RAF : Officer / Pilot Entry Watch

Wzz
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#2141
Report 13 years ago
#2141
(Original post by Arch-Angel)
Rather like working at the airshows (done at least 3 RIAT's now) when you're looking good, everyone thinks you're great (especially the females )....and then a jockey comes into view!!
Hurrah!

I leave everyone to it at airshows, and hide in the aircrew enclosures and hit the free beer.

(Original post by Arch-Angel)
No more telling them that RAFP stands for Red Arrows Fighter Pilot!!
I hide when they're on; they're depressingly good. If you think they look impressive, you should see how they look after you've tried to do aeros and close formation in a Hawk. Then you think about stringing it together with nine of them; and to THAT standard..... learning jet formation's horrible!
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REME-Bod
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#2142
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#2142
(Original post by Wzz)
I hide when they're on; they're depressingly good. If you think they look impressive, you should see how they look after you've tried to do aeros and close formation in a Hawk. Then you think about stringing it together with nine of them; and to THAT standard..... learning jet formation's horrible!
The closest Ive ever been to being that good is Friday afternoon at rush-hour in Asda, with a trolley with a wonky wheel!

Man, I was good!

Seriously though, it goes to show that no matter how good you think you are, or even how good you *really* are, there's always someone out there who's slightly better.

Keeps even the best on their toes, eh?
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Vladek
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#2143
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#2143
(Original post by REME-Bod)
The closest Ive ever been to being that good is Friday afternoon at rush-hour in Asda, with a trolley with a wonky wheel!

Man, I was good!

Seriously though, it goes to show that no matter how good you think you are, or even how good you *really* are, there's always someone out there who's slightly better.

Keeps even the best on their toes, eh?

you mean there are better Engineers than me???????????????????

How dare you!
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ex-recruiter
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#2144
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#2144
The recent discussion regarding the worth of joining the ATC, as far as a future career in the RAF is concerned, has been fascinating. The advice given by those 'in the know' (Wzz et al) has been excellent and very refreshing to hear. So many people seem to think that being a cadet is a passport in to the RAF. When I visited ATC Sqns as a recruiter I used the following analogy to try to explain how I considered cadet applicants for RAF service (either commissioned or airman/woman entry): There is a free buffet on offer in the village hall, the first young man can't be bothered to go as far as the village hall, the second young man gets off his backside dresses suitably for the occasion, pops along to the village hall and enjoys the sandwiches, sausage rolls and pork pies, the third young man is the one who organised the buffet in the first place. The first young man is typical of most young people today and the RAF do not want them, the second young man is willing to get off his backside and take part in society, such as the majority of cadets, and may be suitable for RAF service. However, in competition with the third young man, the second young man would not be selected. The third young man brings something to the table rather than just eats from it. It is all well and good taking part in gliding, shooting, drill competitions and whatever else the ATC offers but it is much better to be actively involved in the organisation of such events either within the ATC environment or elsewhere.
I personnally believe that the ATC is an outstanding organisation which provides excellent opportunities for young people but it does not provide direct entry to the RAF. Long live the ATC
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Wzz
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#2145
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#2145
(Original post by REME-Bod)
Seriously though, it goes to show that no matter how good you think you are, or even how good you *really* are, there's always someone out there who's slightly better.

Keeps even the best on their toes, eh?
Indeed. I always fancied being in the Reds; until I tried to remain even slightly in formation in a Tucano for the first time, realised that doing it in a Hawk was harder, and also realised that dripping with sweat after flying formation doesn't really do the Reds image much.....
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Wzz
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#2146
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#2146
(Original post by ex-recruiter)
I personnally believe that the ATC is an outstanding organisation which provides excellent opportunities for young people but it does not provide direct entry to the RAF. Long live the ATC
Hear hear; and I thought that was an excellent analogy!
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REME-Bod
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#2147
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#2147
(Original post by Wzz)
Indeed. I always fancied being in the Reds; until I tried to remain even slightly in formation in a Tucano for the first time, realised that doing it in a Hawk was harder, and also realised that dripping with sweat after flying formation doesn't really do the Reds image much.....

