Nikki J S
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#2161
(Original post by Wzz)
I notice you didn't mention commissioned staff in your post; what's their take on the whole affair? Do you find that they know much about the wider RAF, recruitment, selection etc?

It's done quite subtly (most of the time), and the commissioned staff aren't always around. They believe, and I agree with them, that the cadets should be largely left to get on with it, because that's how they develop organisational and leadership skills. The problem with this is that people are being given power, but aren't always being shown how to use it.

As a cadet sgt, I''m the only female cadet with any rank on the whole squadron,and there hasn't been any others above this in the past seven years! Thankfully, as I've gained some rank I've been able to challenge the culture (which hasn't been easy) but things seem to be changing slowly.
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Nikki J S
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#2162
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#2162
(Original post by Arch-Angel)
It was tounge in cheek - and was a rather cheap pop at the aircrew, some of which do walk around airshows like they own the place...
)

I know;that's how it was taken
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Wzz
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#2163
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(Original post by Arch-Angel)
It was tounge in cheek - and was a rather cheap pop at the aircrew, some of which do walk around airshows like they own the place...
No comment!

(Original post by Arch-Angel)
But I agree - it is time to move the thread on. Speaking of "main" airfields, I wonder if part of the plan is to avoid having the infrastructure on dozens of bases to support flying squadrons when the flying squadrons could be moved to just a handful of unit, thus saving money.
That's exactly where it comes from, as far as I can see. Hopefully they won't go as far as centralised engineering, but having two bases supporting a fleet rather than five makes a lot of sense. It also keeps the number of bases down for a non-flying perspective; less postings, more local infrastructure to support the base and its personnel, and better community support for people posted in. Plus more people at Happy Hour, which is what it's all about.

(Original post by Arch-Angel)
Speaking of saving money - do we need the third tranche of Typhoon? Is 230+ Typhoon (costing £19bn) a waste of money? (Just though I'd stir things up a bit )
Yes, we need 232 Typhoon; we need at least an OCU, OEU, and 6 squadrons' worth, plus spares. We could get away with 180-odd, but since the options are 140 or 230, I reckon the higher's better value, especially when you look at the costs of breaking the contract. Plus, it's the best jet in the world; I wish people would realise that. From a pilot's perspective it's beautiful. First time I sat in one I was shocked by the ergonomics; everything is exactly where I'd put it!
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Vladek
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#2164
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#2164
(Original post by Nikki J S)
Don't behave or treat them as inferior to you for a start; unlike some of the characters we've mentioned earlier!

You have to play to people's strengths and don't think that because you have authority you're the font of all knowledge, so be willing to learn from other's experience (that's what I've learned from my ATC role anyway!).

You have to work hard to earn respect; it's not an automatic right, and I think in that kind of position you have to prove yourself over a period of time.
You don't ever have to respect the person though, you could hate their guts but you have to respect the position that they hold. You're saluting the Queen not the person.
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Wzz
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(Original post by Arch-Angel)
This problem can work in reverse. How does a 21-22 year old junior officer lead people in their 30's who have been working in a particular specialisation for a number of years? I'm not being a cynic here - and I'm 30 now! - but this is something most readers will have to consider. How will you lead a group of people with more job experience, more life experience that you have? You're given a position of authority (i.e. your rank) so you can make people listen.. but the challenge is for them to WANT to listen to you - how do you do that?
...... and I can't answer stuff like this, as I've only very rarely been in charge of people, being aircrew. Leading has little to do with being able to do the job better than your subordinates, I'd say, so their job experience becomes less of an issue.

However, dealing with your comment that this is the problem I was chatting about in reverse; I was thinking about a 16 year old cadet NCO playing up to a bunch of 13-14 year olds by employing a bit of sexism and a slightly brash attitude. In the case of a 22 year old JO trying to appeal to some mid 40s SNCOs, he's got to do a lot of positive things; which has to be good?

