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    (Original post by rainbowbex)
    Agree

    I think that also explains it really well

    Last exam in three hours. Might have had a slight mental breakdown last night (lots of crying) was praying about how crappy I felt, then checked my phone and facebook to two messages from people at church. Just set me off, and I text my mentor and her reply set me off again

    Thanks for all the responses re: sex before marriage btw It's an odd subject to broach at church, least if you guys decide to judge and hate me I don't know you IRL.
    Hope exam went well sure it did!
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    I think that many people today mistake 'love' for lust. As the great St. Augustine once said, lust distracts the soul from God's love. If we are to have sex then it should be in a marriage licensed by God.
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    Hey guys, pentecostal here dropping by to say hi, read the past posts for discussion I hope I can contribute more to it some time soon
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    (Original post by Alex-jc123)
    My assumption concerning the 'aura of authority' was one applied to a general selection of men, who are reasonably educated and mature - not the type commonly seen on chavy streets.

    I have never said that women are devoid of what men possess either; it would be foolish of me to state that men are closer to God or that they naturally excel women in most things. The biblical fact is: they have different roles. This is something that God himself put in place, for what was the purpose of Eve's creation but to give comfort to mankind and to help populate the Earth? The relationship between man and wife is one of co-operation, with the man taking lead as the main co-operator (though not as a dominant tyrant as some anti-sexist liberals presuppose!). If you want to see what God says about it then you only have to read one of many examples supporting this:

    As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. (NIV, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35)
    I really don't think any Christian should be using terms like 'chavvy streets'. We are to love and respect all men, and recognise the image of God in them, especially they happen to be poor and marginalised in our society.

    I still fundamentally disagree with your point about men and women. Even if they do have different [spiritual] roles, there is still no real evidence of this idea that men naturally possess authority. I'm talking about men of all social classes when I say that they do not necessarily possess authority. In general, I find rather that an 'aura of authority' seems to belong to the least humble - the very group who ought not to be leading us.

    I would also say that your reading of the Genesis text is rather confusing for me. God created Eve precisely to share in Adam's role - they were not given distinct roles at all.
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    (Original post by rainbowbex)
    I think there is another argument in what is 'sex' full intercourse only, or oral? mutual masturbation? I'm sorry if anyone is offended by me bringing this up.
    I'm quite concerned by the fact that society has somehow got the idea that Christianity has an injunction against 'sex before marriage' that refers only to 'full' intercourse. The Bible never says 'do not have sex before marriage' in those terms. The verses say things like 'keep the marriage bed pure', 'do not commit adultery', 'he who looks at a woman lustfully has committed adultery with her in his heart'.

    I think what we have to draw from this is that we need to jealously guard our sexuality, and try to abstain totally from sexual contact before marriage. I think the view that Jewish society, and the early church had about the issue is along these lines.
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    I was looking for the exact first behind 'let him who is without sin cast the first stone' and came across this site which claims that it wasn't in the original manuscripts. I'm confused?

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/.../117-31.0.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_a...en_in_adultery
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    (Original post by Meus)
    I was looking for the exact first behind 'let him who is without sin cast the first stone' and came across this site which claims that it wasn't in the original manuscripts. I'm confused?

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/.../117-31.0.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_a...en_in_adultery
    They are correct, it was not in the earliest manuscripts that we have. Because so many people appreciate the story it is included in most modern bibles (such as NIV/ESV, which use the earliest manuscripts), often with a footnote informing the reader that the story may not be inspired. Translations such as the NKJV or KJV, which use later manuscripts which are more abundant and contain the story, do include it.
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    As far as I know, it was in the original MSS, just with Luke's gospel rather than John's.
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    (Original post by dreiviergrenadier)
    I still fundamentally disagree with your point about men and women. Even if they do have different [spiritual] roles, there is still no real evidence of this idea that men naturally possess authority. I'm talking about men of all social classes when I say that they do not necessarily possess authority. In general, I find rather that an 'aura of authority' seems to belong to the least humble - the very group who ought not to be leading us.
    Just out of interest, why do you think they have different spiritual roles? And what do you think they are?

    It's been interesting reading back over the conversation about the roles of men and women, both inside and outside the church. I'd pretty much describe myself as as far away from complementarianism as it's possible to get - those who participate in relationships have different roles, certainly, but I think these are determined much more by their individual capacities and personalities than by their genders. In general, I'm much more interesting in forming opinions of people's strengths and abilities based on who they are and what they do, rather than what bits they've got. :p:
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    (Original post by marille)
    Just out of interest, why do you think they have different spiritual roles? And what do you think they are?

    It's been interesting reading back over the conversation about the roles of men and women, both inside and outside the church. I'd pretty much describe myself as as far away from complementarianism as it's possible to get - those who participate in relationships have different roles, certainly, but I think these are determined much more by their individual capacities and personalities than by their genders. In general, I'm much more interesting in forming opinions of people's strengths and abilities based on who they are and what they do, rather than what bits they've got. :p:
    I don't think they do, other than the responsibility for teaching younger men and women (like Titus 2:4). I'm just saying that, even if one thinks the opposite, Genesis doesn't really give one much to go on.

    I used to think that roles should be divided up solely by the skills that people possess, but I keep being troubled by the story of Moses. He did not have the necessary skills (public speaking), and God told him to get on with it anyway. So I'm left with a rather vague 'people should do what they feel called to do, but this should be tested in accordance with the community around them and their skills and capabilities'.
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    (Original post by Alex-jc123)
    I think that many people today mistake 'love' for lust. As the great St. Augustine once said, lust distracts the soul from God's love. If we are to have sex then it should be in a marriage licensed by God.
    I recall reading an article somewhere where a study was conducted involving lots of chemicals I don't know and it was found that having sex produced a large batch of chemicals which simulated the feeling of being in love. So you wouldn't be too far off there by saying people confuse lust and love. Though, this may be in a slightly different context to how you meant it

    (Original post by dreiviergrenadier)
    I really don't think any Christian should be using terms like 'chavvy streets'. We are to love and respect all men, and recognise the image of God in them, especially they happen to be poor and marginalised in our society.

