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Laus
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#1381
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#1381
(Original post by d123)
For all of those, my answer is that the first few chapters of Genesis are not literally true. I could go into this in more detail, but I believe that they are myth/to be used in liturgy/poetry etc, but not the literal truths. They contain theological truths, for example, there is a God, humans have an important place in creation. I don't believe that the world was created in six days or that it is only 6000 years old, or that Adam and Eve actually existed.
Oh. Seems a bit silly to be so unclear. The Christians I know take it literally, but I know there are different interpretations. It seems a big dodgy that people can pick and choose what is literal and what is allegorical. :confused:
RK
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#1382
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#1382
(Original post by Laus)
Oh. Seems a bit silly to be so unclear. The Christians I know take it literally, but I know there are different interpretations. It seems a big dodgy that people can pick and choose what is literal and what is allegorical. :confused:
Not really. My understanding is that parts of the early Bible (bits of genesis) were never interpreted literally until fairly recently. It's only over the last few hundred years that there has beena growth in people taking it literally.

I'm told that if you look back at some people who wrote about the Bible long long ago (1500-2000 years ago then you'll find them not taking those chapters literally and it implies they were never meant to be taken literally.)

Though where I'd potentially differ from d123 is that I can see a situation in which Adam and Eve did indeed exist if you take it that the first people were actually the first people which God had contact with, so the first believers. Not that this is something mentioned in the Bible, it's something suggested to fill the gaps and is just one of many possible explanations for what those early chapters mean. What is most important though to understand what those early chapters actually do say and what that means rather than get too invovled in worrying about what they don't say.
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d123
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#1383
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#1383
(Original post by RK)
Not really. My understanding is that parts of the early Bible (bits of genesis) were never interpreted literally until fairly recently. It's only over the last few hundred years that there has beena growth in people taking it literally.

I'm told that if you look back at some people who wrote about the Bible long long ago (1500-2000 years ago then you'll find them not taking those chapters literally and it implies they were never meant to be taken literally.)

Though where I'd potentially differ from d123 is that I can see a situation in which Adam and Eve did indeed exist if you take it that the first people were actually the first people which God had contact with, so the first believers. Not that this is something mentioned in the Bible, it's something suggested to fill the gaps and is just one of many possible explanations for what those early chapters mean. What is most important though to understand what those early chapters actually do say and what that means rather than get too invovled in worrying about what they don't say.
I'd never thought of it that way before, but I'd be prepared to accept that interpretation.
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d123
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#1384
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#1384
Does anyone have a favourite bible verse/verses they'd like to share?
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RK
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#1385
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#1385
(Original post by d123)
Does anyone have a favourite bible verse/verses they'd like to share?
I'm not sure why but the one in my signature (Ephesians 2:8-10) has always stuck with me since I first heard is a couple of months back during a 'Christianity Explored' group I was doing.
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d123
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#1386
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(Original post by RK)
I'm not sure why but the one in my signature (Ephesians 2:8-10) has always stuck with me since I first heard is a couple of months back during a 'Christianity Explored' group I was doing.
My favourite is Isaiah 40: 28-end

28 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
The LORD is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He will not grow tired or weary,
and his understanding no one can fathom.

29 He gives strength to the weary
and increases the power of the weak.

30 Even youths grow tired and weary,
and young men stumble and fall;

31 but those who hope in the LORD
will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles;
they will run and not grow weary,
they will walk and not be faint.

It means a lot to me since I first heard it when I was 14 and going through a rough stage.
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RK
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#1387
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#1387
(Original post by Laus)
Perhaps people could post perplexing questions and whoever is about could try to answer them.

For instance, did Abel and Cain have sex with their mother in order to procreate; if so, who did their children have sex with?

How did Chinese/Black/White etc. people emerge, if everyone descended from Adam and Eve?

If other people were made elsewhere, why are these people not made reference to early on?

Why is there no mention of dinosaurs?

How can the earth be 6000(?) years old when there are fossils that are millions of years old?
I think these were answered with the comment about not taking the ealry chapters literally.

On the topic of dinosaurs, there i equally no mention of many animals that exist today, that does not mean the Bible says these animals do not exist, just that they are not mentioned. What the Bible does say in Genesis 1:25 is that God made all the creatures which moved along the ground. Why can this not also include dinosaurs?


