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Scorg
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#2181
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#2181
(Original post by Vladek)
I thought ATC was about sweeping rooms clean of dirt and dust and drill? were they ment to teach us stuff?
Oh, guess I had it all wrong then! :eek:
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Wzz
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#2182
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#2182
(Original post by Vladek)
I thought ATC was about sweeping rooms clean of dirt and dust and drill? were they ment to teach us stuff?
*sigh*

As Nikki was saying, this attitude's a bit prevalent in the ATC. Too many power trips, too much of a "boot camp" mentality. I don't want to have airmen working under me who've been cadets before, and think they have to blindly obey orders like robots.....
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Wzz
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#2183
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#2183
(Original post by Vladek)
You can't blame Cadets for not knowing a lot, they're only kids.
True, but there are some the other way. Witness some posts on this very thread; "I failed the interview but I even knew the diameter of an ASRAAM seeker head, but they didn't even ask me that, why not?" :rolleyes:
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Vladek
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#2184
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#2184
(Original post by Wzz)
*sigh*

As Nikki was saying, this attitude's a bit prevalent in the ATC. Too many power trips, too much of a "boot camp" mentality. I don't want to have airmen working under me who've been cadets before, and think they have to blindly obey orders like robots.....
Guess it depends what style of management suits you best, some people like it when others do exactly what they say without question. And to be honest if i'm managing a project I want it to turn out how i've designed it not how someone has interperated my design, so sometimes its good if people just get on with what they've been told as they may not be seeing the whole picture. Still always good to listen!
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Vladek
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#2185
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#2185
(Original post by Wzz)
True, but there are some the other way. Witness some posts on this very thread; "I failed the interview but I even knew the diameter of an ASRAAM seeker head, but they didn't even ask me that, why not?" :rolleyes:
Perhaps they should of mentioned an interest in the asraam and then really really regreted doing so realising they really know **** all about the subject! oops.
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Wzz
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#2186
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#2186
(Original post by Vladek)
Perhaps they should of mentioned an interest in the asraam and then really really regreted doing so realising they really know **** all about the subject! oops.
From bitter experience?
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Wzz
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#2187
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#2187
(Original post by Vladek)
Guess it depends what style of management suits you best, some people like it when others do exactly what they say without question. And to be honest if i'm managing a project I want it to turn out how i've designed it not how someone has interperated my design, so sometimes its good if people just get on with what they've been told as they may not be seeing the whole picture. Still always good to listen!
Well, we're in a military context, and no-one wants robots. Surely even in your example, if they look at what you've got them doing and think that it's not quite what you were thinking of, would you prefer them to carry on or come back to you and say "Boss, I'm not sure, can you have another quick look at this with me?"
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Vladek
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#2188
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#2188
(Original post by Wzz)
Well, we're in a military context, and no-one wants robots. Surely even in your example, if they look at what you've got them doing and think that it's not quite what you were thinking of, would you prefer them to carry on or come back to you and say "Boss, I'm not sure, can you have another quick look at this with me?"
Yeah bitter experience, still he put me through the to the next stage, was the filter interview

Good point, I would much rather them come and speak to me than carry on blindly, but sometimes they might not be seeing the bigger picture and what seems stupid from their point of view might be better in the long run.

I mean i would never dismiss someones ideas off hand, I'd always listen, one sure way of pissing someone off is to dismiss their ideas, they might not tell you their idea next time and next time it might be a good one.
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cwarranto
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#2189
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#2189
(Original post by Wzz)
True, but there are some the other way. Witness some posts on this very thread; "I failed the interview but I even knew the diameter of an ASRAAM seeker head, but they didn't even ask me that, why not?" :rolleyes:
Pah! ASRAAM diameter.

Try explaining the rationale for using one of these puppies...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ons/blu-82.htm

Yee-haa!
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Nikki J S
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#2190
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#2190
(Original post by steve_nels)
In regards to the ATC i wish my experiences were as good as all the others. I left my squadron because basically it was...*******s. I joined the ATC to be associated and to learn about the RAF, and my squadron did not seem to know what the RAF was ! ! It was like a youth meet up. If i asked a cadet what the RAF stood for they wudnt have a clue, i was the only one on the squadron out of the cadets and the staff who could recognise and name RAF aircraft. There was absolutely no relevance watsoever to the RAF which is why i left! I remember the final straw for me was when we had the choice of either visiting 99 squadron at RAF brize norton (i think) or go to warwick castle...u can imagine what everyone chose ! ! Yes the bloody castle. The ATC indeed did give me alot of experience and was very rewarding, but there was no RAF associated things there really exept the flying. Which was great because i was the only one who wanted to fly ! so got a few hours in :rolleyes:

Well, it is a youth organisation;not a mini version of the RAF. I think people sometimes confuse the two!