The only way I ever found it worked was to have a level of respect across the board. And away on det, always let the groundies choose the rounds, always finish your curry (which is 2 stages hotter than you'd normally pick), close your eyes when they start chatting up less-than-pleasant women, and always accept 20-25% more banter than you give out.
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Wzz
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#2166
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#2166
(Original post by Vladek)
You don't ever have to respect the person though, you could hate their guts but you have to respect the position that they hold. You're saluting the Queen not the person.
True but irrelevant. Your troops do what you say, because they have to for the reasons you mention. The key in any working environment is to make sure they want to do what you say. Along with honest, integrity, loyalty, good conduct and all those other lovely comments from the Queen on your commissioning scroll that mark the qualities an officer should have, humility should be up there as well.

I've never, ever had to rely on the fact that I'm commissioned to have things work or get things done. It's a lot more fun if you just all get on!
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Wzz
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(Original post by ally_n_2000)
This is kinda liked to ATC as everyones talking about it at the moment, i need advice. Im interested in gaining more experience 'outside of university' if you get what i mean (leadership mainly), and was just wondering what was available for someone like me 20 year old, uni student. The cadet age limit is 18 to join, but what is the adult part like. Does anyone have experience of that?
I also heard about University Officer Training Corps, which i think is more army orrientated but might be useful anyway.
Don't look for leadership experience too closely; the RAF is still of the opinion that leaders are made rather than born, so you'll be taught how to be one at IOT. Look for more responsibility and the suchlike by all means, but don't get hung up on leadership as the be all and end all.

If you have at least 3 terms of uni left, why haven't you tried to join your UAS? You should at least write to them and explain that you're now just turning your thoughts to a career in the RAF and would like some help and info. Some will be useful, others might just point you to your nearest AFCO, but that's life.

Other than that, OTC is still a student group which will start you at the bottom. If you're keen on the RAF, I wouldn't like to suggest whether an adult position on an ATC squadron or a student position on an OTC squadron would fare best.
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Vladek
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#2168
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#2168
(Original post by Wzz)
True but irrelevant. Your troops do what you say, because they have to for the reasons you mention. The key in any working environment is to make sure they want to do what you say. Along with honest, integrity, loyalty, good conduct and all those other lovely comments from the Queen on your commissioning scroll that mark the qualities an officer should have, humility should be up there as well.

I've never, ever had to rely on the fact that I'm commissioned to have things work or get things done. It's a lot more fun if you just all get on!

Oh of course, but i'm not saying be a ******* and hide behind your commision, i'm saying if you don't like your boss, (Cos he's an ******** for example), you don't have to respect them but you still have to do what they say and respect their position.

Didn't mean to sound like i was saying just be a ****** cos they have to do what you say anyhow cos thats not going to build an effective team!
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cwarranto
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#2169
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#2169
Wednesday 22 December 2004 16:44
Ministry Of Defence (National)

MoD AWARDS HAWK CONTRACT TO BAE SYSTEMS

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) today announced that BAE SYSTEMS has been awarded a Design and Development Contract (DDC) for the Hawk 128 Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT).

The contract is worth some £158.5M and covers the initial phase of development of Hawk as part of its evolution to meet the MoD's full capability requirement.

The Hawk 128 is designed and built at BAE Systems' Brough factory on Humberside. The MoD will work closely with BAE Systems to manage the design of the avionics architecture, introduce a modern digital cockpit environment and deliver two trials aircraft to support the development and test flying.

Exact aircraft numbers, delivery schedule and In-Service Date will all be set at the time of the main investment decision, currently planned for the first half of 2006.

Lord Bach, Minister for Defence Procurement, said:

"Today's announcement is the latest in a series of significant milestones for the Hawk programme. It is not only excellent news for our jet pilots of the future but also for UK industry and the workforce at BAE Systems' Brough factory.