If God is all-knowing, then why did he create the world? He knew full well that man would sin and that everything would go to pot, yet he went ahead with it anyway! I know there is the freewill argument but this still doesn't explain why he created the world against the odds, knowing that people would suffer; knowing that he would have to send a deluge and start over, even!
Maybe we just can't yet comprehend why God created the World. What I will pick up on here though, is your comment that 'God is all-knowig'. If this is the case, then surely he also knows what is yet to come and knowing that may well make everything else tat has gone before worth while

If God is forgiving and benevolent, why is there evil and suffering, hell etc.?

If God really loves us the way He claims to loves us, then you'd think he'd put things to right. Use his omnipotence for good, y'know.
My understanding is that some of the evil comes from Satan and that Satan was also a creation of God, but who is left by God to be like he is. Why not then ask ourself why God let's Satan have influence over anything? I'm not sure I have the answer to that, maybe it is to help us appreciate God more? Anyone got anything from the Bible to help us with this?

Other evil, or at least problems and suffering etc can be traced back to sin - not necessarilly of the person who is suffering or has problems, but the sin of someone. Again my understanding of sin is that is was not originally part of Gods creation, but is now and so we have to deal with it as we are all sinners and comment sins ourself no matter how hard we try not to. The good news is that once again will come a time without sin and without all the pain and suffering we see around us in the World. This is Gods plan. And it is through putting our faith in Jesus Christ and having our sins forgiven by God's grace that we can be a part of that future.
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RK
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#1388
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#1388
(Original post by d123)
My favourite is Isaiah 40: 28-end

28 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
The LORD is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He will not grow tired or weary,
and his understanding no one can fathom.

29 He gives strength to the weary
and increases the power of the weak.

30 Even youths grow tired and weary,
and young men stumble and fall;

31 but those who hope in the LORD
will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles;
they will run and not grow weary,
they will walk and not be faint.

It means a lot to me since I first heard it when I was 14 and going through a rough stage.
That is a nice quote for when you're feeling down.

At my Baptism last weekend I was given a quote from the Pastor at church for a verse near that you've just quoted, Isaiah 41:10

So do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be dismayed, for I an your God
I will stengthen you and help you;
I will uphold you with my rightous right hand.

It seems another good one to remember when things may seem tough
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*Dreamer*
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#1389
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#1389
(Original post by Laus)
Perhaps people could post perplexing questions and whoever is about could try to answer them.

For instance, did Abel and Cain have sex with their mother in order to procreate; if so, who did their children have sex with?

How did Chinese/Black/White etc. people emerge, if everyone descended from Adam and Eve?

If other people were made elsewhere, why are these people not made reference to early on?

Why is there no mention of dinosaurs?

How can the earth be 6000(?) years old when there are fossils that are millions of years old?

If God is all-knowing, then why did he create the world? He knew full well that man would sin and that everything would go to pot, yet he went ahead with it anyway! I know there is the freewill argument but this still doesn't explain why he created the world against the odds, knowing that people would suffer; knowing that he would have to send a deluge and start over, even!

If God is forgiving and benevolent, why is there evil and suffering, hell etc.?

If God really loves us the way He claims to loves us, then you'd think he'd put things to right. Use his omnipotence for good, y'know.

These are just a few questions that puzzle me. :iiam:
We might not have any 100% correct answers to these questions, but what I can say is that Christianity, religion or any spiritual ideologies will never be clear cut, hence all of the different denominations, casts even within one whole religion. Therefore maybe my answer to these perfectly valid questions would totally contradict somebody else of equal belief.

Perhaps this is a 'discussable' issue in itself.

God bless x
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J9127
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#1390
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#1390
(Original post by randdom)
I have the same problem. I don't mind praying out loud when it is just me but I struggle when i am in a group. I know that it is irrational but I really find it hard.

I have done it a few times but it still gets me quite anxious


The book sounds good I will look into it
I have the same problem. Like when I pray, its like I'm having a chat with God, but in front of other people it seems a bit odd... Like the conversations we have are kinda personal and I don't like the thought of other people listening in!

Hi everyone bdw... I'm new
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NJA
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#1391
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#1391
(Original post by J9127)
I have the same problem. Like when I pray, its like I'm having a chat with God, but in front of other people it seems a bit odd... Like the conversations we have are kinda personal and I don't like the thought of other people listening in!

Hi everyone bdw... I'm new
Hi, I would only pray out loud in a group if it was a group concern.
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randdom
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#1392
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#1392
(Original post by J9127)
I have the same problem. Like when I pray, its like I'm having a chat with God, but in front of other people it seems a bit odd... Like the conversations we have are kinda personal and I don't like the thought of other people listening in!

