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Facticity
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#4481
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#4481
(Original post by greeneyedgirl)
For band stuff for Church: Delirious?, Emu Music (pretty sure all their tabs etc are available free online)
I have delirious? But I've never heard Emu Music, I'll check them out thanks.

(Original post by Lantana)
oh dear, I could go on for a while...anyhow: Downhere/Lifehouse/Jars of clay/Red/nevertheless/tenth avenue north/sanctus real/fee

or Demon hunter or HB (their finnish ones are better) or flyleaf or thousand foot krutch or...

maybe you should just look through here [SIZE="1"]please ignore my v. old profile pic[/SIZE]
Thanks I'll check these out. My non-Christian rock collection of music boarders on unhealthy however for some reason I am woefully lacking in much Christian rock, I thought for sure some people here could help! Thanks!

:hello:
worship music does grate sometimes, especially when I'm feeling really down and it's all 'God is amazing and isn't life brilliant?' which makes me want to throw a brick at it. :ditto: with the anger thing, although I would also include passion as well.
I get what you mean as well. Note:
(Original post by Me)
I've never thought of it as representing God's anger but certainly representing a passionate uprising musically is what I see in rock.
:awesome:

:yep: me too. Though I've yet to find any symphonic metal or italian christian bands...
I'm going to look for some now Its funny though, I came on to get some new stuff for church however I've ended up getting mainly things I wouldn't play in church - though I'm glad, I needed to expand my Christian music because it was getting lack lustre. :yes:

(Original post by marille)
I've got quite into Gungor recently. They call themselves "liturgical post-rock", and though I can see the influence, I think they're a bit too lyrical for that - definitely hear some Muse influence though. : )

I can definitely here the Muse influence - I quite like this... I shall look for more. Thanks

P.S. I think there's more than two or three of us liberals here. :p: Granted, we are perhaps disproportionately vocal...
I think I had a somewhat inaccurate view of being liberal - upon doing some research, I think I may be a lot more liberal than I thought :ninja:

(Original post by JB Johnstone)


I mean that God, through the Holy Spirit, word for word moved men to write the original copies of the scriptures.
I might say inspired, however I wouldn't say word for word.
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IPlayThePiccolo
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#4482
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#4482
Hey can anyone help me on a 'what does this verse mean' related question?
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greeneyedgirl
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#4483
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#4483
(Original post by Facticity)
I have delirious? But I've never heard Emu Music, I'll check them out thanks.
We did "Come here the angels sing" at Church and was great success, so thoroughly recommend Emu

(Original post by IPlayThePiccolo)
Hey can anyone help me on a 'what does this verse mean' related question?
I can try (but may fail)
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IPlayThePiccolo
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#4484
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#4484
(Original post by greeneyedgirl)
I can try (but may fail)
ooo thanks. So I was reading Ecclesiastes 3 and found this: He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end. (verse 11)

It's the He has set eternity in the human heart bit that I'm pondering over. I can't work out what it means...
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randdom
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#4485
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#4485
(Original post by Tzarchasm)
I flopped my chemistry paper (really, really badly). Unfortunately, this has
probably extended my road to medicine... Again.

Finding it so hard to re-focus at the moment.
I know it is really hard when things don't go the way that you hoped that they would. At times like this it can be really hard to focus on god and to remember that he is there and that he has a plan. It is a plan that may not seem clear to you right now and may not for a long time but there will be a reason.

If you are struggling to focus maybe go and speak to someone you trust who you could meet up and pray with. Just talking it through and giving control to god can be really hard but really helpful when you think that things aren't going the way that you would like.
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greeneyedgirl
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#4486
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#4486
(Original post by IPlayThePiccolo)
ooo thanks. So I was reading Ecclesiastes 3 and found this: He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end. (verse 11)

It's the He has set eternity in the human heart bit that I'm pondering over. I can't work out what it means...
Hmmm not sure. I would take a stab at the fact He is offering human's eternal life from what our heart's believe in...but thats just a stab!