"We are adopting an incremental approach to development and production, ensuring that risks are jointly understood and reduced before significant investment decisions are taken. We will continue to work closely with BAE Systems to develop an aircraft that meets our future capability needs."

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Whats the betting this runs over budget, and over schedule. Wonder if it will be too heavy to carry the pilots?
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Wzz
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No, the Hawk programme really is too well set to run into difficulties. We're ordering a variant of the Hawk 100 called the Hawk 128, and we're initially getting 46 to do TW training on, replacing the T1As and T1Ws of 19(F) Sqn. It'll be on time, I should imagine.
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steve_nels
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In regards to the ATC i wish my experiences were as good as all the others. I left my squadron because basically it was...*******s. I joined the ATC to be associated and to learn about the RAF, and my squadron did not seem to know what the RAF was ! ! It was like a youth meet up. If i asked a cadet what the RAF stood for they wudnt have a clue, i was the only one on the squadron out of the cadets and the staff who could recognise and name RAF aircraft. There was absolutely no relevance watsoever to the RAF which is why i left! I remember the final straw for me was when we had the choice of either visiting 99 squadron at RAF brize norton (i think) or go to warwick castle...u can imagine what everyone chose ! ! Yes the bloody castle. The ATC indeed did give me alot of experience and was very rewarding, but there was no RAF associated things there really exept the flying. Which was great because i was the only one who wanted to fly ! so got a few hours in :rolleyes:

I remember when i did my gliding scholorship, the pilots there who were same age as me, were maverick wannabes, made me chuckle
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carrierlanding
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#2172
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#2172
(Original post by steve_nels)
I remember when i did my gliding scholorship, the pilots there who were same age as me, were maverick wannabes, made me chuckle
Where did you do your gliding scholarship?
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steve_nels
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#2173
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#2173
(Original post by carrierlanding)
Where did you do your gliding scholarship?
not sayin
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Wzz
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(Original post by steve_nels)
I remember when i did my gliding scholorship, the pilots there who were same age as me, were maverick wannabes, made me chuckle
I'm all for people getting into flying, I'm all for people developing airmanship, and they can be Maverick wannabes all they like; I just wish they'd stop being threatened by proper pilots
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Scorg
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#2175
(Original post by steve_nels)
If i asked a cadet what the RAF stood for they wudnt have a clue, i was the only one on the squadron out of the cadets and the staff who could recognise and name RAF aircraft.
That reminds me of when I went to RAF Leuchars for the airshow. athough it wasnt an RAF aircraft I did have to explain what a B52 was to a couple of cadets, when we where standing right next to one. They thought it was a recon aircraft
Well they know now at least
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Vladek
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(Original post by Scorg)
That reminds me of when I went to RAF Leuchars for the airshow. athough it wasnt an RAF aircraft I did have to explain what a B52 was to a couple of cadets, when we where standing right next to one. They thought it was a recon aircraft
Well they know now at least

You can't blame Cadets for not knowing a lot, they're only kids.
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Scorg
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#2177
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#2177
(Original post by Vladek)
You can't blame Cadets for not knowing a lot, they're only kids.
Oh im not, they where quite interested to learn more about it, was happy to oblige.
I just thought it was the type of thing you meant learn while at ATC (admittedly ive never been so I dont know what really is done)
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JMC
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#2178
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#2178
What's the new Hawk being used for?
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Vladek
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#2179
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#2179
(Original post by Scorg)
Oh im not, they where quite interested to learn more about it, was happy to oblige.
I just thought it was the type of thing you meant learn while at ATC (admittedly ive never been so I dont know what really is done)
I thought ATC was about sweeping rooms clean of dirt and dust and drill? were they ment to teach us stuff?
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Wzz
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#2180
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#2180
(Original post by JMC)
What's the new Hawk being used for?
See above...

"......we're initially getting 46 to do TW training on, replacing the T1As and T1Ws of 19(F) Sqn."
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