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#1901
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#1901
I've heard it quite a bit, and if you listen to someone various sounds appear again and again, and everyone's sounds are different :confused:

However, the sounds don't seem to have a structure.

Oh, I was reading Wikipedia once and I found this interesting.
In 2006, the brains of a group of individuals were scanned while they were speaking in tongues. Activity in the language centers of the brain decreased, while activity in the emotional centers of the brain increased. Activity in the area of control decreased, which corresponds with the reported experience of loss of control. There were no changes in any language areas, suggesting that glossolalia is not associated with usual language function. Other brain wave studies have also found that brain activity alters in glossolalia.
Isn't that what you'd expect? Like someone else was taking over?

But why does God need to help us pray to Him? :dontknow:
tassacharlotte
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#1902
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#1902
(Original post by NJA)
You should get right back to the start of The Church, Acts 2, put yourself there and present God with a clean slate to be taught on.




What do you have that the believers in Samaria didn't have to make you sure you have the Spirit and they didn't?

I never read of "falling in the Spirit" anywhere in the bible, my bible tells me that the fruit of the Spirit includes self-control, not the opposite!
Jesus caused people to gain physical and mental strength and self-control, not lose it!

You have missed the right way and followed wrong ways that don't glorify God or help you.

... and who told you to pray for tongues?
- another wrong idea! You thirst for a relationship with God not tongues - you will speak in tongues as neccessary means to that end.

"for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maks intercession for the saints according to the will of God." (Romans 8:26-27)

i'm pretty sure this is what i said about tongues.
we could get caught up in arguing about this, but what if we miss the point.

i have faith, and i have a relationship with my God. He talks to me, and if i'm on the wrong path, then he will tell me, and put me on the right one.
I know the Spirit is within me, because this is the promise he has for all those who believe that Jesus died for our sins.

So i'm gonna keep my eyes on the Lord, and then pray for you to see that people's relationships with God are totally personal.
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#1903
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#1903
sparklysparkles
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#1904
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#1904
To change the subject a tad, I just came across this video, which I found interesting and a bit challenging:

Any thoughts?
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#1905
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#1905
Mind = blown. I don't know what to say. I agree with the "Implication for Ministry" especially!

I didn't get the one about Jacob though :erm:
NJA
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#1906
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#1906
(Original post by + polarity -)
...But why does God need to help us pray to Him? :dontknow:
Would you bring up a child giving it what it asked for, even though you could see it didn't really know what was good for it?

"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him... For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God" (1 Cor. 2:9, 11)

"the Spirit also helps our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God" (Romans 8:26-27)
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sparklysparkles
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#1907
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#1907
(Original post by + polarity -)
I didn't get the one about Jacob though :erm:
Yeah... I get the reference to when Jacob wrestled with God throughout the night and then God knocked his hip out, but have never really investigated the implications of that story. Suppose it'd be that God could have just killed him, but merely injured his hip as a reminder?
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Magnum Opus
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#1908
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#1908
(Original post by sparklysparkles)
To change the subject a tad, I just came across this video, which I found interesting and a bit challenging:

Any thoughts?
I don't think I agree with that at all, haha! I think they're very very wrong with respect to what the Bible is about. The Bible is about Jesus, sure, but that's just whittling it down to a biography of a cool dude who is awesome at wedding parties. Well, we can just read that tabloids for that. The Bible is about so so so so much more than that, for starters, they don't even say why he did all those things, so why did he? He did it for us, for all of us regardless of who we are, so sure the Bible is about Jesus, but it's about us, how we can be like Jesus, what he did for us... and so so so much more...

I sound like an evangelical preacher.
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marille
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#1909
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#1909
(Original post by sparklysparkles)
To change the subject a tad, I just came across this video, which I found interesting and a bit challenging:

Any thoughts?
Interesting. I like it, though I definitely think there are some cases where the Bible's stories are our stories. Like Adam and Eve - we will always take the fruit. But yes, in that case, Jesus is the true and better Adam. : )

(Thinking aloud,) maybe the Bible's faults are our faults, and its virtues are Jesus' virtues.

I liked the link between Jesus and Abraham/Isaac - seems obvious now I think about it. XD
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NJA
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#1910
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#1910
(Original post by tassacharlotte)
...I know the Spirit is within me, because this is the promise he has for all those who believe that Jesus died for our sins.
It is a promise that needs to be received, which means you first have to admit you havn't received it, even though you believe Jesus is the Saviour.

Paul began by asking:
"Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" (Acts 19:2)

That question shows:
(1) just cos a person believes doesn't mean they have received
(2) there must be a way of knowing you have received.

(Original post by tassacharlotte)
So i'm gonna keep my eyes on the Lord,
The Lord says you cannot see him until you have received what I (or rather He) am telling you about.

(Original post by tassacharlotte)
and then pray for you to see that people's relationships with God are totally personal.
Then most of the New Testament letters are "out of order" as they are telling other people about their relationship with God, and the preaching of the gospel in Acts to people who already believed in God is also wrong because it is telling them that they are not yet saved.

tessa, the time will come when you will realise that you have been taught and believed a load of junk. Until that time, you probably won't like me.
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NJA
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#1911
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#1911
(Original post by sparklysparkles)
Any thoughts?
After a person becomes "in Christ" by receiving His Spirit then the whole bible speaks about them, their victorious new life, and their old life, the enemy.

