michael howard is now officially the leader of the tory party

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Vienna
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Iluvatar)
Education, the economy, Becoming a member of the euro etc. There are lots of other issues
the economy? where the public want to see Britain keep its fiscal sovereignty?

oh, and i forgot the euro. another issue where the public back the tories.
education? you mean top-up fees? where the public agree with the tories?
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Eru Iluvatar
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#42
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#42
(Original post by UnregisteredP)
I would have thought then that Blunkett's policies would be attractive to someone of your political slant.
As a person who is closely connected with people working within the NHS I can confirm that improvements in NHS, due to monies been injected after years of scandalous Tory cutbacks, are very noticeable to the people who have to use them.
Well, the NHS is certainly alot better than in the conservatives time in power, and there should be no denying that, unless its just for the sake of denying it.
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pkonline
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#43
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#43
They may agree with Tory ideas but they don't place them high upon the agenda. E.g. the euro. That will not be decided at the next election, it will be at a referendum. So that issue is pointless when people decide whom to give their vote for.

Also policies like top-up fees are also similar to the Lib Dems and the people who care about them - the students - are likely to vote Lib Dem than Tory - reason maybe image?!
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Vienna
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#44
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#44
(Original post by llama boy)
Shall we play a quick game of spot the difference?





Well, quite.

Their ideology, their record, their policies.
can you run that by me again, i dont see what on earth you were doing other than messing around with quotes.
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Eru Iluvatar
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#45
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#45
(Original post by vienna95)
the economy?
oh, and i forgot the euro. another issue where the public back the tories.
education? you mean top-up fees? where the public agree with the tories?
Dont you know what the economy is? A typical tory triat.
The publis is undecided on the euro, there are opinion polls stating both sides have more support.
And the public is misinformed about top-up fee's. The fact is that its only the sort of voters that the tories typically attract who are going to have to pay, so of course they are against it.
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UnregisteredP
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#46
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#46
(Original post by vienna95)
im not against the idea of the ID card, if its costs can be proven against the obvious benefits to reducing illegal immigrancy and benefit fraud. although, this was a policy proposed by Michael Howard.

i can assure you its remarkably shocking elsewhere.
monies?
ID cards can easily be circumnavigated - they are by no means a preventative measure against reduction of any kind of fraud and the government are no that foolish that they don't have the foresight to realise this. So therefore we have to consider why they are keen on adopting it - as a further measure of control maybe? The more that is know about the individual the greater the potential for control.
As for national health - I said it is the users that have the greatest knowledge of improvements, not the media who are feeding misinformation to the public. The amount of extra money that is being made available from the public purse is phenomonal, but you would need to be closely involved in NHS to see this.
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Vienna
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Iluvatar)
Dont you know what the economy is? A typical tory triat.
*shakes head* what is the point......

The publis is undecided on the euro, there are opinion polls stating both sides have more support.
And the public is misinformed about top-up fee's. The fact is that its only the sort of voters that the tories typically attract who are going to have to pay, so of course they are against it.
er, no. the public is 57% against, 38% for according to the MORI poll.

i could argue that the public is mis-informed about the Tory health passport policy, but you wouldnt agree.
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Vienna
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#48
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#48
(Original post by UnregisteredP)
ID cards can easily be circumnavigated - they are by no means a preventative measure against reduction of any kind of fraud and the government are no that foolish that they don't have the foresight to realise this. So therefore we have to consider why they are keen on adopting it - as a further measure of control maybe? The more that is know about the individual the greater the potential for control.
this sounds like youve taken it straight from the newsround website. everyone is aware of the pitfalls of an ID system.