... and as for the Asda Trolley Formation Dancers... perfection is the only standard, and sweat is merely a performance indicator.

99.99% need not apply.

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Nikki J S
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#2148
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#2148
(Original post by ex-recruiter)
I personnally believe that the ATC is an outstanding organisation which provides excellent opportunities for young people but it does not provide direct entry to the RAF. Long live the ATC
I agree it provides people with fantastic opportunities to develop themselves and experience things they wouldn't otherwise get to experience. On the other hand, I think the culture that exists within a lot of ATC's (not all) doesn't help develop the kind of skills the RAF are looking for.

My own experience is that a culture of bullying and sexism exists and is tolerated because that's what people's (civilian staff and cadets) perception is of military life;even if this is fifty years out of date! Unless something is done to address this then a lot of opportunities within the ATC will continue to be wasted.
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Nikki J S
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#2149
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#2149
(Original post by Arch-Angel)
Rather like working at the airshows (done at least 3 RIAT's now) when you're looking good, everyone thinks you're great (especially the females )....

Oh, please...just listen to yourself!! :rolleyes:
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Scorg
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#2150
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#2150
(Original post by Nikki J S)
Oh, please...just listen to yourself!! :rolleyes:
He's being honist! its a good quality to have so im told

All this talk of ATC makes me wish I did something like that when I was at school. But anything back then that involved excursion put me off. Hindsight is a wonderful thing aint it
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cwarranto
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#2151
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#2151
(Original post by Nikki J S)
My own experience is that a culture of bullying and sexism exists and is tolerated because that's what people's (civilian staff and cadets) perception is of military life;even if this is fifty years out of date! Unless something is done to address this then a lot of opportunities within the ATC will continue to be wasted.
I'm really sorry that this is your experience of the ACO and i do hope you are/were in a position to sort this problem out. Bullying, Sexism, Racism (in fact ANY discrimination) in the ATC is strictly forbidden. True the support measures have only improved in the last 5 years, but netherless it's off limits.

When it comes to bullying, the problem is, it's the receivers interpretation, not the giver. In a competative organisation strong personalities clash greatly and it's sometimes difficult to get kids to reason with each other and see the benefits of working as a team.

That's what i used to try and get accross from day one of walking onto the Sqn. "Team work" Without this, you might as well give up.
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cwarranto
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#2152
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#2152
Aaaaannnyway,

Bringing this thread back on topic.....

Has anyone heard of the proposals regarding Northolt becoming a "superbase" still.

I was just reading back through my notes and at the time plans had been drawn up to move QCS (Queens Colour Sqn), BFPO (British Forces Post Office) and a few other units into Northolt.

Anything new on this horizon?
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Wzz
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#2153
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#2153
(Original post by Nikki J S)
I agree it provides people with fantastic opportunities to develop themselves and experience things they wouldn't otherwise get to experience. On the other hand, I think the culture that exists within a lot of ATC's (not all) doesn't help develop the kind of skills the RAF are looking for.

My own experience is that a culture of bullying and sexism exists and is tolerated because that's what people's (civilian staff and cadets) perception is of military life;even if this is fifty years out of date! Unless something is done to address this then a lot of opportunities within the ATC will continue to be wasted.
Wrote a huge reply to this I lost when the server was "busy"

I was basically saying that you're right; at some, thankfully few, squadrons, there's a lot of people who develop a very high sense of self importance when they get a few cadet strips pasted onto their arms. Now, in a sense, they ARE very important, as they're meant to be taking their first tentative steps towards leading. However, there are always those who won't do terribly well, and you're right that there's a big pile of them who think that anything connected with the military should be a snapshot of "Full Metal Jacket."

There's a lot of strutting around in uniform with puffed chests, shouting at people for one reason or another, and lots of comments like "when I'm in the RAF..."

But, on the bright side, you've said yourself that's not what the RAF likes. I've said it, exrecruiter's said it, so they'll get their comeuppance eventually.