By getting the receiving of the Spirit wrong the bible becomes a history book about someone else, not a living word.

"every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh* is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist" (1 John 4:3)

* not "came in the flesh"


"we* know that the Son of God is come, and has given us* an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." (1 John 5:20)

* the truly Spirit-indwelt
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#1912
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#1912
(Original post by NJA)
Would you bring up a child giving it what it asked for, even though you could see it didn't really know what was good for it?

"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him... For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God" (1 Cor. 2:9, 11)

"the Spirit also helps our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God" (Romans 8:26-27)
I see!
NJA
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#1913
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#1913
(Original post by + polarity -)
I see!
I hear - I forget
I see - I remember
I do - I understand
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sparklysparkles
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#1914
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#1914
(Original post by Magnum Opus)
I don't think I agree with that at all, haha! I think they're very very wrong with respect to what the Bible is about. The Bible is about Jesus, sure, but that's just whittling it down to a biography of a cool dude who is awesome at wedding parties. Well, we can just read that tabloids for that. The Bible is about so so so so much more than that, for starters, they don't even say why he did all those things, so why did he? He did it for us, for all of us regardless of who we are, so sure the Bible is about Jesus, but it's about us, how we can be like Jesus, what he did for us... and so so so much more...

I sound like an evangelical preacher.
But surely that's missing the point? To say the Bible is all about Jesus is to avoid saying that he is/was merely "a cool dude who is awesome at wedding parties" - we can see that he is one part of the triune God, and that God's whole plan was one of redemptive salvation for those who place their faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross.

If asked "What is the Bible?" I think I would always have said "A book detailing God's saving plan for the world, which also contains instructions for how best to live." So I agree that there id more to the Bible than just reading it as a history of one God-man, but at the same time I think that one of the points of the video was that we can easily place too much emphasis on the immediate impact which the Bible should have on our lives and instead read it - particularly the OT which can sometimes be quite tricky to discern the relevance of - in view of the fact that it's all about Jesus.

(Original post by marille)
maybe the Bible's faults are our faults, and its virtues are Jesus' virtues.
Yes, I think that's an interesting way of looking at it. Links, I suppose, to Romans, where it is made very clear that anything we do that is bad is our fault, and anything we do that is good is done by the grace of God (plus, we can do nothing that is objectively good without God's spirit - Romans 8: 5 "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.")
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Magnum Opus
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#1915
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#1915
Long point short, I do agree with you :p: but I'm trying to expand on that.

(Original post by sparklysparkles)
But surely that's missing the point? To say the Bible is all about Jesus is to avoid saying that he is/was merely "a cool dude who is awesome at wedding parties" - we can see that he is one part of the triune God, and that God's whole plan was one of redemptive salvation for those who place their faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross.
Hmm, I don't think it's missing the point, because I agree "it is about Jesus", but it is also about so much more than that. The way that video presented it, it's putting the "about Jesus" as if it is the only thing the Bible is about. It's not though. On appearances, the Bible is a culmination of years of Jewish history and culture, a diary of how the Jewish people find God and gradually struggle to follow him - just as we might find God and gradually struggle to find him in our daily lives. This all climaxes into the New Testament, Jesus, the perfect individual - so perfect, God chose him to be his only son. That's fine, we can understand about the Triune nature of God from that, we can see how God has played a role in the lives of the people in the Biblical stories, we can see his plan develop throughout that, but the really really really important question that video misses is "why?" For who? Well, us. If you remove the us part as something not important, then everything God has done, the entire Bible, is really quite pointless, because you fail to understand the point in the Bible, the point in Jesus' sacrifice and torturing, the point of the exile from Egypt, the bloodshed and the battles both spiritually and physically that people had to endure to keep that worship of their God, because it wasn't "we have a God, cool", it was "this is what God has done for us, what he has delivered for us, and because of that, God is all of these many amazing incredible things".

If asked "What is the Bible?" I think I would always have said "A book detailing God's saving plan for the world, which also contains instructions for how best to live." So I agree that there id more to the Bible than just reading it as a history of one God-man, but at the same time I think that one of the points of the video was that we can easily place too much emphasis on the immediate impact which the Bible should have on our lives and instead read it - particularly the OT which can sometimes be quite tricky to discern the relevance of - in view of the fact that it's all about Jesus.
I would agree with everything you say here, except the last point - I don't think it is all about anything, for starters I'm always extremely wary of people who over-emphasise one of the natures of the Triune God. So the second I heard "it's all about Jesus", I knew I wasn't going to agree with it. Alternatively, you could rather say it's all about Jesus, but it's also all about God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, and us, because the second you remove one of those out of the equation, or you balance that chemistry wrongly, you change everything and you begin to not miss the point, but certainly miss a large part of it. There's a reason Jesus talked in parables, there's a reason Jesus is such a continuation from the "Old" Testament, we're called to be like that, to make those sacrifices, to uphold those laws, to help others, to basically be like Jesus, through all that parable either through stories or through the Bible itself, Jesus is calling us to be that. Jesus is so clearly saying this is about us, we are to bring about the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth, we are to be the Good Samaritans etc. etc.

