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TSR Christian Society

Reply 2220

Calumcalum

14

Original post by KimberleyJane

I watch your N.T. Wright ones :h:

You didn't watch the NT Wright one yesterday :frown:

Reply 2221

KimberleyJane

Original post by Calumcalum

You didn't watch the NT Wright one yesterday :frown:

OP

A question for you all....

You're in a situation where you're explaining to someone the Gospel...you explain about God and man and the break down of the relationship between God and man through sin and how it's put right through Jesus and his death on the cross.

The person you're explaining it to is very receptive to what you says and when you've finished they say, 'OK, I get all that about God and sin and that somehow Jesus means we can all be saved. But how does the death of someone, of the son of God, on a cross lead to someone's sins being forgiven?'

How would you respond?

Reply 2223

marille

Original post by RK

A question for you all....

You're in a situation where you're explaining to someone the Gospel...you explain about God and man and the break down of the relationship between God and man through sin and how it's put right through Jesus and his death on the cross.

The person you're explaining it to is very receptive to what you says and when you've finished they say, 'OK, I get all that about God and sin and that somehow Jesus means we can all be saved. But how does the death of someone, of the son of God, on a cross lead to someone's sins being forgiven?'

How would you respond?

I wish I knew the answer to that myself. :o:

I sympathise with the point that, if God just wanted to let people off the hook, he could have done that without putting Jesus through the horror of death by crucifixion. So I don't think that can be all there is to it.

I'd probably talk first about the symbolism of it all - Jesus is the lamb of God, the new sacrifice. And the point of sacrifice in the OT wasn't so much the animal itself, but rather the way in which the act affected the relationship between God and the one performing it.

Ultimately, though, it's a mystery. In the true sense of the Greek word ????????? (mysterion) - not something that has yet to be worked out, but "that which, being outside the unassisted natural apprehension, can be made known only by divine revelation". When the divine Word becomes flesh, it's never going to be straightforward, and when add to that the fact that this is all to do with relationships ... well, yes, it's going to be confusing. I s'pose one point you could make is that, through his Son, God reaches out to all aspects of sinful humanity, including death.

Maybe someone will be able to give a more straightforward answer than me, though! (Maybe Paul? :p:

) I've seen other people write theology essays on this, but I haven't yet.

EDIT: Lol, I guess TSR doesn't like Greek characters, which makes above (now "?????????") even more mysterious. Go here if you're curious about the word.

(edited 13 years ago)

Original post by RK

...But how does the death of someone, of the son of God, on a cross lead to someone's sins being forgiven?'
How would you respond?

What you have called "the Gospel" is really only half the message.
Calvary was to enable the Spirit to be given (Gal.3:13-14).
You can believe Jesus died for your sin until the cows come home but until you receive that life (as detailed in Acts 2, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) you are still "in the flesh", in sin.

God hasn't just said "I forgive", man would sin all the more.
God has given power over sin, a new and living way, something better.

Reply 2226

lilac spooge

12

This video is amazing :biggrin:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2413111

Reply 2227

Facticity

Original post by + polarity -

I loled.

Reply 2228

Facticity

Original post by RK

A question for you all....

You're in a situation where you're explaining to someone the Gospel...you explain about God and man and the break down of the relationship between God and man through sin and how it's put right through Jesus and his death on the cross.

The person you're explaining it to is very receptive to what you says and when you've finished they say, 'OK, I get all that about God and sin and that somehow Jesus means we can all be saved. But how does the death of someone, of the son of God, on a cross lead to someone's sins being forgiven?'

How would you respond?

Yes a tough one that seems to pop up again and again. Well I think it is important to recognise the meaning of the sacrifice and the afterlife of the Christian faith. Death is not the condemnation of God to those people who perhaps chose not to follow Him. Rather death is the absence of God, it is the absence of a God who is love, life, salvation and goodness. To fall to sin is to fall to Satan or whatever being. This being is the lack of God, the absence of all that God is. God does not condemn, merely that God awaits with arms wide open, Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light, those who follow me shall recieve eternal life". He does not say "those who do not follow me shall be cast into the darkness by my hand". Rather, that is our choice. So to go back to the original question, surely it is the Crucifixion and the Resurrection, that is to save us, and believing in Christ. So when Jesus dies, it is the shaking of this bond upon the earth to sin, it is the link between God and man, a covenant. So when Jesus dies, it is God destroying this bond and opening a new path to Him. When we die, if we have not followed God we fall, so Christ came to change this. By Christ dying, our sins are paid for in the debt we accumulate to be paid in death, the Crucifixion is representative of mans fall throughout eternity (Jesus cries "It is done"), and the resurrection symbolic of new life and a path to God blessing us to bless all we can (the giving over of authority to the Apostles). Therefore, the Resurrection is required.

