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    (Original post by Wzz)
    Define long? Are you going to have to spend 5 hours on the bus then walk 10k?
    This looks like the start of a problem solving exercise.... D=SxT

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    (Original post by Wzz)

    People are sitting here telling you that getting involved with the ATC very quickly would be one of the better things you could do towards enhancing your application; yet you're still asking if it's worth it?
    I know it's been covered but I couldn't agree more about the ATC. Granted I wasn't in the ATC before I joined the RAF, however, I was having music lessons, acting in plays, after school spanish lessons etc. which all combined to clash with joining the ATC. The last buses back home were incredibly stupid (something like 7.50pm and 10.40pm) and it's a 6 mile walk home....

    ...and it STILL came up in my interview to join up in the ranks and I had to defend my position very hard!!

    I've been in the RAF over 12 years now and taught in an ATC Sqn at my last unit for almost 2 years (only left due to posting - and new job didn't allow the time). It's already been covered, but I found it easier to do local expeditions (hill walking, orienteering etc.) with the ATC as a service volunteer than I ever did in my "primary" job.

    With a little hindsight I wished I had joined the ATC as soon as possible - might have motivated me enough to pull my finger out in school rather than have to play catch up resitting English GCSE and undertaking an OU degree years down the line!
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    (Original post by Arch-Angel)
    I know it's been covered but I couldn't agree more about the ATC. Granted I wasn't in the ATC before I joined the RAF, however, I was having music lessons, acting in plays, after school spanish lessons etc. which all combined to clash with joining the ATC. The last buses back home were incredibly stupid (something like 7.50pm and 10.40pm) and it's a 6 mile walk home....

    ...and it STILL came up in my interview to join up in the ranks and I had to defend my position very hard!!

    I've been in the RAF over 12 years now and taught in an ATC Sqn at my last unit for almost 2 years (only left due to posting - and new job didn't allow the time). It's already been covered, but I found it easier to do local expeditions (hill walking, orienteering etc.) with the ATC as a service volunteer than I ever did in my "primary" job.

    With a little hindsight I wished I had joined the ATC as soon as possible - might have motivated me enough to pull my finger out in school rather than have to play catch up resitting English GCSE and undertaking an OU degree years down the line!
    Can I just add a little personal caveat in respect of the ATC, and this is purely my own opinion (ducks to avoid hurtled projectiles)

    I have been involved with the ATC for over 10 years now. I have been through the ranks / classifications as a Cadet and been a member of staff. I spent a lot of time with the ATC and did lots (and i mean lots!). The ATC can swallow your spare time like there's no tommorrow - and your non-spare time!

    Somedays, I found myself doing ATC stuff at work when i didn't get enough time to complete it on Sqn. (Yes, i was a commissioned officer of the VR(T)). I did jobs such as Training Officer (responsible for 50+ kids trianing such as BTECs etc.etc.), Supply Officer, Band Officer, Squadron Adjutant, and Squadron Commander. I loved it (and still do for my involvment), don't get me wrong.

    HOWEVER, at OASC they want to see more than "I was in the ATC". They want to see other stuff, because the immediate opinion is that if you are in the ATC, it's regardless if you were/are a cadet or a member of staff, it's handed on a plate to you. Obviously this is grossly wrong, because when you are staff you are working 15+ hours a week on top of your daytime job to ensure everything runs smoothly, plus maintaining a family etc.

    At OASC, they will put the tick in the ATC box, skip over what you did (ranks, classifications etc.) then move on - usually asking, "So, what else did you do?"

    "Sleep", is the only reply some can give!

    I had great difficulty when it came to this question, as i don't have the time or sanity to partake in a theatrical discussion/debating society. They wouldn't let me talk about the jobs/roles i had as staff, pushing all the last 10 yrs+ aside in one fail swoop. Maybe i should of argued (politely) and said, "hold on sirs, but i do a hell of a lot more than you think!", but hindsight is a wonderful option.

    Then to get feedback that reccomends i "join an organisation that will give you chance to communicate, and make decisions that will influence other peoples outcomes",....well, that just smarts! I made decisions that influence society and the young people, the poeple of tommorrow, the future pilots, WSO, tecchies, police, bank managers, dustbin men etc. (oops, i'm rambling!)

    If you get the chance, do it! Believe me! Don't look back, just go for it. Just watch out and don't rely on it!