Oh also, prayer request, my dad does some mentoring with children from disadvantage backgrounds, broken homes etc, and the kid he's mentoring at the minute took an overdose (luckily didn't die, and is now being monitored etc.) and while my dad obviously can't go into detail with background of child etc, it's obvious prayers are needed because he really must be feeling low to attempt to kill himself. So please can we pray that he realises his worth, my dad can show him God's love, and that his situation improves!
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dreiviergrenadier
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#4487
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#4487
(Original post by JB Johnstone)


I mean that God, through the Holy Spirit, word for word moved men to write the original copies of the scriptures.
I don't think the Bible is inspired in that sense, no.
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dreiviergrenadier
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#4488
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#4488
(Original post by sparklysparkles)
Ohhhh, totally forgot about eggs In fairness, we keep our own chickens and use their eggs... out of curiosity, would you have a problem with that? I don't know any vegans, though I know Christians who have differing views on the ethics of vegetarianism, ranging from "God gave us the creatures" and "From Acts, 'everything is clean'" to "we didn't eat meat before the Fall".
It depends how you're treating them If people are 'rescuing' animals, like those about to be slaughtered etc, and taking care of them (and then using their eggs), then I don't have as much of a problem, as long as a great deal of care is taken to ensure that their living conditions are satisfactory. If they're bought from a commercial source, then I would disapprove. I also think we have an obligation to try to undo the harmful effects of selective breeding for these animals.

I only really know one other vegan, we're unhappily few Although, vegan christians clearly exist (http://theveganchristian.blogspot.com/)!

I find some christian arguments for meat-eating a bit strange though. People say we were 'meant' to eat meat because of the Creation story, and yet we are specifically told only to eat plant in Genesis 1! The command about eating meat only appears after the Flood. And yet I've never heard anyone arguing in favour of polygamy on the basis of later passages...

(Original post by sparklysparkles)
I don't blog about law subjects, really, used to do a bit of politicking on a previous blog but decided to focus on something fun that non-law friends and people could relate to! If you've got any particular questions, I'd happily answer a pm though And incidentally, I always use Stork (and latterly, the 2kg Tesco/Asda-own substitute tubs) interchangeably with butter... I bake so much I need to find ways to cheaply substitute expensive ingredients as much as possible without compromising on taste!
Thanks, I'll bear that in mind when I have Scottish law-related questions! I can't use Stork from a tub though (it contains buttermilk), only in the foil. I have no idea why companies decide to change the ingredients based on the size/type of container :confused:


(Original post by sparklysparkles)
I must say, I can't see (potentially inflammatory statement, but there you go...) how people can be Christians without being evangelical with their faith; it always struck me as quite a silly label. If you're not, you're essentially avoiding Jesus saying both "I am the way, the truth and the life; no-one comes to the Father except through me" and also "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit".

EDIT: and also, :ditto: - not heard it put like that before, but that's a good way of thinking about it, I think
I think in this sense most people would be evangelical. But you could have an evangelical liberal christian, and an evangelical evangelical christian! By evangelical I largely mean views like Biblical inerrancy, sola scriptura, and probably lots of hand-waving
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sparklysparkles
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#4489
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#4489
(Original post by dreiviergrenadier)
I can't use Stork from a tub though (it contains buttermilk), only in the foil. I have no idea why companies decide to change the ingredients based on the size/type of container :confused:
They're for slightly different things, afaik: the tub stuff is for cakes, while the foil stuff has a harder consistency and is really only meant for pastry.


I think in this sense most people would be evangelical. But you could have an evangelical liberal christian, and an evangelical evangelical christian! By evangelical I largely mean views like Biblical inerrancy, sola scriptura, and probably lots of hand-waving
Good to know that's what other people mean by evangelical, I always found it really hard to pin down a definition besides that clearly denoted by the word itself!
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Alex-jc123
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#4490
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#4490
(Original post by dreiviergrenadier)
But as I said, it wasn't just that Adam 'listened to Eve'. Adam was there, accepting what the serpent said. He was every bit as guilty as Eve. It is not as though she deceived him.

