Schoolgirl wins appeal to wear jihab at school Watch

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shadowkin
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#61
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#61
(Original post by englishstudent)
However, it is still giving out an extremely negative message.
what about the girls that try and hitch their skirts up as high as possible? Aren't they sending out a negative message about women in 'western culture'?

i.e. they are objects.
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technik
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#62
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#62
(Original post by shadowkin)
what about the girls that try and hitch their skirts up as high as possible? Aren't they sending out a negative message about women in 'western culture'?

i.e. they are objects.
they're just being stupid
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Annik
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#63
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#63
(Original post by shadowkin)
what about the girls that try and hitch their skirts up as high as possible? Aren't they sending out a negative message about women in 'western culture'?

i.e. they are objects.
they are usually chavs.. and should be ignored
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Tyler Durden
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#64
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#64
(Original post by shadowkin)
what about the girls that try and hitch their skirts up as high as possible? Aren't they sending out a negative message about women in 'western culture'?

i.e. they are objects.
Yes but Islam has systematically deprived women of rights for hundreds of years. The scale is totally different. The girls who hitch up there skirts and walk around like teeps are making a bad choice but at least they are free to do so. Islamic teaching removes womens' freedoms. And the pretence of "choice" is just that - a pretence.
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shadowkin
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#65
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(Original post by yawn)
I see the result as setting an undesirable precendent in British law resulting in flagrant breaches of discipline within schools.
What's new?
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Annik
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Mad Caddie)

Also, Sikhs have an obligation to where a turban, you could go as far as to say they are forced from birth to grow their hair long and tie it in a turban, is this also repression, and should they be made to remove the turban?

.
My family is sikh and i have really long hair..I competely hate it and feel repressed myself actually. Im not at all religious but its a culture thing..

fair enough if people actually have religious beliefs and what to express that it their clothing.. (But all the younger generation of my family resents their religion now..we're all planning a major trip to the hair cutters at uni)
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Lawz-
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#67
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#67
(Original post by shadowkin)
what about the girls that try and hitch their skirts up as high as possible? Aren't they sending out a negative message about women in 'western culture'?

i.e. they are objects.
I dont see how a woman in a short skirt is necessarily saying shes an "object" - its saying she's sexual - which is the simple truth - its like a muscular man wearing a tight t-shirt - is he giving off a negative view of men in western culture?

Theres nothing wrong with facing up to the fact that we are sexual creatures - whats the problem is if people become obsessed with image, and care about little else - its a matter of degree.
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shadowkin
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#68
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#68
(Original post by englishstudent)
Yes but Islam has systematically deprived women of rights for hundreds of years.
Not quite.
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Lawz-
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#69
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(Original post by Annik)
My family is sikh and i have really long hair..I competely hate it and feel repressed myself actually. Im not at all religious but its a culture thing..

fair enough if people actually have religious beliefs and what to express that it their clothing.. (But all the younger generation of my family resents their religion now..we're all planning a major trip to the hair cutters at uni)
Isnt the long hair thing based in religion? Or is it just a cultural thing?
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Lawz-
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#70
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#70
(Original post by shadowkin)
Not quite.
How not?
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MC
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#71
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(Original post by englishstudent)
Come on. Look at the different levels of extremity. Go to Afghanistan and you see scenes such as this.
Scenes like that only cause shock to you as you have grown up in a different culture and environment. I take it you are aware that to the present day many Afghan women, amongst other still wear the burkha, even though they are not enforced to, simply because they have taken the active decision to, so much for oppression don't you think?

(Original post by englishstudent)
They are forced, under Islamic law, to cover themselves from head to toe. The headscarf is nowhere near as extreme I accept. However, it is still giving out an extremely negative message.
They are not forced under Islamic law. Islam says a women must dress conservatively, and in a non-provocative manner. If a woman so chooses that this means to dress in a burkha, than so be it, they are not forced, unless under fundamentalist regimes such as the Taliban.

The negative stigma attached to the headscarf has come about as a result of the media and post 11/9 fear-mongering where we are led to believe any woman wearing a scarf or any man with a beard is a potential terrorist - this as you and I know, is false. Had you asked for peoples oppinions on the headscarf or burkha pre 11/9, you would have got a different response.

(Original post by englishstudent)
These girls do not have any inate desire to wear headscarves, they do so because they have been brought up in a culture which has a long history of oppressing women and the headscarf is a remanent of something far more sinister.
You cannot speak for the individual choices of these girls, and it is a mis-conception to think that every veiled Muslim girl is eager to breakout of her attire. Ultimately it is their choice to wear it, though there will be some who are forced, I acknowledge this. What could be sinister about a woman in a headscarf?