I notice you didn't mention commissioned staff in your post; what's their take on the whole affair? Do you find that they know much about the wider RAF, recruitment, selection etc?
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Wzz
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#2154
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#2154
(Original post by cwarranto)
I'm really sorry that this is your experience of the ACO and i do hope you are/were in a position to sort this problem out. Bullying, Sexism, Racism (in fact ANY discrimination) in the ATC is strictly forbidden. True the support measures have only improved in the last 5 years, but netherless it's off limits.
Well, I'm sure that's the party line, but it's not tricky to see how sexism especially can come out in an organisation which has a lot of immature people in it. And I don't mean that harshly; a slightly immature 16 year old who has to try and win over a pile of definately (through no fault of their own) immature 13 and 14 year olds has precious few weapons in his armoury.
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Wzz
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#2155
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#2155
(Original post by cwarranto)
I was just reading back through my notes and at the time plans had been drawn up to move QCS (Queens Colour Sqn), BFPO (British Forces Post Office) and a few other units into Northolt.
Don't know anything about Northolt; in fact, I've never even been there. However, I'd say you can't call yourself a "superbase" with one flying squadron there. Places like Marham and Leuchars are expanding, Coningsby'll be big when it's no longer a building site etc, but I don't think an extra Regiment squadron and a handful of post people make a superbase.
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cwarranto
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#2156
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#2156
(Original post by Wzz)
Don't know anything about Northolt; in fact, I've never even been there. However, I'd say you can't call yourself a "superbase" with one flying squadron there. Places like Marham and Leuchars are expanding, Coningsby'll be big when it's no longer a building site etc, but I don't think an extra Regiment squadron and a handful of post people make a superbase.
Maybe they'll form a new unit. The Tactical Royal Airborne Post delivering Drill display team. First class mail, on time, from some guy with shiny boots!

Sorry, couldn't resist !
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Wzz
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#2157
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#2157
I hope no-one from the MoD reads this. Goodbye, tranche 3 of Typhoon, hello tactical post office......... :rolleyes:
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Arch-Angel
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#2158
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#2158
(Original post by Nikki J S)
Oh, please...just listen to yourself!! :rolleyes:
It was tounge in cheek - and was a rather cheap pop at the aircrew, some of which do walk around airshows like they own the place...

...just like in all walks of life: ATC cadets, pilots, RAF Police....I've personally met some who are not fit to wear the uniform and met a great deal more whom I have a great deal of respect for - people who contribute to the RAF as a whole and regard it as a vocation not a job. There are bad apples in all corners of society...but we shouldn't tar all with the same brush.

But I agree - it is time to move the thread on. Speaking of "main" airfields, I wonder if part of the plan is to avoid having the infrastructure on dozens of bases to support flying squadrons when the flying squadrons could be moved to just a handful of unit, thus saving money.

Speaking of saving money - do we need the third tranche of Typhoon? Is 230+ Typhoon (costing £19bn) a waste of money? (Just though I'd stir things up a bit )
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Arch-Angel
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#2159
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#2159
(Original post by Wzz)
Well, I'm sure that's the party line, but it's not tricky to see how sexism especially can come out in an organisation which has a lot of immature people in it. And I don't mean that harshly; a slightly immature 16 year old who has to try and win over a pile of definately (through no fault of their own) immature 13 and 14 year olds has precious few weapons in his armoury.
This problem can work in reverse. How does a 21-22 year old junior officer lead people in their 30's who have been working in a particular specialisation for a number of years? I'm not being a cynic here - and I'm 30 now! - but this is something most readers will have to consider. How will you lead a group of people with more job experience, more life experience that you have? You're given a position of authority (i.e. your rank) so you can make people listen.. but the challenge is for them to WANT to listen to you - how do you do that?
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ally_n_2000
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#2160
Report 13 years ago
#2160
Hi guys,

This is kinda liked to ATC as everyones talking about it at the moment, i need advice. Im interested in gaining more experience 'outside of university' if you get what i mean (leadership mainly), and was just wondering what was available for someone like me 20 year old, uni student. The cadet age limit is 18 to join, but what is the adult part like. Does anyone have experience of that?
I also heard about University Officer Training Corps, which i think is more army orrientated but might be useful anyway.

Cheers guys, Al
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