Hi everyone bdw... I'm new
:wavey: welcome!

That is exatly how I feel. I guess I am just scared that I am going to get it wrong. I know that it is silly because it isn't really something that you can get that wrong but it is still hard

I will get there eventually.
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J9127
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#1393
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#1393
(Original post by Laus)

1) Did Abel and Cain have sex with their mother in order to procreate; if so, who did their children have sex with?

2) How did Chinese/Black/White etc. people emerge, if everyone descended from Adam and Eve?

3) If other people were made elsewhere, why are these people not made reference to early on?

4) Why is there no mention of dinosaurs?

5) How can the earth be 6000(?) years old when there are fossils that are millions of years old?

6) If God is all-knowing, then why did he create the world? He knew full well that man would sin and that everything would go to pot, yet he went ahead with it anyway!

7) If God is forgiving and benevolent, why is there evil and suffering, hell etc.?

8) If God really loves us the way He claims to loves us, then you'd think he'd put things to right. Use his omnipotence for good, y'know.

These are just a few questions that puzzle me. :iiam:
Hey, I'll give you my perspective on your questions, but it might take awhile!

1) How did the sons of Adam procreate?

Although the Bible doesn't mention who were the wives of Cain, Abel and Seth, I think it is probably fair to say that there was some incest going on, but most probably it was between them and their sisters. If you look in the Bible you will find that Abraham was married to his half sister Sarah and they had a child together.

While this is today unacceptable behaviour, sexual relationships between members of the family were not condemned by God until in Leviticus, which is believed to have come about between 550-400 BC.

Why the need for incest? There wasn't anyone else on the earth other than Adam and his family, therefore it was a necessity in order to procreate. Due to this, it is probably accurate to assume that the children of Cain, Abel and Seth probably had children with their cousins.

Check out this link

2) How did different races emerge?

After the flood, Noah and his family were the only inhabitants of the earth.
Genesis 11:1 - And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech therefore it is safe to assume they were also of one race.

The same chapter of Genesis tells the story of the Tower of Babel. Basically, after the flood, the people on the earth - the descendants of Noah were all living together

Genesis 11:4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."

However, God decided to "confuse their language" so that they would not understand each other. I think this was partially due to the fact that God had given the instruction to Noah that his descendants should "fill the earth" - something that they couldn't do if they were living in one place together, the fact they were trying to "make a name for themselves" wasn't something God liked and also God saw how powerful man was becoming and he knew they would use this power for evil.

So after the creation of different languages, the people left the site where they were and were scattered around the earth in groups of those who spoke the same languages as them. This can be argued to be the start of different races.

What is a race? On a simple level, different skin colours, different languages and customs.

What determines skin colour? The pigment melanin. Variation in skin color is largely due to genetics. As a general pattern people from tropical regions and higher altitudes (hence greater UV light exposure) have darker skin than people from subtropical regions. So basically, as the people moved around the world to places with different climates, their skin basically adjusted, however at first the differences in skin colours and features wouldn't have been that dramatic, but over the years and through the generations changes occured.

It could be argued that this could also be due to the human equivalent of unconscious selective breeding, where basically the characteristics and genes in certain people which were more suited to the climate of the place were they were living in, were dominant and more easily passed on to their offsprings. E.g, those who live in Africa have darker skin as it is necessary in order to protect them from the harmful rays of the sun and to lower the chances of sun burn/skin cancer. Therefore the genes for darker skin/higher levels of melanin became dominant and therefore were passed on.

So basically as the descendants of Noah branched off into smaller groups, as they intermarried and moved into different parts of the world with different climates and geographical features, "races" were created as now, the groups had different characteristics from each other, which only got stronger and more defined over a period of time.

Check this link!
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Laus
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#1394
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#1394
Thanks for your responses, guys. I shall reply shortly.

Just a quick question, who is Seth?

Also, "Inbreeding may lead to a higher proportion of congenital birth defects." Everyone must be related to everyone, if we all descended from two people.

I will address the other posts later.
J9127
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#1395
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#1395
(Original post by Laus)
Thanks for your responses, guys. I shall reply shortly.

Just a quick question, who is Seth?

Also, "Inbreeding may lead to a higher proportion of congenital birth defects." Everyone must be related to everyone, if we all descended from two people.

I will address the other posts later.
Adam and Eve's third son.
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J9127
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#1396
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#1396
(Original post by randdom)
:wavey: welcome!