The lesson from this clearly is not that men should no longer listen to women. That's a fairly outrageous suggestion... What he told them in the future was that they would be under a curse. These curses are patently undesirable. The Biblical ideal is clearly portrayed as being the pre-Fall situation. To suggest that the curses are normative just seems bizarre. But if man ruling over women is the result of the Fall, then the balance is restored by Christ (Romans 5:12-). The very presence of the curse suggests that Adam did not rule over Eve in any way in the garden, and it is to this relationship of equality that we now strive, thanks to Christ's triumph over sin. It seems that whatever 'headship' means (it is far from obvious), it does not mean 'authority over'.
Sincere apoloies for the late reply; I have been tied down with a combination of exams and extra shifts at work. I also admit that I forgot to reply to your message too.

I disagree as the 'Pre-Fall' ideas of marriage and submissiveness were emulated in the times of Christ and the Early Church. But I think you assume that I believe the phrase 'rule over thee' to mean an autocratic governance of marriage on behalf of the husband; on the contrary, I believe that men are in a position of responsibility and trust, and when these are broken then there must be a brief separation of man and wife (although not divorce!) before such things can be restored. After all, God rules over us but he does not do so in an autocratic or dominating way as we are allowed to embrace our freewill and make indepedent decisions rather than be blind slaves unto His will (something Satan wants us to be to him!) However, we seem to have completely different ways of looking at the scriptures so I think it would be futile for us to speculate further on this. I also happen to come from a family where women dominate its affairs and decisions so I can obviously appreciate that females are able to exercise authority like men do; but I depart from neo-liberalism on the grounds of morality rather than practicality.
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dreiviergrenadier
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#4491
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#4491
(Original post by sparklysparkles)
They're for slightly different things, afaik: the tub stuff is for cakes, while the foil stuff has a harder consistency and is really only meant for pastry.
Ah, I see. Some other products are a bit different though, the ingredients vary depending on whether you buy them alone or in a multipack :confused:
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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#4492
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#4492
(Original post by rainbowbex)
Does anyone else have close Christian friends leaving? Some of them I'm ok with, because I know we'll still talk and another I want to ask to stay, but I know I can't because it wouldn't be fair and besides which, I have no right to. I can't even ask them to stay in touch.
My two best friends (one Presbyterian, one Anglican) can't keep in touch with me (long story). It causes me a lot of pain :cry2: I miss them very much but I know they pray for me, and I try to offer up my own suffering to relieve the Presbyterian friend of hers We will never all be together again and we probably won't speak or see each other again properly very soon... but I'm slowly trying to accept this

Cuddles :hugs:


(Original post by greeneyedgirl)
Oh also, prayer request, my dad does some mentoring with children from disadvantage backgrounds, broken homes etc, and the kid he's mentoring at the minute took an overdose (luckily didn't die, and is now being monitored etc.) and while my dad obviously can't go into detail with background of child etc, it's obvious prayers are needed because he really must be feeling low to attempt to kill himself. So please can we pray that he realises his worth, my dad can show him God's love, and that his situation improves!
Prayer said

On a separate note, does anyone ever go to church, hear the readings and feel like that reading is directly relevant to something they've been thinking about? Like God speaking to them through the Scripture that day, that time, that place? Or am I the only one? :o:
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dreiviergrenadier
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#4493
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#4493
(Original post by Alex-jc123)
Sincere apoloies for the late reply; I have been tied down with a combination of exams and extra shifts at work. I also admit that I forgot to reply to your message too.