As for national health - I said it is the users that have the greatest knowledge of improvements, not the media who are feeding misinformation to the public. The amount of extra money that is being made available from the public purse is phenomonal, but you would need to be closely involved in NHS to see this.
which is why the tories propose that spending power and control be returned to those who run and are involved with the NHS not the politicians.
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Eru Iluvatar
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#49
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#49
(Original post by vienna95)
*shakes head* what is the point......
The point is that its true

(Original post by vienna95)
er, no. the public is 57% against, 38% for according to the MORI poll.
Yes, but other polls have shown public support, or at least uncertainty, towards the euro

(Original post by vienna95)
i could argue that the public is mis-informed about the Tory health passport policy, but you wouldnt agree.
Well i'm not sure i've even heard of it to be honest.
And if i had, it couldn't of been talked about much in the media, or by the conservatives themselves, otherwise it would have been more memorable.
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Eru Iluvatar
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#50
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#50
(Original post by vienna95)
this sounds like youve taken it straight from the newsround website. everyone is aware of the pitfalls of an ID system.
Well if there are so many pitfalls in it, why impliment it in the first place.
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Vienna
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Iluvatar)
Well if there are so many pitfalls in it, why impliment it in the first place.
it hasnt been implemented, they are discussing the idea of it. it looks like it will go through if Labour stay in power. im not against it in principle, but i would be interested to see how it would happen.
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UnregisteredP
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#52
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#52
(Original post by vienna95)
*shakes head* what is the point......



er, no. the public is 57% against, 38% for according to the MORI poll.

i could argue that the public is mis-informed about the Tory health passport policy, but you wouldnt agree.
Come on! You know we, in this country, are hideously ignorant of EU matters and this is reflected in so called opinion polls that are notoriusly biased in the wording of the question.
I would definitely take no notice of opinion polls as things stand at the moment. People are not giving answers backed up by informed opinion. It is imperative that people are educated in the pros/cons of euro before holding a referendum.
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Vienna
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#53
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#53
(Original post by UnregisteredP)
Come on! You know we, in this country, are hideously ignorant of EU matters and this is reflected in so called opinion polls that are notoriusly biased in the wording of the question.
I would definitely take no notice of opinion polls as things stand at the moment. People are not giving answers backed up by informed opinion. It is imperative that people are educated in the pros/cons of euro before holding a referendum.
and vice versa before making decisions regarding conservative policy and the party. its all swings and roundabouts.
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Pencil
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#54
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#54
The Tories are a bunch of dinosaurs. And now that Count Dracula's in charge, it will be years before they're ever in power again.
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not1
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#55
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#55
(Original post by UnregisteredP)
Come on! You know we, in this country, are hideously ignorant of EU matters and this is reflected in so called opinion polls that are notoriusly biased in the wording of the question.
I would definitely take no notice of opinion polls as things stand at the moment. People are not giving answers backed up by informed opinion. It is imperative that people are educated in the pros/cons of euro before holding a referendum.
i think the more the facts are explained, the more people will be against joining
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Vienna
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#56
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#56
(Original post by Pencil)
The Tories are a bunch of dinosaurs. And now that Count Dracula's in charge, it will be years before they're ever in power again.
not bad, 3 pages of discussion before another stupid tory comment came along. is that a record?
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Eru Iluvatar
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#57
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#57
(Original post by vienna95)
it hasnt been implemented, they are discussing the idea of it. it looks like it will go through if Labour stay in power. im not against it in principle, but i would be interested to see how it would happen.
Well of course, i am against it. And it is because of the same arguments, about civil liberties, and possible fraud etc.
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UnregisteredP
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#58
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#58
(Original post by Pencil)
The Tories are a bunch of dinosaurs. And now that Count Dracula's in charge, it will be years before they're ever in power again.
The Labour party thought IDS was their greatest ally - bet they're pleased they've got an even greater one now - haha.
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Vienna
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#59
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#59
(Original post by edders)
i think the more the facts are explained, the more people will be against joining
thats certainly my feeling.
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Eru Iluvatar
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#60
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#60
(Original post by edders)
i think the more the facts are explained, the more people will be against joining
Im not sure. There are many reasons for both sides.
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