Also if we consider the Crucifixion, we do see that the temple was shaken, God unleashes a power through the temple flowing to the back room. Here where only the high priests and pharisee are allowed, no commoner or normal civilian would be allowed in here without being "holy". However, God breathes through this, shaking the corrupt temple, tearing the cloth covering this room. Symbolic of the power of salvation and God opening a new path , allowing anyone to come to Him. Whomever they be, be it sinner, loser, weak or ill. The promise of salvation, the redemption and promise for all through the rest of History, with a personal God.

I think these things are all part of the symbol and meaning of the crucifixion and go some ways to answering your question. It is a hard question, but then again, our God works in mysterious ways.

God Bless :smile:

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 2229

Facticity

I just found this..... And found it quite odd, especially the last part regarding the saints.

Any thoughts?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/christianethics/animals_1.shtml

Reply 2230

marille

Original post by Facticity

I just found this..... And found it quite odd, especially the last part regarding the saints.

Any thoughts?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/christianethics/animals_1.shtml

I remember reading someone's GCSE RE textbook a few years ago, which talked a lot about "what Christians believe". I didn't agree with a lot of it, and even the stuff I didn't have a problem with was often contentious. It's weird.

Reply 2231

Facticity

Original post by marille

I remember reading someone's GCSE RE textbook a few years ago, which talked a lot about "what Christians believe". I didn't agree with a lot of it, and even the stuff I didn't have a problem with was often contentious. It's weird.

I know exactly what you mean, I found myself reading an A level text book on world religions with a rather perplexed look on my face. I do not know who writes these, however I have to questions their expertise in Religion, at least in Christianity. It's no wonder there is so much confusion about Christianity these days :rolleyes:

Reply 2232

jcockerill1

Not strictly religious, but I do believe in Jesus and God and am sort of a Protestant. Went to a CofE school for primary, so been around religion all my life!

Reply 2233

+ polarity -

21

Original post by Facticity

It's no wonder there is so much confusion about Christianity these days :rolleyes:

I agree!

And some of these threads :facepalm2:

Reply 2234

d123

17

Original post by Facticity

I know exactly what you mean, I found myself reading an A level text book on world religions with a rather perplexed look on my face. I do not know who writes these, however I have to questions their expertise in Religion, at least in Christianity. It's no wonder there is so much confusion about Christianity these days :rolleyes:

I've had the same experience! I think the thing is that a lot of Christians don't believe the same things; you can't always generalise and say 'Christians believe in animal rights' for example, because there's such a variety of thought, so whenever school textbooks try to simplify the issues involved into such a formula, it doesn't necessary represent individual Christians' views.

Reply 2235

+ polarity -

21

Original post by jcockerill1

Not strictly religious, but I do believe in Jesus and God and am sort of a Protestant. Went to a CofE school for primary, so been around religion all my life!

Cool.

Reply 2236

Facticity

Original post by jcockerill1

Not strictly religious, but I do believe in Jesus and God and am sort of a Protestant. Went to a CofE school for primary, so been around religion all my life!

Welcome

Reply 2237

Facticity

Original post by + polarity -

I agree!

And some of these threads :facepalm2:

I know bro, sometimes I just think, seriously! It has gotten to the point where the average mass seem to think they know more about the Christian ethos as compared to the scholars :facepalm:

Whilst never even having read the Bible :facepalm2:

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 2238

Facticity

Original post by d123

I've had the same experience! I think the thing is that a lot of Christians don't believe the same things; you can't always generalise and say 'Christians believe in animal rights' for example, because there's such a variety of thought, so whenever school textbooks try to simplify the issues involved into such a formula, it doesn't necessary represent individual Christians' views.

Well in the reductive society we live in, quick and often inaccurate straw mans are what the public looks for. However, this only serves to promote confusion and misunderstanding regarding many different people and faiths. :rolleyes:

Reply 2239

d123

17

Original post by Facticity

Well in the reductive society we live in, quick and often inaccurate straw mans are what the public looks for. However, this only serves to promote confusion and misunderstanding regarding many different people and faiths. :rolleyes:

I agree that it has bad consequences, I was just really offering an explanation for why you might disagree with what's written in textbooks - it would be much more sensible for all textbooks on religion to come with a disclaimer or something, pointing out that they only show some of the views and that there are a variety of interpretations and opinions. Luckily, I think most specialist teachers are aware of this - certainly at my school, we were taught to make it clear when writing about Christianity (and also Hinduism) that there really isn't a consensus about a lot of things.

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