The Student Room Group

Medicine and engineering

Hey i am in year 11 and for my alevels i have chosen maths physics and chemistry and further maths to do engineering , but i really dont want to do further maths as 4 alevels is just way to much for me and also i dont do it for gcse and ny collage wont let me drop it in the middle of the year . So if i pick just maths physics and chemistry than i would be able to go to a mediocre university, however if i did maths chemistry and biology i could do medicine at a higher level university a russel group for example . I like both bio and physics , though i an better at biology , but medicine is very long and also very isolated as you cant get a different degree easily after , also moving to another country is also difficult due to laws - for example the usa where you would have to study 3-6 years more even after you are fully qualified in the uk . But engineering wont be like that as it’s accepted in most places . If i was to do medicine i would 100% do dermatology as its very high paying and im also very passionate about skincare and the skin . However , engineers have more flexibility as i can do finance if i dont enjoy it and move countries more freely , also my main goal is a good income, so engineering sounds more appealing-but more risky in terms of salary . What should i do for alevels and wich courses does anyone recommend? Bio or physics ?
Original post
by jgdksfhkshfkjfj
Hey i am in year 11 and for my alevels i have chosen maths physics and chemistry and further maths to do engineering , but i really dont want to do further maths as 4 alevels is just way to much for me and also i dont do it for gcse and ny collage wont let me drop it in the middle of the year . So if i pick just maths physics and chemistry than i would be able to go to a mediocre university, however if i did maths chemistry and biology i could do medicine at a higher level university a russel group for example . I like both bio and physics , though i an better at biology , but medicine is very long and also very isolated as you cant get a different degree easily after , also moving to another country is also difficult due to laws - for example the usa where you would have to study 3-6 years more even after you are fully qualified in the uk . But engineering wont be like that as it’s accepted in most places . If i was to do medicine i would 100% do dermatology as its very high paying and im also very passionate about skincare and the skin . However , engineers have more flexibility as i can do finance if i dont enjoy it and move countries more freely , also my main goal is a good income, so engineering sounds more appealing-but more risky in terms of salary . What should i do for alevels and wich courses does anyone recommend? Bio or physics ?


You don't need FM for the vast majority of engineering courses. I don't even think it's technically required for Oxbridge or Imperial.

You don't need biology to do medicine - only about 1/3 of medical schools erquier A-level Biology. Chem/Phys/Maths will let you apply to most medical schools.

You shouldn't plan for a single specialty at the outset when applying to medicine really. You will need to study the whole range of medicine in medical school for 5-6 years (and often many specialties have very limited coverage in the medical school curriculum), then work across the whole of medicine for at least 2 years as a foundation doctor. For dermatology specifically you'd then need to work across the whole of medicine for another 2 years before specialising in dermatology. So that's 9-10 years of "all of medicine" before you start specialising in dermatology - if you're only interested in dermatology, you may find it hard to get through that without burning out.

Also, dermatologists don't earn more than other doctors working in the NHS, all NHS doctors regardless of specialty are paid according to the same pay scheme (differences tend to arise due to out of hours commitments which I don't think are very heavy in dermatology). While there may be scope to earn a lot in private practice, this will a) only occur after you become a consultant and b) is dependent on a lot of factors (e.g. location, networking, your own entrepreneurial/business skills, etc).

Finally I'd note engineers can very well earn a good salary in the UK. If you think anything less than 6 figures is a "bad" salary then that's a you problem - because the reality is most people earn less than 6 figures and many can and do live very comfortably. If you consider e.g. a starting graduate salary below 40k "bad" for example, you may need to manage your expectations and gain a better understanding of the relative value of money. Also bear in mind salary is not the be all and end all and quality of life, work life balance, and less tangible benefits including e.g. pension schemes, flexible working opportunities, maternity/paternity cover, etc, are just as important although persistently ignored by school leavers.