    I still fundamentally disagree with your point about men and women. Even if they do have different [spiritual] roles, there is still no real evidence of this idea that men naturally possess authority. I'm talking about men of all social classes when I say that they do not necessarily possess authority. In general, I find rather that an 'aura of authority' seems to belong to the least humble - the very group who ought not to be leading us.

    I would also say that your reading of the Genesis text is rather confusing for me. God created Eve precisely to share in Adam's role - they were not given distinct roles at all.
    I agree with this quite strongly - I often find myself confused when I meet Christians who think that Gods blessing is on the family who's wife stays at home having kids and looking after the house whilst the husband is the 'breadwinner'. I have only met such people a couple of times when out at large Christian events however each and every time I am given very vague and often questionable justification for it. Just because a woman can have kids doesn't mean their role is to only have kids (not to say you shouldn't either as I believe being a mother is a spiritual gift), often however it degrades to some vague retelling of the socio-historic period in which Jesus existed and how their households were run - which I don't think is much of a valid argument.
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    (Original post by Calumcalum)
    I think the problem isn't so much that the church has been too strict in saying no to sex before marriage; the problem is that it too often portrays sex as an intrinsically bad, or at least neutral thing, as if sex within marriage is more a "permissible" activity that we should be reluctant even within marriage to do. Actually, we need to communicate that we think sex is a brilliant thing, and that the reason we're strict on sex before marriage isn't because we think sex is bad and that in marriage we're just allowed to 'give in' to that temptation, but rather it is because we recognise the beauty of sex within marriage that we are strict in other contexts so that we may preserve and make all the more special that beauty.
    Sadly I have run out of rep.


    (Original post by rainbowbex)
    Last exam in three hours. Might have had a slight mental breakdown last night (lots of crying) was praying about how crappy I felt, then checked my phone and facebook to two messages from people at church. Just set me off, and I text my mentor and her reply set me off again

    Thanks for all the responses re: sex before marriage btw It's an odd subject to broach at church, least if you guys decide to judge and hate me I don't know you IRL.
    How did your exam go?

    Why is it an odd subject? Surely every church should have at least some teaching on it.

    And I doubt anybody hates you as we'd all be very big hypocrites :yep:
    (Original post by dreiviergrenadier)
    I'm quite concerned by the fact that society has somehow got the idea that Christianity has an injunction against 'sex before marriage' that refers only to 'full' intercourse. The Bible never says 'do not have sex before marriage' in those terms. The verses say things like 'keep the marriage bed pure', 'do not commit adultery', 'he who looks at a woman lustfully has committed adultery with her in his heart'.

    I think what we have to draw from this is that we need to jealously guard our sexuality, and try to abstain totally from sexual contact before marriage. I think the view that Jewish society, and the early church had about the issue is along these lines.
    :yes: I think we try to get as close to the boundaries as possible and claim we don't break the letter of the law, but we are certainly not in keeping with the spirit and it tends not to help us.

    (Original post by Facticity)
    Chemicals
    I think you are thinking of oxytocin
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    (Original post by Lantana)
    Sadly I have run out of rep.
    Have some of mine :awesome:

    I think you are thinking of oxytocin
    And vasopressin! Although I would have said genuine love is dependent on those too... hmm.
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    (Original post by Calumcalum)
    Have some of mine :awesome:

    And vasopressin! Although I would have said genuine love is dependent on those too... hmm.
    Ta, Would serotonin also have an effect?
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    (Original post by Lantana)
    Ta, Would serotonin also have an effect?
    Low serotonin is linked with feelings of being in love too, and Prozac is supposed to prevent people from falling in love (:eek:). Have you had your first year exams yet?
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    (Original post by Lantana)
    I think you are thinking of oxytocin
    Thats the one! :awesome:

    I think.... :ninja:
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    Re: sex before marriage discussion before which I realise I am coming into quite late on, I would say I am waiting for marriage also. :yes: (I hope I last!)
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    (Original post by Calumcalum)
    Low serotonin is linked with feelings of being in love too, and Prozac is supposed to prevent people from falling in love (:eek:). Have you had your first year exams yet?
    That's rather counter-intuitive. And nope - they're in July. I have 2 weeks of lectures about the leg/ elderly left.
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    (Original post by Calumcalum)
    Low serotonin is linked with feelings of being in love too, and Prozac is supposed to prevent people from falling in love (:eek:). Have you had your first year exams yet?
    If you have too much serotonin, can that prevent you from feelings of love/being loved?
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    (Original post by Lantana)
    That's rather counter-intuitive. And nope - they're in July. I have 2 weeks of lectures about the leg/ elderly left.
    Why do you say it's counter-intuitive? Serotonin does seem to be quite enigmatic and paradoxical though, I'm convinced my lecturers keep saying too little serotonin and too much serotonin can do the same thing other neurotransmitters are much simpler good luck for your exams when they come then!

    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    If you have too much serotonin, can that prevent you from feelings of love/being loved?
    It's very complex so it depends where there's too much serotonin and stuff, but it can inhibit those kinds of feelings (Prozac increases serotonin activity in between synapses, so too much serotonin caused by Prozac is likely to be why it has that effect).
 
 
 
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