michael howard is now officially the leader of the tory party

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edders

i think the more the facts are explained, the more people will be against joining

I did say pros as well as cons. Whether one listens to the pros or cons more will be, in part, dependent on their basic political instincts.

Reply 61

Eru Iluvatar

UnregisteredP

The Labour party thought IDS was their greatest ally - bet they're pleased they've got an even greater one now - haha.

Hmm... a very intelectually stimulating comment there.
I think i'll match it with the equally intelectually stimulating "huh?"

Reply 62

not1

blair will be genuinely nervous about facing howard in the commons... whatever you think of him hes definitely a good debater

Reply 63

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edders

blair will be genuinely nervous about facing howard in the commons... whatever you think of him hes definitely a good debater

True - I hope the tory's do settle down and start publicising alternatives more

I know it's supposed to be the job of the opposition but the constant sniping about the current government just puts me right off

I'd rather they came up with some reasonable alternatives (and before I get told a bunch of "policies" as I've said before I don't believe the numbers behind either of the two most publicised policies (specifically the scrapping of fees and the health passport) actually add up) rather than pointing out problems with current government policy.

Reply 64

Unregistered

edders

blair will be genuinely nervous about facing howard in the commons... whatever you think of him hes definitely a good debater

I disagree that he's a good debater (unless he's changed a lot.) His trouble is that, under pressure, he reveals aspects of his personality that are very unattractive, even to his own party members......(Anne Widdecombe - "Michael has something of the night about him")
Regarding Blair being nervous about facing him in the Commons - Tony is very experienced with dealing with antagonists during PM's questions - he cut his teeth on William Hague - now he WAS good!

Reply 65

Clearing and Applications Advisor

I have to admit that Ann Widdecombe's comment actually made me like him slightly more - anyone she doesn't like has to be not too bad in my book (scarey woman was on the today show this morning - I had to turn over the cats were getting stressed out by the shrillness of her voice :shudder: )

Reply 66

Eru Iluvatar

Pencil Queen

Ann Widdecombe... why doesn't she run for leader?

Reply 67

pkonline

edders

blair will be genuinely nervous about facing howard in the commons... whatever you think of him hes definitely a good debater

Thats true. I think Blair gets away too easily in PMQs. Howard will be better than IDS, but I though Hague was very good - but looked what happened to him :biggrin:

Reply 68

Vienna

Pencil Queen

as much as i understand what your saying,

1) sniping at each other is what parties do. i dont like it much, but if anything labour and the lib dems are the worst. you only have to look at an open arena like Question Time to see that everything is a piss take for them

2) the tory policies are well publicised and consistent. they are also radical while at the same time being mature (ie past consultation phase).

Reply 69

Vienna

Pencil Queen

take no notice of that comment. she was having a dig at him because he blamed her for something that cost her.
its hardly a reference to his character.

Reply 70

not1

pkonline

Thats true. I think Blair gets away too easily in PMQs. Howard will be better than IDS, but I though Hague was very good - but looked what happened to him :biggrin:

hague was given the job too young. hopefully he'll make a political comeback in the future as hes great.

Reply 71

not1

Iluvatar

Ann Widdecombe... why doesn't she run for leader?

because hardly any of the MPs would vote for her. because she would be a poor leader.

Reply 72

Unregistered

Pencil Queen

That's very witty Pencil Queen - know what you mean about the voice. That aside, I see her as a person with integrity even though I'm not a member of the Tory faithful. Therefore if she has reservations about Howard I have a sense of foreboding about him, cause she knows him better than any of us.

Reply 73

Vienna

edders

hague was given the job too young. hopefully he'll make a political comeback in the future as hes great.

i think he'll be given a good post under howard, as will portillo.
while they are short of an obvious leader, under howard i think there are some fantastic cabinet ministers. in this respect they are stronger than labour in my book.

Reply 74

Vienna

UnregisteredP

see my post above.

Reply 75

Eru Iluvatar

edders

because hardly any of the MPs would vote for her. because she would be a poor leader.

But she might be the sort of person the public would vote for.

Reply 76

Unregistered

vienna95

see my post above.

So what did Howard do that cost Widders? Come on, spill the beans, I'm intrigued!

Reply 77

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vienna95

As for No 1 I know it's what they do - I just don't like it - I find it incredibly off putting...it's not a nice trait in individuals never mind in organisations which are supposed to be running our country.

As for No 2 as I say I've not seen the tory policies (other than tuition fees and the health passport) other than on the tory party website (and I really have better things to do than trawl through that all day). The policies I have come across just don't add up (eg tuition fees - the extra money from reducing numbers of degree students pays for scrapping the fees - but the extra vocational course places promised for those students who don't get into the slimmed down HE system don't seem to be coming from anywhere - compared to the white paper which proposes the extra vocational courses funded by top up fees).

And although I've stopped reading hard copy newspapers (that 20p a day just seemed excessive for something available free online) I do read the news and I do watch the news and listen to the news - so if I'm not recieving the message on what the tory policies are there must be many more in the same boat.

Reply 78

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Iluvatar

But she might be the sort of person the public would vote for.

If she got in as leader I'd start donating to labour...I really don't like her.

Reply 79

Vienna

UnregisteredP

So what did Howard do that cost Widders? Come on, spill the beans, I'm intrigued!

she worked under him and then he blamed her or scapegoated her in the sacking of the director of the prison service. she generally didnt like him for when he was her boss so when the leadership election came around she supported hague and made comments about intending to hurt him politically and ruining his chance of leadership.