Reply 2

Original post
by artful_lounger
You don't need FM for the vast majority of engineering courses. I don't even think it's technically required for Oxbridge or Imperial.
You don't need biology to do medicine - only about 1/3 of medical schools erquier A-level Biology. Chem/Phys/Maths will let you apply to most medical schools.
You shouldn't plan for a single specialty at the outset when applying to medicine really. You will need to study the whole range of medicine in medical school for 5-6 years (and often many specialties have very limited coverage in the medical school curriculum), then work across the whole of medicine for at least 2 years as a foundation doctor. For dermatology specifically you'd then need to work across the whole of medicine for another 2 years before specialising in dermatology. So that's 9-10 years of "all of medicine" before you start specialising in dermatology - if you're only interested in dermatology, you may find it hard to get through that without burning out.
Also, dermatologists don't earn more than other doctors working in the NHS, all NHS doctors regardless of specialty are paid according to the same pay scheme (differences tend to arise due to out of hours commitments which I don't think are very heavy in dermatology). While there may be scope to earn a lot in private practice, this will a) only occur after you become a consultant and b) is dependent on a lot of factors (e.g. location, networking, your own entrepreneurial/business skills, etc).
Finally I'd note engineers can very well earn a good salary in the UK. If you think anything less than 6 figures is a "bad" salary then that's a you problem - because the reality is most people earn less than 6 figures and many can and do live very comfortably. If you consider e.g. a starting graduate salary below 40k "bad" for example, you may need to manage your expectations and gain a better understanding of the relative value of money. Also bear in mind salary is not the be all and end all and quality of life, work life balance, and less tangible benefits including e.g. pension schemes, flexible working opportunities, maternity/paternity cover, etc, are just as important although persistently ignored by school leavers.


So which should I really do i am so stressed , my mum says doctor as it suits me the best and my dad says engineering as he thinks I’ll enjoy it. My best subject is biology and maths and i like them both , so its really just between medicine and engineering? Which one is more flexible , and how do I know which one i would like and is better for me , i dont really have any time to go and do work experience right now , however i worked in a pharmacy for a week and didnt really enjoy it as i had to stand up all day and was very drained and tired when i got home from talking to so many sick people , it was very fun as i like talking but very hard and exhausting. I havent done any work to do with engineering and im scared that not being like amazing at maths can bring me down as im much more confident in science . I would rather be doing the UCAT than the PAT , as im currently in a course at COMPOS that is about physics and maths and has those PAT style questions- and i wont lie i struggle alot with them . However i would much prefer working in an office in the city than in a hospital . Which one is best for me i have no idea and i have no passion
Original post
by jgdksfhkshfkjfj
So which should I really do i am so stressed , my mum says doctor as it suits me the best and my dad says engineering as he thinks I’ll enjoy it. My best subject is biology and maths and i like them both , so its really just between medicine and engineering? Which one is more flexible , and how do I know which one i would like and is better for me , i dont really have any time to go and do work experience right now , however i worked in a pharmacy for a week and didnt really enjoy it as i had to stand up all day and was very drained and tired when i got home from talking to so many sick people , it was very fun as i like talking but very hard and exhausting. I havent done any work to do with engineering and im scared that not being like amazing at maths can bring me down as im much more confident in science . I would rather be doing the UCAT than the PAT , as im currently in a course at COMPOS that is about physics and maths and has those PAT style questions- and i wont lie i struggle alot with them . However i would much prefer working in an office in the city than in a hospital . Which one is best for me i have no idea and i have no passion

You don't need to choose between them currently at all.

You can do maths/chem/physics and make a decision later towards the end of year 12/in the summer before year 13 - once you've done some medical work experience and have a better sense of whether you want to work in a healthcare environment.

That said everything you've said suggests medicine is not something you're really keen on and you seem to be just picking it up from parental interference. You've only expressed interest in one specific area of medicine (based on not really accurate reasoning about remuneration, which even if accurate isn't a good reason to commit to a vocation like medicine without some other motivating factor e.g. actually being interested in patient care and relationships with patients), what limited exposure to healthcare adjacent work you've done you've said you didn't enjoy, and you've stated you'd rather work in an office based environment anyway.

However as above, you don't need to make this decision now because biology is unequivocally not required to do medicine so you can just pick your subjects as above if that's aligned with your other interests and do some further work experience in a caring role towards the end of year 12/the summer before year 13 and make a decision on that basis.

Reply 4

Original post
by artful_lounger
You don't need to choose between them currently at all.
You can do maths/chem/physics and make a decision later towards the end of year 12/in the summer before year 13 - once you've done some medical work experience and have a better sense of whether you want to work in a healthcare environment.
That said everything you've said suggests medicine is not something you're really keen on and you seem to be just picking it up from parental interference. You've only expressed interest in one specific area of medicine (based on not really accurate reasoning about remuneration, which even if accurate isn't a good reason to commit to a vocation like medicine without some other motivating factor e.g. actually being interested in patient care and relationships with patients), what limited exposure to healthcare adjacent work you've done you've said you didn't enjoy, and you've stated you'd rather work in an office based environment anyway.
However as above, you don't need to make this decision now because biology is unequivocally not required to do medicine so you can just pick your subjects as above if that's aligned with your other interests and do some further work experience in a caring role towards the end of year 12/the summer before year 13 and make a decision on that basis.