That is exatly how I feel. I guess I am just scared that I am going to get it wrong. I know that it is silly because it isn't really something that you can get that wrong but it is still hard

I will get there eventually.
Thank you . Same, i trip over my words, but like you I will hopefully get there sometime,
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d123
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#1397
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#1397
(Original post by RK)
That is a nice quote for when you're feeling down.

At my Baptism last weekend I was given a quote from the Pastor at church for a verse near that you've just quoted, Isaiah 41:10

So do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be dismayed, for I an your God
I will stengthen you and help you;
I will uphold you with my rightous right hand.

It seems another good one to remember when things may seem tough
I like that
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Mexangel
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#1398
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#1398
(Original post by RK)
Hi Mexangel welcome to the society

Thanks a lot!
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Mexangel
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#1399
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#1399
(Original post by Laus)
Perhaps people could post perplexing questions and whoever is about could try to answer them.

For instance, did Abel and Cain have sex with their mother in order to procreate; if so, who did their children have sex with?

How did Chinese/Black/White etc. people emerge, if everyone descended from Adam and Eve?

If other people were made elsewhere, why are these people not made reference to early on?

Why is there no mention of dinosaurs?

How can the earth be 6000(?) years old when there are fossils that are millions of years old?

If God is all-knowing, then why did he create the world? He knew full well that man would sin and that everything would go to pot, yet he went ahead with it anyway! I know there is the freewill argument but this still doesn't explain why he created the world against the odds, knowing that people would suffer; knowing that he would have to send a deluge and start over, even!

If God is forgiving and benevolent, why is there evil and suffering, hell etc.?

If God really loves us the way He claims to loves us, then you'd think he'd put things to right. Use his omnipotence for good, y'know.

These are just a few questions that puzzle me. :iiam:

The first question I'd like to answer is about dinosaurs.Of course,they're mentioned under other names:"Behemoth" (Job 40:15-24) and "Leviathan" (Job 41:1-34)
Check out this website:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...-and-the-bible


In the Bible, in Job 40:15–24, God describes to Job (who lived after the Flood) a great beast with which Job was familiar. This great animal, called “behemoth,” is described as “the chief of the ways of God,” perhaps the biggest land animal God had created. Impressively, he moved his tail like a cedar tree! Although some Bible commentaries say this may have been an elephant or hippopotamus, the description actually fits that of a dinosaur like Brachiosaurus. Elephants and hippos certainly do not have tails like cedar trees!

Actually, very few animals are singled out in the Bible for such a detailed description. Contrary to what many may think, what we know now as dinosaurs get more mention in the Scriptures than most animals! So dinosaurs—all the different kinds—must have lived alongside of people after the Flood.

About the different races emerging,check out:
http://eugeneklee.wordpress.com/2008...create-others/
I quote- "“Who married Cain?” – Adam and Eve’s son? And what about all the ethnic races? Where did they all come from?

One way to look at this is to make up something that makes sense. People who don’t read the Bible literally tend to do this. So many people assume that God did create “other” people that weren’t mentioned in Genesis. Even C.S. Lewis, one of my heroes, hypothesized that this was the case. But the problem with this answer is that the Bible really doesn’t say this… anywhere! So who was this woman who Cain married? The Bible doesn’t say. But that doesn’t mean she couldn’t have been related to him. Adam and Eve did have other children besides Cain and Abel (i.e. Genesis 5:4). And since the Bible tells us that Cain and Abel were farmers, they were definitely full grown adults. So Cain’s wife could have been his sister, or niece, or great niece.

Since Adam and Eve were the first (and only) human beings, their children would have no other choice than to intermarry. God did not forbid inter-family marriage until much later when there was enough people that intermarriage was not necessary (Leviticus 18:6-18). The reason that incest often results in genetic abnormalities in children is that when two people of similar genetics (i.e. a brother and sister) have children – genetic defects are far more likely to result because both parents had the same defects themselves. When people from different families have children – it is highly unlikely that both parents will have the same genetic defects. The human genetic code has become increasingly “polluted” over the centuries as genetic defects are multiplied, amplified, and passed down from generation to generation."
Thanks for that interesting question


I'll answer the rest later.God bless.
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RK
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#1400
Report Thread starter 9 years ago
#1400
We have more new members!

(Original post by J9127)
Hello
(Original post by Choccielatte)
Hello
(Original post by King4eva)
Hello
(Original post by leala4628)
Hello
Good to see you all in here and welcome

Do you have anything to add to the discussions we've been having or got anything else we can discuss?
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