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Do other people exist?

Well? People say it's stupid to believe in God.

But isn't it just as stupid to believe in other people? What reason do you have to believe that your friends and family are conscious?

Sure, you can see people, hear them speak. So what? I can see and hear characters in my dreams. And don't even try saying "Life is more vivid than a dream" don't insult my thread with such amateur musings.

So go on, somebody tell me why you believe that other people are conscious?

Things like "language" certainly don't prove that there are 6 billion human beings on a planet called earth. Language could just be a part of the mighty illusion.

Does anyone have anything useful to say?

Discuss

Reply 1

username221592

10

You've been watching The Matrix too much.

Reply 2

Aesop

11

They express ideas that I do not understand or acknowledge, which I come to subsequently understand.
Anyway, what leads you to reason that dreaming is qualitatively indistinguishable from reality? I do not believe it is.
Global scepticism is so boring. A 2 year old can claim 'but you don't really know that!', it takes no intellectual capacity. It's not an interesting thought experiment, it's useless.

Reply 3

tck

If you presume that mankind does not really exist, then it would be pointless interacting with them: more fundamentally, you would already know everything there is to know. Therefore I would suggest purely on the basis that if I do not presume mankind exists, the consequences in terms my behaviour would be high enough that I must presume they do exist: if I don't, then I know everything and there is little point to life.

Reply 4

Keysersoze311

OP

Aesop

Anyway, what leads you to reason that dreaming is qualitatively indistinguishable from reality?

I didn't say dreaming is qualitatively indistinguishable from reality. I'm saying that the fact that the 2 are distinguishable, is a weak argument. The most vivid of my dreams are not that far removed from "real life" experience.

Reply 5

elwoodc

7

Aesop

It's not an interesting thought experiment, it's useless.

I disagree, I think it's a very interesting thought experiement.
However I do agree that it is useless.
It is almost phycologically impossible for humans to go through life holding 100% the belief that they cannot be certain that anybody else exists. We just have to cross our fingers and assume that they do.
Belief (or non-belief) in God on the other hand is something different.

Reply 6

Keysersoze311

OP

Aesop

They express ideas that I do not understand or acknowledge, which I come to subsequently understand.

That doesn't prove that there are 6 billion conscious human beings though, does it? It might prove that there is a form of consciousness that is not your own, that is all.

Reply 7

Fen

8

I had this exact same thought when I was in elementary, and for a while acted like I was the only person in the world and tried to bend people's will with my mind(this was before the Matrix, mind you).
I must be a masochist, given the results.

Oh God. You're back.

elwoodc

I disagree, I think it's a very interesting thought experiement.
However I do agree that it is useless.
It is almost phycologically impossible for humans to go through life holding 100% the belief that they cannot be certain that anybody else exists. We just have to cross our fingers and assume that they do.
Belief (or non-belief) in God on the other hand is something different.

Solipsism.

Reply 10

Dorito

15

Let me ask you a question.

Does you exist?

Ye, think about that one.

Reply 11

Flashphotographer

6

To believe in solipsism is an egotistical view and denies free will and experience. If everyone was just a figment of one's imagination then wouldn't one have some say or control over others' actions.
It is highly impossible for one to survive alone.

Reply 12

Aesop

11

Keysersoze311

I didn't say dreaming is qualitatively indistinguishable from reality. I'm saying that the fact that the 2 are distinguishable, is a weak argument. The most vivid of my dreams are not that far removed from "real life" experience.

You have admitted that the two are qualitatively distinguishable. By this admission, you have admitted that both reality and dreams exist.

I now may assert the proposition: in reality, I receive overwhelming sense evidence in favour of minds other than my own.

Reply 13

Sanyore

14

I've probably praised this novel about 5 times over the past week, but

OP you should read Luigi Pirandello's One, No One, One Hundred Thousand. Not to do with the existence of people per se, but it definitely involves solipsism to an extent.

Reply 14

Aesop

11

Keysersoze311

That doesn't prove that there are 6 billion conscious human beings though, does it? It might prove that there is a form of consciousness that is not your own, that is all.

Inductive logic is not infallible I know. We have experience and we create an assumption in order to predict future occurrences. But there is a point at which we say: well, it's probably true.

We could, as you suggest, go on to state that gravity is a lie, metal doesn't expand in heat, cats live forever etc. Great. Really useful.

You started off with 'well we say it about God', but what sense experience can you give me in favour of God? What inductive reasoning is there behind his existence?

Reply 15

charrrlotte.ox

9

this kinda q freaks me out slightly.

Reply 16

Keysersoze311

OP

Flashphotographer

To believe in solipsism is an egotistical view and denies free will and experience.

Rubbish. You could easily have free will, but exist in a reality with illusory characters, eg friends who weren't conscious.

Come on people, real points, yeh :top:

Reply 17

Keysersoze311

OP

Aesop

You have admitted that the two are qualitatively distinguishable. By this admission, you have admitted that both reality and dreams exist.

Come on, get a grip. So what? All I've done is admit that there is a supposed difference between "dream consciousness" and "reality consciousness", qualitatively. It doesn't mean that they aren't both really dreams.

Come on people, less idiocy, more points.

:top:

Reply 18

shamrock92

15

Keysersoze311

So what? I can see and hear characters in my dreams. And don't even try saying "Life is more vivid than a dream" don't insult my thread with such amateur musings.

Err....self-contradict much?

Reply 19

Keysersoze311

OP

getinthevan

Oh God. You're back.