Italian Hostage Watch

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technik
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#181
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#181
(Original post by foolfarian)
have you ever seen the exams needed to get into the army..?
spot the odd one out
orange, apple, banana, grenade
lorry, bus, taxi, helicopter
etc
so someone intelligent turns up and easily passes the criteria required to join due to that intelligence. are they now an idiot?

pull the other one.
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Vienna
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#182
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#182
(Original post by giordano)
My impression is that it boils down to what has blighted the Iraq operation right from the first days after military victory- carelessness, insufficient planning, no idea where they are going
Its a war zone, not a trip to the supermarket.
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Agent Smith
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#183
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#183
To be fair, the troops have not been the best-supported they could be. What has really blighted that after-war years has been the attitude of the troops. I used to think that the British troops were being nice and the US troops were being nasty to Iraqis. I still do think that the British troops have a more friendly attitude in general. However, both forces have contained people who think it's funny to abuse prisoners. To an extent, you can't tell who will do this until it happens. However, I think tighter tabs should have been kept on the troops to prevent these breaches of human rights. It is the abuse of prisoners, more than anything else, that has lost the occupiers the trust of the Iraqi people.
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Vienna
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#184
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#184
(Original post by Agent Smith)
To be fair, the troops have not been the best-supported they could be. What has really blighted that after-war years has been the attitude of the troops. I used to think that the British troops were being nice and the US troops were being nasty to Iraqis. I still do think that the British troops have a more friendly attitude in general. However, both forces have contained people who think it's funny to abuse prisoners. To an extent, you can't tell who will do this until it happens. However, I think tighter tabs should have been kept on the troops to prevent these breaches of human rights. It is the abuse of prisoners, more than anything else, that has lost the occupiers the trust of the Iraqi people.
So it is the fault of the military and/or administration that a handful of troops are found guilty of mistreatment? What trust has been lost?
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Agent Smith
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#185
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#185
It could be claimed to be the fault of the military for employing them in the first place without adequate screening. Personally I would not place such a ridiculously heavy burden on the recruitment department. Similarly, keeping a close watch on every soldier would be impractical and an invasion of privacy. However, you must realise that American and British troops as not very popular in Iraq at the moment. Few people trust them.
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Vienna
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#186
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#186
(Original post by Agent Smith)
It could be claimed to be the fault of the military for employing them in the first place without adequate screening. Personally I would not place such a ridiculously heavy burden on the recruitment department. Similarly, keeping a close watch on every soldier would be impractical and an invasion of privacy.
Indeed. What methods would a screening process employ? "Do you intend to abuse prisoners?", "Are you a racist?'. Or perhaps recreate a war zone, but every recruit in fear of their lives and see how they react?

However, you must realise that American and British troops as not very popular in Iraq at the moment. Few people trust them.
Did they trust them before Abu Ghraib? Probably more.
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Nikki J S
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#187
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#187
Vienna, having just read through this thread, imo you're one of the very few that has actually debated the points of the discussion, without being the instigator of resorting to personal character attacks. I agree with all the replies you've posted re the issues so far. Well said.
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giordano
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#188
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#188
(Original post by Agent Smith)
I think tighter tabs should have been kept on the troops to prevent these breaches of human rights. It is the abuse of prisoners, more than anything else, that has lost the occupiers the trust of the Iraqi people.
And the number and manner of civilian (i.e. non-combatant) deaths.
By the way, that number is not known.
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Vienna
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#189
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#189
(Original post by Nikki J S)
Vienna, having just read through this thread, imo you're one of the very few that has actually debated the points of the discussion, without being the instigator of resorting to personal character attacks. I agree with all the replies you've posted re the issues so far. Well said.
Thankyou.
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Nikki J S
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#190
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#190
(Original post by yawn)
Are you STILL on this forum trying to recruit young boys into the RAF?

What on earth is that supposed to mean? He expresses an opinion on the subject being discussed and you retort with a childish personal remark, which incidentally appears to be your trademark throughout this thread!

