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Oral and Maxillofacial surgery?

Was just doing a bit of research there on pathways you can take after attaining a BDS at university and was quite interested in Oral and Maxillo-facial Surgery. The thing that put me off though was I was looking through a wiki article and it said that the average time needed to become an O.M.F.S. is 14-18 years!! Does this compare to other medical specializations related to surgery such as general, cardiology, orthopedic etc. like do they all take this long to specialize? I know for maxfax that you need a dual qualification in both med and dentistry so this is prob a big contributing factor to why it takes so long.
Also how does the salary compare to other specializations. Is it more than other specializations because the training is so long? Anyone who is currently thinking about doing this or is currently in hospital residency or even just knows a bit about this to give me a bit of help? Thanks.

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Reply 1
most medical specialisations takes years to obtain, the 14-18 years probably includes your dentistry degree, im currently studying molecular/medical microbiology as i want to do a second degree in medicine to specialise in clinical pathology so overall its going to take me at least 10 years. The extra 4-8 years also includes postgrad courses, as once completing medicine and dentistry you'll have to do post grad courses regarding maxillo-facial surgery and general surgery. My current degree thankfully is a Msc so i have an added boost but i'll still be looking at adding a few years through post grads since clinical pathology covers several disciplines.

I wouldn't worry about the amount of time it takes, in all fairness have you ever seen a young specialist in any medical field?

Salarywise its fairly similar to other specializations, its mostly determined by whether you stay in the nhs - salary can vary depending on experience and the hospital you work in (an average top end salary is around £65,000), or if you go into private practice in which case the salary is considerably higher.

Hope that helps :smile:
Reply 2
im a bit sketchy on the details but heres what i know - maxfax surgeons earn a lorra lorra money! its tough, but once you do it, its crazy money. i spoke to someone whose daughter is doing it, and asked whether she did medicine aswell, but he said no, you can do an msc or something in it. not 100% sure though. i dont think it takes as long as 14-18 years to start earning proper money mind you
Reply 3
you do earn proper money really quickly but then you do that in most medical fields, it takes a couple of years to kick in though, and you've got to remember that a lot of surgeons are a combination of private and nhs so they have salaries of £100,000 + . the 14-18 year i think refers mostly to the time spent in education as opposed to how long it takes to start earning.
Reply 4
ok i heard it was 20 years worth of studying with a great amount of pay at the end and even though it is a good profession i was advised against it.
You do a dentistry 5 year degree then a medical degree.i think 3/4 years..then you start as a junior doctor the lowest position and work you way up and study whilst working.
I might be a little wrong in some of it..this is what i remember...the guy just kept telling us not to do it but kept showing us pictures of his cars and said it had great benefits.
But it does look really interesting..i was considering it until i realised that i dont want to study 20 years extra
I think maxfax might be one of the longer specialisations to be honest...my dad did a specialisation in Ophthalmology and he did medicine for 5 years, eyes for 3 years and retina for 1 year... but the retina bit was optional. So I think about 8 years is the normal length of time for a specialising doc.

Although, with doing maxfax if you are one of the top in your year I think you can apply for a special fast track course that makes medicine only 3 years long, but I don't think many people get onto the course or many unis do it so it's REALLY competitive. Or if you were to apply for grad medicine then it's 4 years medicine.

it's something I want to do but everyone I talk to (who are not maxfax they are doctors) are all putting me off saying it takes too long, there will be too much debt and apparently it's hard to find a job. I didn't ask why though but that's what I was told... maybe it depends on where you are planning on living and the demand for such a specialist.
It does basocally take forever though, if you pass all your exams first time around you'd become a consultant at about.. 35 ish. Ollddd.
Reply 6
kookoo_koochoo
I think maxfax might be one of the longer specialisations to be honest...my dad did a specialisation in Ophthalmology and he did medicine for 5 years, eyes for 3 years and retina for 1 year... but the retina bit was optional. So I think about 8 years is the normal length of time for a specialising doc.

Although, with doing maxfax if you are one of the top in your year I think you can apply for a special fast track course that makes medicine only 3 years long, but I don't think many people get onto the course or many unis do it so it's REALLY competitive. Or if you were to apply for grad medicine then it's 4 years medicine.

it's something I want to do but everyone I talk to (who are not maxfax they are doctors) are all putting me off saying it takes too long, there will be too much debt and apparently it's hard to find a job. I didn't ask why though but that's what I was told... maybe it depends on where you are planning on living and the demand for such a specialist.
It does basocally take forever though, if you pass all your exams first time around you'd become a consultant at about.. 35 ish. Ollddd.


It seems much easier to just graduate with a BDS at 21/22 years old, get a few years experience, run your own clinic. I just can't imagine why you would do a medical degree after your dental degree.
yosrush
It seems much easier to just graduate with a BDS at 21/22 years old, get a few years experience, run your own clinic. I just can't imagine why you would do a medical degree after your dental degree.


its just a greater specialisation, and cases would be far more interesting.
5 years BDS
VT - 1-2 years
3-5 years medicine depending on where you go
Combination of foundation/med core years
5 years specialisation

I heard the salary was £250,000. Not 100% sure. Jobs are very sparse although with GDC and GMC registration to fall back on you can't really go wrong.