    </rant>
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    I know this probably sounds arrogant coming from someone who's probably one of the youngest members of this forum, but imo the majority of guys I've come across in the ATC are immature boys on power trips who treat others like it's a 1950's bootcamp (probably only way they feel good about themselves)!

    They think the RAF will be falling all over them to join up, just because they've been in the ATC;regardless of the fact they've done nothing else outside of cadets! Personally, I think they're in for a big shock and I doubt most of them will get past the filter interview!
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    (Original post by cwarranto)
    Can I just add a little personal caveat in respect of the ATC, and this is purely my own opinion (ducks to avoid hurtled projectiles)
    *snip*

    </rant>
    ... and I hope you don't mind if I pop my opinion on their opinion in; if you know what I mean. The interviews can often be a little sharp, mainly because they want to get through a lot. If they brush aside the ATC; with comments like "ok, outside of the ATC, what else did you do?" that's because they've read your form, they understand what you've done about the ATC, and there's no need to spend 30 minutes of the interview going over things that they can pick up from you form. They're moving the discussion on, not because they think what you've done is worthless, but because they want to give *you* the chance to add some more.

    ... and the reason they want you to add more is because they don't want you to be purely focussed on one thing. Perhaps in some cases like yours, they're taking the attitude that maybe you should have dropped some of your ATC responsibilities in order to fit in some more things for yourself; that theatrical society or whatever?

    Just putting a different spin on it.
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    (Original post by REME-Bod)
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    Hurrah!
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    (Original post by Nikki J S)
    I know this probably sounds arrogant coming from someone who's probably one of the youngest members of this forum,
    Young or not, your point's particularly valid as one of the only people here actually in the ATC as we speak. I seem to remember that there's a noticeable split between good cadets and good RAF candidates. I left my ATC squadron when I went to university; and immediately got myself sponsored and started flying, because I wanted to be in the RAF; not the Air Cadets. I had friends who stayed on; they were quite senior within the wing, they did a lot of gliding, and they were suckered into thinking that they were more important than they were. They didn't want to be at the bottom of the pile as a UAS first year; regardless of whether or not that'd help get them into the RAF; they wanted to stay at the top of the cadet tree.

    So looking at it that way, frequently a good cadet; or someone who throws themselves into cadets; will not work out as a good candidate for us. As mentioned above, sometimes doing lots of cadet things at the expense of other activities isn't so hot.

    (Original post by Nikki J S)
    They think the RAF will be falling all over them to join up, just because they've been in the ATC;regardless of the fact they've done nothing else outside of cadets! Personally, I think they're in for a big shock and I doubt most of them will get past the filter interview!
    I hope you're still there when they get those shocks!

    You're right. A lot of things within the ATC *are* handed to you on a plate. You can apply for dozens of courses, do your DofE, learn to glide, whatever; but at the end of the day that's quite easy when you're doing ok as a cadet and your boss asks for volunteers to apply for said courses. The RAF prefers people who realise that one thing isn't the be all and end all, and accept that they have to be well-rounded. By all means be an exceptional cadet with qualifications and courses coming out your ears, but have some other things to put on your forms too.
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    (Original post by Wzz)
    As mentioned above, sometimes doing lots of cadet things at the expense of other activities isn't so hot.
    Exactly. You have to be prepared to put some effort into things that aren't handed on a plate!

    (Original post by Wzz)
    I hope you're still there when they get those shocks!

    I sincerely hope I'm not!
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    In which case I hope you hear about them!
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    I've decided to myself i will join sometime in late january, as i want my january exams out the way, im going to need all the revision time i can get! (17 out of 47 in the mock - U grade....) Then I am going to join, altough i whether i will always make it there twice a week every week is unlikely.... But anyway i've convinced a mate to tag along so i wont have to turn up on my own for the first time.
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    Good! You won't need a mate after a while, you'll make some there. It'll take a while to get in; PERSEVERE! At least stick with it until Easter.
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    (Original post by Jamie_JAGGERS)
    I've decided to myself i will join sometime in late january, as i want my january exams out the way, im going to need all the revision time i can get! (17 out of 47 in the mock - U grade....)

    What exam are you doing in Jan?
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    God its looking grim... AS: ICT, Physics and English lit and lang combined....Cant wait to go back to school!!
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    (Original post by Wzz)
    ... and I hope you don't mind if I pop my opinion on their opinion in; if you know what I mean. The interviews can often be a little sharp, mainly because they want to get through a lot. If they brush aside the ATC; with comments like "ok, outside of the ATC, what else did you do?" that's because they've read your form, they understand what you've done about the ATC, and there's no need to spend 30 minutes of the interview going over things that they can pick up from you form. They're moving the discussion on, not because they think what you've done is worthless, but because they want to give *you* the chance to add some more.