And you also wrongly make the assumption that it's only boys who want to join the RAF. :rolleyes: I've just been through the rigorous RAF selection process for sponsorhsip to be a doctor, with advice and guidance from Wzz; and I'm not even a boy!
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Nikki J S
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#191
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#191
(Original post by Agent Smith)
It could be claimed to be the fault of the military for employing them in the first place without adequate screening. Personally I would not place such a ridiculously heavy burden on the recruitment department.

I think that argument could be applied to any company/service anywhere. Selection proceses and procedures for military personnel are fairly rigorous (and varies depending on the role you're applying for and the skills/abilities required). I wonder how the rigour of NHS recruiting processes and screening for suitability to practice compare where the employment of Doctor Shipman is concerned? After all, medical personnel have the same power and authority over very vulnerable people, only they're armed with medication instead of guns!

Your post also makes an assumption of fault and therefore implies blame to the soldiers in question. I don't think the limited evidence discussed on the site so far has established that.
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yawn
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#192
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#192
(Original post by Nikki J S)
What on earth is that supposed to mean? He expresses an opinion on the subject being discussed and you retort with a childish personal remark, which incidentally appears to be your trademark throughout this thread!

And you also wrongly make the assumption that it's only boys who want to join the RAF. :rolleyes: I've just been through the rigorous RAF selection process for sponsorhsip to be a doctor, with advice and guidance from Wzz; and I'm not even a boy!
Ah - your opinion is somewhat coloured by your involvement in the subject matter. and not unbiased. :rolleyes:
yawn
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#193
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#193
Wzz and I go way back!
Nikki J S
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#194
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#194
(Original post by yawn)
Ah - your opinion is somewhat coloured by your involvement in the subject matter. and not unbiased. :rolleyes:

Absolutely, I don't deny it.
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yawn
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#195
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#195
(Original post by Nikki J S)
Absolutely, I don't deny it.
OK pal - incidentally were you successful in your application procedure?
Wzz
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#196
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#196
(Original post by yawn)
Wzz and I go way back!
We do?
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yawn
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#197
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#197
(Original post by Wzz)
We do?
I'm disappointed you don't remember.

I questioned you on whose authority you posted on a student forum, giving advice to young people on joining the Air Force - as an unofficial recruiting officer.

I suggested that Geoff Hoon might take a dim view of it!

Now do you remember?
Nikki J S
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#198
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#198
(Original post by yawn)
I'm disappointed you don't remember.

I questioned you on whose authority you posted on a student forum, giving advice to young people on joining the Air Force - as an unofficial recruiting officer.

I suggested that Geoff Hoon might take a dim view of it!

Now do you remember?

Do you need authority to give people advice about the selection processes and procedures of joining the RAF? Maybe he can try find it in his job description! It's no more than people are given in recruitment information packs, or can be found on the RAF and military websites (if they can be bothered to look it up). It's not like he's giving out classified information. :rolleyes: So if he, and incidentally several other serving RAF personnel on that site, want to give advice to people who're in varying stages of trying to join; what's the problem? And perhaps the reason he feels qualified to do so, is because he's worked in RAF recruiting. I'm sure the Air Force would pat him on the back for directing people their way, as demonstrated a couple of months ago, when a recruiting officer posted on the thread to tell him what an excellent job he's doing.

Anyhow, we're way, way off topic here!
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Nikki J S
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#199
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#199
(Original post by yawn)
giving advice to young people on joining the Air Force

And again you make assumptions about recruits being young; a good proportion are much older than he is!!
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yawn
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#200
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#200
(Original post by Nikki J S)
And again you make assumptions about recruits being young; a good proportion are much older than he is!!
My concern is that his advice is not sanctioned by the Ministry of Defence - that is not unreasonable given that he is handing it out unofficially in an official capacity.

It might be a good idea to get the opinion of the Ministry and whether they would 'pat him on the back'.

The reason for my assumption about the potential recruits being young is that the members of this website are young, given it is intended for students! :rolleyes:
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