I wouldn't be able to recognise all RAF aircraft, but i've still passed all my cadet exams and BTEC in aviation with distinctions. What i'm more interested in is learning the skills and qualities that are not only important to the RAF, but are valuable to evryday life such as teamwork, communication, compromise, trust and loyalty;things you can't learn blindly in a classroom.

It's not what you know, it's your willingness and capacity to learn!
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Nikki J S
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#2191
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#2191
(Original post by Wzz)
I'm all for people getting into flying, I'm all for people developing airmanship, and they can be Maverick wannabes all they like; I just wish they'd stop being threatened by proper pilots

Why do you think they are? Because you make them realise they're not the 'real' thing
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Nikki J S
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#2192
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#2192
(Original post by Vladek)
You can't blame Cadets for not knowing a lot, they're only kids.

I didn't realise there was a fountain of knowledge you could drink from on becoming 18 :rolleyes: There's a lot of 'kids' that could give a lot of 'adults' a run for their money in terms of RAF knowledge. Being a 'kid' is as much about state of mind, including attitude and behaviours, as it is about age! That's beautifully demonstrated by some of the adult posterrs on the forum!

But as i've already mentioned, knowledge of the RAF is not as high on my list of priorities as developing fundamental qualities. RAF knowledge can be gained relatively easy at any time!
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Nikki J S
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#2193
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#2193
(Original post by Scorg)
Oh im not, they where quite interested to learn more about it, was happy to oblige.
I just thought it was the type of thing you meant learn while at ATC (admittedly ive never been so I dont know what really is done)

It is :rolleyes:
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Nikki J S
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#2194
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#2194
(Original post by Wzz)
*sigh*

As Nikki was saying, this attitude's a bit prevalent in the ATC. Too many power trips, too much of a "boot camp" mentality. I don't want to have airmen working under me who've been cadets before, and think they have to blindly obey orders like robots.....

As usual, you've summed up the main point perfectly. It's just a shame that some people have yet to realise what it is! :rolleyes:
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Nikki J S
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#2195
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#2195
(Original post by Vladek)
Guess it depends what style of management suits you best, some people like it when others do exactly what they say without question. And to be honest if i'm managing a project I want it to turn out how i've designed it not how someone has interperated my design, so sometimes its good if people just get on with what they've been told as they may not be seeing the whole picture. Still always good to listen!

Or even what style of management brings out the best in the individuals you're working with!
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Nikki J S
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#2196
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#2196
(Original post by Vladek)
Yeah bitter experience, still he put me through the to the next stage, was the filter interview

Good point, I would much rather them come and speak to me than carry on blindly, but sometimes they might not be seeing the bigger picture and what seems stupid from their point of view might be better in the long run.

I mean i would never dismiss someones ideas off hand, I'd always listen, one sure way of pissing someone off is to dismiss their ideas, they might not tell you their idea next time and next time it might be a good one.

That's why good communications skills are so important. People often need to understand why they're doing something in order to achieve the outcomes we want them to. That way they can bring to your atttention things that aren't going as planned, or alter a course of action to make sure they do.
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Wzz
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#2197
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#2197
(Original post by Vladek)
Yeah bitter experience, still he put me through the to the next stage, was the filter interview
Probably because knowing we use ASRAAM is more of a positive than not knowing the ins and outs of the programme is a negative

(Original post by Vladek)
Good point, I would much rather them come and speak to me than carry on blindly, but sometimes they might not be seeing the bigger picture and what seems stupid from their point of view might be better in the long run.
In this context, wouldn't you always prefer to know?
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Wzz
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#2198
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#2198
(Original post by Nikki J S)
Why do you think they are? Because you make them realise they're not the 'real' thing
True, but I wasn't flying the real thing at 17 either. Took me until 18 to even get my hands on a Bulldog! It's a bit of a shame really. It's not like anyone's stopping them from getting onto a UAS or getting off to IOT and doing it too....
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Wzz
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#2199
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#2199
(Original post by Nikki J S)
I didn't realise there was a fountain of knowledge you could drink from on becoming 18 :rolleyes:
There's always beer; that makes you smart, right?

(Original post by Nikki J S)
But as i've already mentioned, knowledge of the RAF is not as high on my list of priorities as developing fundamental qualities. RAF knowledge can be gained relatively easy at any time!
You're very correct. The ATC can help by letting you know a bit about what the RAF is like; you get to see some things that you can't pick up or learn purely by burying your head in RAF yearbooks and websites. While you might not know the difference between two models of Hercules, you'll still understand a lot more about how the RAF actually works if you've taken advantage of some of the opportunities given to you at summer camps and the like.

As you say above, being a cadet can help foster discipline, initiative, pride, loyalty, and hopefully a few other qualities that we love in an officer.
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cwarranto
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#2200
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#2200
What is Santa bringing you for Christmas WZZ?

Cheaper Mess bar bill?
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