(Original post by englishstudent)
Tolerance is hugely important. However, it is foolish to tolerate oppression and intolerance.
Assumption of beliefs, acts and ideologies which may not be factual is also hugely important. Do you believe all Muslim girls are forced to wear their chosen attire?
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Annik
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#72
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#72
(Original post by englishstudent)
Yes but Islam has systematically deprived women of rights for hundreds of years. The scale is totally different. The girls who hitch up there skirts and walk around like teeps are making a bad choice but at least they are free to do so. Islamic teaching removes womens' freedoms. And the pretence of "choice" is just that - a pretence.
what if the islamic women has grown up with such beliefs and accepts them??
Obviously Im not saying the views are correct.
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Lawz-
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#73
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(Original post by Mad Caddie)
Scenes like that only cause shock to you as you have grown up in a different culture and environment. I take it you are aware that to the present day many Afghan women, amongst other still wear the burkha, even though they are not enforced to, simply because they have taken the active decision to, so much for oppression don't you think?

Please - you're joking right? You dont think there is pressure to cover up? You think that went out with the Taliban? Seriously?
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technik
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#74
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(Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
Isnt the long hair thing based in religion? Or is it just a cultural thing?
id re-read the first line
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shadowkin
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(Original post by englishstudent)
The girls who hitch up there skirts and walk around like teeps are making a bad choice but at least they are free to do so. Islamic teaching removes womens' freedoms.
It's all a case or freedom to or freedom from...

(Original post by Lawzzzzz)
I dont see how a woman in a short skirt is necessarily saying shes an "object" - its saying she's sexual - which is the simple truth - its like a muscular man wearing a tight t-shirt - is he giving off a negative view of men in western culture?
Men will never be seen as objects though.
It's demeaning because of rest of the package that goes with it.
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MC
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#76
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(Original post by Annik)
My family is sikh and i have really long hair..I competely hate it and feel repressed myself actually. Im not at all religious but its a culture thing..
Would you say the turban is a symbol of repression in Sikhism?

Out of interest, why do Sikhs wear turbans, I don't actually know.
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Annik
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#77
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(Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
Isnt the long hair thing based in religion? Or is it just a cultural thing?
its based on religion but at all the end of the day, none of the teens in my family are religious and so we only keep our hair that length coz of the fear of what our parents would do if we did otherwise..
Obeying parents is like the main culture teaching!

But, fortuntely its only my family in india who would actually not talk to me ever again (the older ones are really religious)..my mum is really cool bout it all and she says i can cut my hair as short as I want as soon as I get to uni..

Get the scissors ready!!
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Vienna
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#78
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(Original post by technik)
quite correct. we heard it in the car coming back from lunch on the radio and there were 5 of us lads from class and we were all pretty irritated at it.
And I can envisage that there will be millions more of you across the country. Millions of young Britons being irritated in this way does not lead to tolerance, does not lead to a multicultural, assimilated society, it breeds more anger and more prejudice. The liberal left and the muslim community really have to take a look at what they are doing, because this is going to end violently.
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Tyler Durden
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#79
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(Original post by Annik)
what if the islamic women has grown up with such beliefs and accepts them??
Obviously Im not saying the views are correct.
Then it is sad. But clearly she can do whatever she likes. She may wear a burkha, a headscarf anything at all when at home or in the street.

However, and this is the main point, schools are well within their rights not to tolerate what they see to be a symbol of oppression. The government may decide that keeping state and church separate is fundamental to a society because of the countless flaws in religion. If they do so then that should be respected.
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Lawz-
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#80
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(Original post by Mad Caddie)

They are not forced under Islamic law. Islam says a women must dress conservatively, and in a non-provocative manner. If a woman so chooses that this means to dress in a burkha, than so be it, they are not forced, unless under fundamentalist regimes such as the Taliban.

The negative stigma attached to the headscarf has come about as a result of the media and post 11/9 fear-mongering where we are led to believe any woman wearing a scarf or any man with a beard is a potential terrorist - this as you and I know, is false. Had you asked for peoples oppinions on the headscarf or burkha pre 11/9, you would have got a different response.
Entirely untrue. The issue of what is seen as "Modest attire" is a matter open for interpretation - if you honestly think that all over the world its each individual muslim woman who comes to the decision that that means a fully covered body and face then you are being rather niave about it I think.

Women are required to wear such things in many places in the world - that have never been touched by teh Taliban - Go to NW london for instance - you'll see it regularly.

The fact of 9/11 has brought issues in Islam to light that werent thought of before - but people DONT have a problem with it because they link it to terrorism - they link it to a denial of personal choice - Which is what we value in the West.
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