I disagree as the 'Pre-Fall' ideas of marriage and submissiveness were emulated in the times of Christ and the Early Church. But I think you assume that I believe the phrase 'rule over thee' to mean an autocratic governance of marriage on behalf of the husband; on the contrary, I believe that men are in a position of responsibility and trust, and when these are broken then there must be a brief separation of man and wife (although not divorce!) before such things can be restored. After all, God rules over us but he does not do so in an autocratic or dominating way as we are allowed to embrace our freewill and make indepedent decisions rather than be blind slaves unto His will (something Satan wants us to be to him!) However, we seem to have completely different ways of looking at the scriptures so I think it would be futile for us to speculate further on this. I also happen to come from a family where women dominate its affairs and decisions so I can obviously appreciate that females are able to exercise authority like men do; but I depart from neo-liberalism on the grounds of morality rather than practicality.
No worries, take as long as you like (I recently just replied to someone after over month's delay...)!

I don't mean to be unnecessarily contrary, but I don't think I'm arguing for a different way of looking at Scripture here. We're both commenting on the state of gender relations in the early chapters of Genesis (among other things), taking the view that whatever is there is authoritative.

I see no justification for saying that this idea about gender-relations exists pre-Fall. I don't think it does. Neither does the idea of 'loving leadership' appear to be the meaning of Genesis 3:16 - that expresses domination/subjugation, a power struggle. I don't think that your view is that men should be domineering, I just think that the kind of relationship complentarians often argue for in a marriage is ambiguous. I don't think they can realistically find any Biblical distinction between the kind of submission man and woman should practice. There are some suggestions as to how this works out in practice, but I think these either really don't amount to anything, or they become domineering.
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Calumcalum
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#4494
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#4494
(Original post by Facticity)
Hey guys, I'm looking for some new music. Could you suggest me some stuff? Preferably bands so that I could use them in church for when we play People I already have: Hillsong/Hillsong London, Matt Redman, Tim Hughes, Soul Survivor, Jesus Culture, Chris Tomlin, Ben Cantelon, David Crowder Band. But yea, any and all suggestions welcome!
Christy Nockels
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Calumcalum
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#4495
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(And to clarify: the confusion about evangelicalism usually comes down to a confusion of evangelism and evangelicalism. Evangelism is the more obviously defined one - it's essentially evangelising. Evangelicalism is slightly different; it's a theological movement and particular type (through spread across denominations) of Christianity characterised by a high view of scripture, an emphasis on Jesus' death and resurrection, an emphasis on a personal response/conversion to the gospel, and an emphasis on evangelism - interesting to note that only 1 of the 4 main characteristics of evangelicalism is actually evangelism! And so evangelical isn't, as is commonly thought, just the adjective for 'evangelism'; that would be 'evangelistic'. Hope this clears things up a bit :-) )

Definitely a fair few evangelicals here, though the authority of scripture question is probably where most people come closest to abandoning evangelicalism (and is also probably the hardest to pinpoint, since a 'high' view of scripture has been interpreted in many ways). I'd say I'm just about evangelical :awesome:
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Calumcalum
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#4496
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#4496
Also, if I could ask, what is the general feeling about assisted dying among your church communities? I was at church yesterday and there was an announcement about praying against legalisation of it etc, "for many reasons, the main one being that... it's just anti-Christian". But it seems to me like it's one of those things which is accepted by most Christians without actually thinking through a solid scriptural basis for it. Although I'm definitely pro-life when it comes to abortion, I can't really see as much good theological reason to be anti-euthanasia (nor anti-legalisation of euthanasia), so found it quite awkward hearing that announcement... any help??
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randdom
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#4497
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I am strongly opposed to assisted suicide (I actually have just made a post about it in the thread in society). However I reached that decision before becoming a christian and my reasoning is probably not as based in scripture as it should be.