(Original post by marille)
maybe the Bible's faults are our faults, and its virtues are Jesus' virtues.
Yes, I think that's an interesting way of looking at it. Links, I suppose, to Romans, where it is made very clear that anything we do that is bad is our fault, and anything we do that is good is done by the grace of God (plus, we can do nothing that is objectively good without God's spirit - Romans 8: 5 "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.")
Effectively, what marille has said, is what I am trying to say. I'll stop here, sorry I got overexcited. marille, I'm still thinking about your question to me earlier, so expect a very long reply when I get on it.
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sparklysparkles
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#1916
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#1916
(Original post by Magnum Opus)
I would agree with everything you say here, except the last point - I don't think it is all about anything, for starters I'm always extremely wary of people who over-emphasise one of the natures of the Triune God. So the second I heard "it's all about Jesus", I knew I wasn't going to agree with it.
Ah, maybe my wording was unclear there - two responses here: firstly, I would kinda use Jesus interchangeably with God in most cases; and secondly in the context of what I was saying (or trying to say!), I was referring to all the foreshadowings and prophecies in the OT being about Jesus.

But yeah, I suppose I do in principle agree with most of your points. This is what I like with debating things with Christians - so much more understanding and less likely to take offence / start insulting you than others online.
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Magnum Opus
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#1917
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#1917
(Original post by sparklysparkles)
Ah, maybe my wording was unclear there - two responses here: firstly, I would kinda use Jesus interchangeably with God in most cases; and secondly in the context of what I was saying (or trying to say!), I was referring to all the foreshadowings and prophecies in the OT being about Jesus.
That's probably more my fault, I'm far too used to people using "Jesus" as literally "Jesus", and forgetting about the other two ("who's the Holy Spirit?" :nodots:).

But yeah, I suppose I do in principle agree with most of your points. This is what I like with debating things with Christians - so much more understanding and less likely to take offence / start insulting you than others online.
hah, indeed you see why I only seem to write long posts in here, despite modding D&D? Thanks for the discussion though, you've made me think about a few things.
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marille
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#1918
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#1918
I do agree with Magnum Opus that the Bible is about other things than just Jesus (or even, simply speaking, about God). The Old Testament existed in an extremely relevant way for a long time before Jesus turned up, and it says as much about the behaviours of the Israelites as it does about God's own actions in their history. That's a big part of what I like about it - not only does it show that the Israelites screwed up in ways that we all screw up (so we can see ourselves in God's chosen people), but also that Adonai always gave them opportunities to come back to him.

I mean, I think the video's right in pointing out that all of it does link back to Jesus. But I definitely agree that that's not the only way of seeing the Bible, even if we do substitute "Jesus" for "God".

Also, I know I'll disagree with some of you here but I highly doubt that any of the OT's writers had Jesus in mind when they wrote "Messianic" passages in the prophets or the psalms or anything. Most of them didn't even have in mind any sort of Messianic figure who would come back to redeem them (although some did, and that was certainly the foundation of the expectations the Jews had of Jesus in his own time). I think they wrote about kings or themselves in such a way that directly refers to God's interaction with humankind and therefore came to fruition naturally in Jesus. But yes, at the time, it was about them, and we shouldn't be afraid of reading it in that way too. : )
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Magnum Opus
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#1919
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#1919
From rainbowbex

"I just had prayers for healing.. And dude it was well cool. Never had prayers for healing before so it was a new and interesting experience! The pain has definitely diminished which is amazing (sitting on the floor is no fun with back pain.. And lying did just result in me sleeping! Whoops!) How is everyone's summer going and would anyone like to share there experiences?

Sharing is part of the process of encouragement. TSR X-soc is a group of christians coming together online. Does this make us any less church?

I have made lots of wonderful notes from the seminars and talks, and am hoping to post a few lovely posts describing what I've learnt in the hope that it is ov value to anyone who happens to read.
Much love and God bless "
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sparklysparkles
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#1920
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#1920
(Original post by Magnum Opus)
From rainbowbex

"I just had prayers for healing.. And dude it was well cool. Never had prayers for healing before so it was a new and interesting experience! The pain has definitely diminished which is amazing (sitting on the floor is no fun with back pain.. And lying did just result in me sleeping! Whoops!) How is everyone's summer going and would anyone like to share there experiences?

Sharing is part of the process of encouragement. TSR X-soc is a group of christians coming together online. Does this make us any less church?

I have made lots of wonderful notes from the seminars and talks, and am hoping to post a few lovely posts describing what I've learnt in the hope that it is ov value to anyone who happens to read.
Much love and God bless "
Oh, that's cool I've never been around anyone that's experienced healing before... CofS has several good points, but being very open and emotive isn't one of them tbh!
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