    ... and the reason they want you to add more is because they don't want you to be purely focussed on one thing. Perhaps in some cases like yours, they're taking the attitude that maybe you should have dropped some of your ATC responsibilities in order to fit in some more things for yourself; that theatrical society or whatever?

    Just putting a different spin on it.
    Quite right, quite right.

    And that's something i have picked up on over the last 12 months. The overall point is, the ATC is great for 2 things:

    1. As a shy, unconfident 13 year old introvert; you will hopefully turn out to be a confident, reslient person with good leadership potential (and get a bagful of awards/qualifications)
    2. As new Adult Staff, it shows great willingness to help others and get involved whilst making a difference.

    That theatrical society always sounds interesting
    (where's the smiley with Jazz hands?)
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    Mind you, I was never in a theatrical society; although I did a few Shakespearan leads at school

    I think the ATC works best when it gets someone like me. It brought me out of my shell, put me in contact with the RAF, and made me realise I could be good at the whole military life. But, I got out before I got suckered into the "big fish small pond" syndrome I mentioned above.
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    (Original post by Nikki J S)
    I know this probably sounds arrogant coming from someone who's probably one of the youngest members of this forum, but imo the majority of guys I've come across in the ATC are immature boys on power trips who treat others like it's a 1950's bootcamp (probably only way they feel good about themselves)!

    They think the RAF will be falling all over them to join up, just because they've been in the ATC;regardless of the fact they've done nothing else outside of cadets! Personally, I think they're in for a big shock and I doubt most of them will get past the filter interview!
    Totally agree! Whilst the ATC will add a significant amount weight to your application for the RAF, it is just another "tick in the box" - and there's lots of boxes to tick!

    I remember - oh god, pull up a sandbag time! - there was a fellow at my basic recruit training many years ago who was in the ATC. No doubt there was a few ex-ATC cadets there, but this fellow sticks out in my mind simply because he thought that, as he was an ex-ATC Flight Sergeant everyone should listen to him...including the instructors! Poor lad thought he had all the answers...

    Just remembered as well the Cadet Warrant Officer who decided that RAF Corporals (i.e. me!) should stand to attention when he walked past and call him "Sir" .... safe to say that he enjoyed a one-way conversation with an only slightly amused Snowdrop
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    (Original post by Arch-Angel)
    Just remembered as well the Cadet Warrant Officer who decided that RAF Corporals (i.e. me!) should stand to attention when he walked past and call him "Sir"
    O..M..G.. !

    This guy deserved a reaming, and i hope he realised it.

    It seems to be that out of 47,000 Cdts a few idiots make it through the sift. Suppose thats Murphy's Law in action for you.
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    Yes, there're a few who are quite embarrassing. It's the glider pilots that get me; it's a great achievement to be able to get to some of their standards at such a young age, and I'd be first to congratulate them; but when they pitch up on summer camps festooned with wings and develop a bit of an odd attitude to RAF pilots, I find it a bit annoying. You're not competing with me! It's like they're the "voice of flying" amongst their cadets, and when you pitch up to talk to them about something you're suddenly undermining them...
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    (Original post by cwarranto)
    O..M..G.. !

    This guy deserved a reaming, and i hope he realised it.
    He got a reaming alright - my only regret was that I had to do it in front of his troops...mind you he didn't give me a great deal of choice (I tried twice to take him to one side and he was having none of it).

    Mind you I know of more than one Cadet Warrant Officer who've been told that they can go and drink in the Sgt's Mess...amusing in a rather childish sort of way!
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    (Original post by Wzz)
    Yes, there're a few who are quite embarrassing. It's the glider pilots that get me; it's a great achievement to be able to get to some of their standards at such a young age, and I'd be first to congratulate them; but when they pitch up on summer camps festooned with wings and develop a bit of an odd attitude to RAF pilots, I find it a bit annoying. You're not competing with me! It's like they're the "voice of flying" amongst their cadets, and when you pitch up to talk to them about something you're suddenly undermining them...
    Rather like working at the airshows (done at least 3 RIAT's now) when you're looking good, everyone thinks you're great (especially the females )....and then a jockey comes into view!!

    No more telling them that RAFP stands for Red Arrows Fighter Pilot!!
 
 
 
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