happened within an India community proves absolutely nothing whatsoever. The same thing could happen to a catholic priest (except they seem to go more for little boys).
But would the little boy have been punished for being the victim?
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Howard
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(Original post by englishstudent)

Thirdly, it says "After having an abortion the woman made several suicide attempts and became a loner." It does not even imply that she was ostracised by her community.
Maybe not but HAM's him/herself say's

"...........i cannot understand how a priest that rape a girl TWICE is jailed for 12 years and SHE is seen as an outcast. that is just wrong. this girl was raped and left pregnant"

He/she goes on to say:

"this just shows you want a lack of respect indian women hold in indian society"

Now, is Hams just embelleshing the story or do you think "as an Indian" he/she may be speaking from a more experienced standpoint than you or I?

Rushing to neg rep me because you find what I say unsavoury because it's not PC when there is someone from the culture in question standing by affirming what I say makes you look a bit of a plonker don't you think? (I should say the same thing for the other person who neg repped me but at least you had the guts to sign off in your own name......well done for not being a pussy)
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Tyler Durden
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(Original post by Howard)
But let's move on. Would you agree that ostrasization of rape victims in India is fairly common and do you see this as a sign of a progressive society?
Of course I don't. I am sure that India (as with every other nation in the world) has some social problems. So no, I don't see the ostrasisation of women who have been raped as progressive. However, Hinduism is a more progressive religion than Islam and in many ways as Christianity. (In as far as any religion can be progressive). I don't see government-funded abstinence programs which admonish condom useage as part of a progressive society and yet that happens in the USA. So there you go - every society has problems.

(Original post by Howard)
But would the little boy have been punished for being the victim?
No-one punished this woman. The psychological effects of the rape and abortion led her to become a loner.
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Howard
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(Original post by englishstudent)

No-one punished this woman. The psychological effects of the rape and abortion led her to become a loner.
That's not what Hams, the thread starter, is saying. (At least it doesn't look like it to me)
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Tyler Durden
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(Original post by Howard)
That's not what Hams, the thread starter, is saying. (At least it doesn't look like it to me)
Read the second post in this thread.
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Howard
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(Original post by englishstudent)
Read the second post in this thread.
So, Ham's view as an Indian who presumably knows something about his/her society can be disregarded.

Do you want an anal conversation about the precise wording of the article and what it did or did not say (if you do then let's call in Vienna, our resident expert in such things) or would you prefer a more grown up conversation about a very real and not uncommon social problem? Your choice pal.
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Tyler Durden
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(Original post by Howard)
So, Ham's view as an Indian who presumably knows something about his/her society can be disregarded.

Do you want an anal conversation about the precise wording of the article and what it did or did not say (if you do then let's call in Vienna, our resident expert in such things) or would you prefer a more grown up conversation about a very real and not uncommon social problem? Your choice pal.
Look, the article does not show what this thread was set up to demonstrate. I don't know if that was a mistake, misinterpretation or what on the part of Hams.

However to leave the article to one side, I think it is certainly preferable to have a society in which everybody (male or female) is treated fairly and with equality. You won't hear me arguing otherwise.

I only objected to your comment "Just shows how truly backward India is" when the article does nothing of the sort. And yes, India does have issues I am certain (in about a month I hope to be in Mumbai so I will see them first-hand I am sure). However, it is the world's largest democracy and has a lot going for it. To write the country off as "backward" is foolish and ridiculous.
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Jamie
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Havent read the arguement, but just bringing it to your attentions that ostracisation of rape victims is not an indian thing. You have things the wrong way round. Acceptance of rape victims is a western thing. (Im saying that we are in the progressive minority that is, not agreeing that rape victims are in any way inferior!)
I think its part and parcel with the whole 'virgin bride' idea in most parts of the world, and that rape is thought to 'spoil' the woman.
its horrible, but very widespread.
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Jamie
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(Original post by Howard)
So, Ham's view as an Indian who presumably knows something about his/her society can be disregarded.

Do you want an anal conversation about the precise wording of the article and what it did or did not say (if you do then let's call in Vienna, our resident expert in such things) or would you prefer a more grown up conversation about a very real and not uncommon social problem? Your choice pal.
for the area of the world it is in, india does VERY well with regards to womans rights. I mean yeh, they are ***** compared to western standards, but a hell of a lot better than in pakistanb, bangladesh, china etc
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Howard
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(Original post by englishstudent)

I only objected to your comment "Just shows how truly backward India is" when the article does nothing of the sort. And yes, India does have issues I am certain (in about a month I hope to be in Mumbai so I will see them first-hand I am sure). However, it is the world's largest democracy and has a lot going for it. To write the country off as "backward" is foolish and ridiculous.
Yes, and I've already acknowledged that I jumped the gun and didn't read the article. Would you like me to flog myself through the streets of Norwich by way of an apology?

As a brief aside though; what is the illiteracy rate in India, the life expectency, the number of children in poverty? How are rape victims viewed? (we've been discussing this) Why are a huge class of people (the untouchables) treated as less than animals?

Largest democracy or not, all of these things suggest to me a fairly backward country.
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Howard
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(Original post by foolfarian)
for the area of the world it is in, india does VERY well with regards to womans rights. I mean yeh, they are ***** compared to western standards, but a hell of a lot better than in pakistanb, bangladesh, china etc
Lol. That's the main thing; they're better than Bangladesh. :rolleyes:
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lady_daisychain
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its not the location of the attack, croydon, india, everywhere is wrong, its the fact that people have been prozletyzed by religion, by the media and by their peers and culture to find things such as that acceptable, or worse than that- because people have no real sense of identity, their sense of morals have been twisted by their 'culture' that men have created which will ONLY appeal to men until it is changed, and culture no longer becomes something we have in common with others, but something that makes us stand out from others- in which we are not afraid to express our opinions or say that the rape is wrong. People are so hooked up on their culture and traditons, that anything going against that is seen as wrong- but it is really this restriction of belief, which is wrong.
My heart goes out to that girl, but it is not the first time we are given evidence of the inhumane treatment of women and it won't be the last.
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RieLouise
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(Original post by Howard)
Are you a lesbian?
I can't see anything in her post that prompted you to say that.
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