The work max fac do is incredible. I think to be part of that would be amazing.
yosrush
It seems much easier to just graduate with a BDS at 21/22 years old, get a few years experience, run your own clinic. I just can't imagine why you would do a medical degree after your dental degree.


I would do it for the lolz
Anyone know how much those guys earn? Oh i found out the training pathway by the way. Its as follows (starting with dentistry):

1. Undergraduate dental degree (BDS) - 5 years
2. Vocational training year (VT) - 1 year
3. Medical degree (MBBS/MD) - 3/4 years
4. Foundation years 1 and 2 - 2 years
5. Specialist training (CCT resulting in MRCS and FRCS) - 6 years

So if my math is correct that is 18 years average study after secondary school!! Not good:frown:
Reply 11
Biggillystyle
Anyone know how much those guys earn? Oh i found out the training pathway by the way. Its as follows (starting with dentistry):

1. Undergraduate dental degree (BDS) - 5 years
2. Vocational training year (VT) - 1 year
3. Medical degree (MBBS/MD) - 3/4 years
4. Foundation years 1 and 2 - 2 years
5. Specialist training (CCT resulting in MRCS and FRCS) - 6 years

So if my math is correct that is 18 years average study after secondary school!! Not good:frown:


Aye, but keep in mind that you are going to get paid for vocational/foundation years, so I guess it's only really a dental degree and a medical degree, so 8-9 years of unpaid learning compared to your 5 years BDS, not all that bad!
Personally though, I would just be happy enough as a dentist; 5 years of uni is hardcore enough for me...
yosrush
Aye, but keep in mind that you are going to get paid for vocational/foundation years, so I guess it's only really a dental degree and a medical degree, so 8-9 years of unpaid learning compared to your 5 years BDS, not all that bad!
Personally though, I would just be happy enough as a dentist; 5 years of uni is hardcore enough for me...


You also can work and bring in a pretty decent wage when studying medicine according to my oral med clinician.
yer I think wage is decent but bear in mind how much studying is involved... then you'd need to work or get a job in order to fund yourself through the degree in the first place. It would be pretty hard and stressful.
kamsha
ok i heard it was 20 years worth of studying with a great amount of pay at the end and even though it is a good profession i was advised against it.
You do a dentistry 5 year degree then a medical degree.i think 3/4 years..then you start as a junior doctor the lowest position and work you way up and study whilst working.
I might be a little wrong in some of it..this is what i remember...the guy just kept telling us not to do it but kept showing us pictures of his cars and said it had great benefits.
But it does look really interesting..i was considering it until i realised that i dont want to study 20 years extra

your wrong there, i've been reading heavily into this as its probably what i shall be striving to do in the end

heres a rough guide which i found:

http://careers.bmj.com/careers/advice/view-article.html?id=1445
Reply 15
You shouldn't do any job for money, you should only do it if you are going to enjoy it.

And I can say surgery is the most hellish job out there.
Reply 16
shiftyK42
You shouldn't do any job for money, you should only do it if you are going to enjoy it.

And I can say surgery is the most hellish job out there.



Are you a theatre nurse?
Reply 17
Biggillystyle
Anyone know how much those guys earn? Oh i found out the training pathway by the way. Its as follows (starting with dentistry):

1. Undergraduate dental degree (BDS) - 5 years
2. Vocational training year (VT) - 1 year
3. Medical degree (MBBS/MD) - 3/4 years
4. Foundation years 1 and 2 - 2 years
5. Specialist training (CCT resulting in MRCS and FRCS) - 6 years

So if my math is correct that is 18 years average study after secondary school!! Not good:frown:



... however, times are changing, VT is scheduled to hit 2 years soon. so when was the pathway written?? because mayyyyybe on the tiny little offchance, training will shorten, fingers crossed.
anyhow, i think its worth it as long as you end up somewhere that needs it. money to be made in china and hong kong, facial reconstruction like lifting cheek bones. thats my aim, but at the rate im going, i doubt ill even make the 5 years of dentisty :frown:
mushoo
... however, times are changing, VT is scheduled to hit 2 years soon. so when was the pathway written?? because mayyyyybe on the tiny little offchance, training will shorten, fingers crossed.
anyhow, i think its worth it as long as you end up somewhere that needs it. money to be made in china and hong kong, facial reconstruction like lifting cheek bones. thats my aim, but at the rate im going, i doubt ill even make the 5 years of dentisty :frown:


Shuttup, don't be so negative :wink:
Reply 19
kookoo_koochoo
Shuttup, don't be so negative :wink:


no you shut up! grr, and get better, i miss you =)

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