One quote that I read spoke about no man being able to stay alive when it was his time to die and similarly no person should choose to die before it is their time. I think that it is Ecclesiastes 8:8 but I could be wrong with the reference.
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RK
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#4498
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#4498
(Original post by Calumcalum)
Also, if I could ask, what is the general feeling about assisted dying among your church communities? I was at church yesterday and there was an announcement about praying against legalisation of it etc, "for many reasons, the main one being that... it's just anti-Christian". But it seems to me like it's one of those things which is accepted by most Christians without actually thinking through a solid scriptural basis for it. Although I'm definitely pro-life when it comes to abortion, I can't really see as much good theological reason to be anti-euthanasia (nor anti-legalisation of euthanasia), so found it quite awkward hearing that announcement... any help??
As well as the ideas that we are created by God and God is ruler over our lives and is the only one who can chose when we are born and when we die, I guess it can also lead to a slippery slope of people feeling forced in to it so as not to be a burden on their families, or worse still people actually being forced in to 'choosing' to commit suicide in this way by their families who no longer want to support them.

From a biblical point of view such things would definitely cause people not to honour their father and mother (or love their neighbour etc), but instead be forcing them to choose to die before they might want to if the decision was completely up to them. You cannot love someone else as yourself if you chose to encourage them (or indeed force them) to die to for your own selfish reasons.

And sadly that is a very real and probable side effect should euthanasia be legalised and to so to oppose it would be to honour your mother and father and also to eliminate the chance of being in a situation where you are tempted to help someone die for your own gain.
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sparklysparkles
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#4499
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#4499
(Original post by Calumcalum)
Also, if I could ask, what is the general feeling about assisted dying among your church communities? I was at church yesterday and there was an announcement about praying against legalisation of it etc, "for many reasons, the main one being that... it's just anti-Christian". But it seems to me like it's one of those things which is accepted by most Christians without actually thinking through a solid scriptural basis for it. Although I'm definitely pro-life when it comes to abortion, I can't really see as much good theological reason to be anti-euthanasia (nor anti-legalisation of euthanasia), so found it quite awkward hearing that announcement... any help??
I think of it as a general principle of God being in control & in charge of life and therefore also when it ends, not sure if I've got anything specific for that though, I think it's mostly just accepted as being wrong with the Christians I know.
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dreiviergrenadier
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#4500
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(Original post by Calumcalum)
Also, if I could ask, what is the general feeling about assisted dying among your church communities? I was at church yesterday and there was an announcement about praying against legalisation of it etc, "for many reasons, the main one being that... it's just anti-Christian". But it seems to me like it's one of those things which is accepted by most Christians without actually thinking through a solid scriptural basis for it. Although I'm definitely pro-life when it comes to abortion, I can't really see as much good theological reason to be anti-euthanasia (nor anti-legalisation of euthanasia), so found it quite awkward hearing that announcement... any help??
What kind of cases are we talking about here? It's probably quite important to consider that we're not necessarily just talking about end of life, terminally ill scenarios. Let's say, for example, a person is disabled but suicidal. They are unable to take their own life due to their disability, and many campaigners would want a doctor to be able to assist them in dying.

Theologically, I struggle to find any reason to allow some of the key premises in pro-euthanasia arguments - that we are at liberty to choose to die, or that the value of life is determined by the level of pleasure/suffering in it. If the latter is true, it seems to me as though a person ought to be allowed to elect to die if he thinks the remainder of his life will, on balance, contain more suffering and pain than pleasure (for example, a severely depressed person). This will have some rather unfortunate consequences for those on the margins of society, or those in deep poverty (and I think our duty to them biblically is clearly one of compassionate care instead).

I think Randdom makes some good points in her post too - I am very worried about the situation in, say, the Netherlands (where eldery patients are often afraid to go into hospitals, because 'euthanasia' without consent is widespread, for reasons such as 'needing beds'). I do not think it can be kept within strict enough conditions to prevent these kind of tragedies.

I think (as Randdom also points out) that there are some good prophylactic reasons for keeping it illegal too. If we allow euthanasia, money, effort and time goes into providing those services, at the expense of care. This then shifts the focus from supporting patients to killing them, and will probably make it more likely that people will elect for euthanasia when otherwise they wouldn't want to (if care were better). I think this kind of thing has already happened with abortion - because it was legalised, money that could have been spent on assisting women with children through school/uni, providing proper sex education, childcare etc has been diverted, and abortion is now seen as the only real option for many women.
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