Thank you i think i will do just that but do you know if further maths would be good if u chose engineering?? I really dont want to do it but so many universitys prefer people who do it , i have chosen it but scared i cant handle 4 alevels and im not that keen in maths anyways . Im scared it will limit my chances of getting into a russel group in the future - but if i pick medicine - maths bio chem are all subjects i enjoy so im super confident i can do really well in them - making my chances better for medicine in a russel group uni - i know degrees like economics and medicine really rely on the university to get better job opportunities, would engineering be like this ??
Original post
by jgdksfhkshfkjfj
Thank you i think i will do just that but do you know if further maths would be good if u chose engineering?? I really dont want to do it but so many universitys prefer people who do it , i have chosen it but scared i cant handle 4 alevels and im not that keen in maths anyways . Im scared it will limit my chances of getting into a russel group in the future - but if i pick medicine - maths bio chem are all subjects i enjoy so im super confident i can do really well in them - making my chances better for medicine in a russel group uni - i know degrees like economics and medicine really rely on the university to get better job opportunities, would engineering be like this ??


FM is certainly useful for when you're on an engineering degree simply because you'll cover a good chunk of that content in the course anyway, so having done it before makes it a bit easier when you're getting started. That said it's not generally required and you can well understand the material and as noted it's normally covered in the course anyway.

That said if you don't really like maths - do consider if engineering is the right option for you either. An engineering degree is generally a degree in applied maths and applied science. There's a lot of maths in an engineering course (as in - you'll be doing maths every single day for the entire degree).

You are incorrect about your assertion about medicine being uni depedent for job opportunities - in the UK it's actually one of the fields where which uni you go to has the least influence on your job opportunities. The only provider of graduate medical training posts in the UK is the NHS, and they take the GMC stance that all medical schools are equal, and in line with that to ensure no bias recruiters are blinded to your medical school (they just check this after you are otherwise found to be "hireable" for the post to ensure you did in fact graduate from medical school). Foundation post allocation is by algorithm which doesn't account for medical school at all (it's essentially random these days as I understand).

Engineering firms can recruit more heavily from some unis but this doesn't really correlate to the Russell Group status or not (plenty of strong unis for engineering that are well recruited from by engineering firms are not in the RG at all e.g. Bath, Loughborough, Strathclyde...).

If you prefer biology and chemistry though then take those. Bear in mind you don't need to take A-level Maths for medicine at all either. If you don't like maths then I'd probably suggest not taking it to A-level and not looking at engineering as a degree option really.

I'd also note just in relation to your earlier comment about engineerign graduates being able to go into finance related roles - this is true, but this is true of any degree. You can become an investment banker with a degree in music, a management consultant with a degree in classics, an accontant with a degree in history and politics. They don't care what subject you did at uni.

I think you're falling into the trap of trying to plan what your career will be in 30 years time and working backwards from there (which I do understand the rationale for and to a point is sometimes necessary) but in doing so you're ignoring the practical realities of what you are good at and enjoy doing now. Don't try and force a square peg (yourself) into a round hole (some career which actually doesn't really align with your interests and abilities). I would focus on picking A-level subjects aligned with your strenghts and interests and rest assured you will be able to find some degree course of interest (if you do want to go to uni) if you just continue following those interests, and regardless of what degree you do (or if you don't do one!) you can certainly get a good job in the end, but that is dependent on you and what you do to make yourself employable in terms of work experience and developing transferable skills, rather than subject specific content from your A-levels or degree (in most cases).

Unless you have a strong connection to a particular vocation you wish to pursue which requires a specifically accredited degree programme, you don't need to overthink your degree course so much...

Reply 6

Yeah thanksss - sorry for the miscommunication i ment that i do love maths and science but would much prefer doing 2 science a levels than 2 maths alevels - thats why i was considering medicine more as its more science than maths - i like both so its very hard i am just very scared about the further maths part because fm is better taken as a 4th alevel - and the workload is just too much in my opinion so doing a science instead of a maths seemed like a better option. I think im just going to pick maths physics and chemistry to keep both roles open - i do really like biology tho - im just so scared im not picking my a-levels correctly- its so annoying that i dont have any passions and i just want a well paying job that’s flexible :frown:

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