Oxford discriminates against ‘second rank’ universities

What do you lot make of this article?

http://www.oxfordstudent.com/ht2005wk6/news/oxford_discriminates_against_%E2%80%98second_rank%E2%80%99_universities

pk

Reply 1

Drogue

19

Blake's speaking out of his proverbial ass:

"All degrees are of equal worth and to ignore this is to ignore the quality assessments and external examinations in place"

While there are some semblance of external assessment in university exams, anyone who's seen Oxbridge finals papers and compared them to a university that asks for EE grades, will find a stark difference. True, there's probably little difference between Oxbridge and many top universities exams, but there's no way the exams of some universities much lower down the tables are as hard as those of top universities.

Oxbridge selects pretty much only straight A people, and yet only 15% or so get 1sts. To say that people who get EE or a levels close to that could pass an Oxbridge exam and get a first seems silly to me.

I can't wait until someone does a test by getting some people at uni to take exams from different universities and see the difference in grades. A 1st from Oxbridge may be worth something similar to a first from London, Warwick, York, Nottingham et. al., but all firsts are not the same, and all degrees are not the same.

Reply 2

Bezza

2

Not trying to single out any particular university, but if I got this exam paper in my end of year exams, I would be a very, very happy man! It gives you 3 hours to do 14 questions, all of which appear to be a-level standard or below http://www.inf.aber.ac.uk/pastpapers/physics/exam2004/semester1/PH06020.html Unfortunately I think my exams might be a bit harder than this :frown:

I completely agree with drogue, though it's probably unlikely anyone would ever be able to test students from different universities, as students from less prestigious unis would realise that they would just be devalueing their degree.

Reply 3

d750

8

Bezza

Not trying to single out any particular university, but if I got this exam paper in my end of year exams, I would be a very, very happy man! It gives you 3 hours to do 14 questions, all of which appear to be a-level standard or below http://www.inf.aber.ac.uk/pastpapers/physics/exam2004/semester1/PH06020.html Unfortunately I think my exams might be a bit harder than this :frown:

I completely agree with drogue, though it's probably unlikely anyone would ever be able to test students from different universities, as students from less prestigious unis would realise that they would just be devalueing their degree.

I agree that standards are certainly not the same across all universities. But you're being unfair to Aberystwyth by including that paper. It clearly says 'semester 1' at the top, so you can't compare it to end of year exams. And the course is 'Introduction to Mathematical Methods for Physicists' - it's not a maths paper for mathematicians.

Reply 4

Bezza

2

d750

I agree that standards are certainly not the same across all universities. But you're being unfair to Aberystwyth by including that paper. It clearly says 'semester 1' at the top, so you can't compare it to end of year exams. And the course is 'Introduction to Mathematical Methods for Physicists' - it's not a maths paper for mathematicians.

I'm a physicist and the maths collection I sat at the beginning of this term (ie January) was considerably harder than that, and on more advanced concepts. My point was that I could have quite happily sat that exam before I came to university, whereas in the first couple of weeks of my maths lectures, we were on completely new topics. The same thing goes for their maths exam at the end of the second semester (ie May) http://www.inf.aber.ac.uk/pastpapers/physics/exam2004/semester2/PH06520.pdf

I'm not trying to be unfair to Aberystwyth, I was just trying to find an example to back up my point of view.

Reply 5

Font

OP

Bezza

Not trying to single out any particular university, but if I got this exam paper in my end of year exams, I would be a very, very happy man! It gives you 3 hours to do 14 questions, all of which appear to be a-level standard or below http://www.inf.aber.ac.uk/pastpapers/physics/exam2004/semester1/PH06020.html Unfortunately I think my exams might be a bit harder than this :frown:

I completely agree with drogue, though it's probably unlikely anyone would ever be able to test students from different universities, as students from less prestigious unis would realise that they would just be devalueing their degree.

had a look at those questions; No offence to anyone, but those questions are easy, from a mathematicians point of view. A lot of the stuff on that paper you posted could be done by a bright GCSE student. Oh, and what is the 1st semester? year one of uni, 1st term? I'm sure the papers are harder in other unis, which is a perfect example of how degrees vary, and in a way justifies that grading system that is highlighted in the oxford article i posted. But i also think that people with the potential, and skill, who do achieve highly in the entrance test should have have their undergrad institution being a hinderance in the future - this is different to gettnig a first from any uni; a first is achieved with increasing ease, the further down the uni tables you go, generally, i think (relatively talking..i.e. top ten about same...then 10 20 similar,etc...like a sliding scale system)

Bezza

To say that people who get EE or a levels close to that could pass an Oxbridge exam and get a first seems silly to me.

I also belive this to some extent. I've applied to read maths at various unis, and (dont take this the wrong way or anything) but KCL maths degree is regarded as being easier than one at imperial, or Oxford. Two friends at each of the respective unis compared some topics and found that a lot of the oxford maths stuff in first year was in thea 'lower down uni' third year and a lot of the stuff was further maths work done at A-levels.

But i dont think there is that much difference between courses in the top 10, such as between Ox/cam and Imperial/ucl/warwick, or whatever. Any qualms/opinions?

PK

Reply 6

shiny

12