Wzz
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#301
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#301
(Original post by me99dhj)
....and a degree of luck becomes involved.
Surely not!

The aptitude tests have been refined since they were introduced to reflect as well as possible a candidate's chances of completing flying training. They work; they really do, based on a lot of people I've trained with.
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me99dhj
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#302
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#302
(Original post by Wzz)
Surely not!

The aptitude tests have been refined since they were introduced to reflect as well as possible a candidate's chances of completing flying training. They work; they really do, based on a lot of people I've trained with.
Wzz,
Just to set the record straight, maybe "a degree of luck becomes involved" was the wrong phrasing, but it certainly feels as though it did at some points. Point taken though as I'm sure the powers that be, would quaff at the thought that their pilots were training and flying on a lucky break!!! The tests are certainly comprehensive though and without doubt reveal a great deal about personal strengths/weaknesses somewhere along the line.
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js_atco
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#303
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#303
Hi;

I'm about to graduate from University, and have my filter interview on 29/03. (ATC/WSO/INT) I've noticed on the upper weight limit sheet that I do not come anywhere near the "optimum weight" for my height. I'm 176cm weighing 56kg (funny I know, but I eat loads!). As far as I am aware, the RAF doesn't have any policy toward people falling under these limits, but will this be mentioned in my medical, and could it cause an adverse result?

Also, if anyone has some good study guides for the mental arithmetic, that would be appreciated (School seems a long time ago, and I fear I might be rusty).

Finally, what's the food like at OASC Cranwell? If I'm going to be there for 3 days, it better be nice!
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Katie Pierce
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#304
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#304
Re: Maths revision

These sites are quite good:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3513187.stm or http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/

But if it really has been quite a while, this is a nice place to start at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/revisewise/maths/

Good luck!
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Demon_of_Elru
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#305
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#305
Hi,

Just a question about the requirements of selection into pilot training.

The requirements to attend the OASC are 5 GCSE's C+ and 2 A-Level passes.

I'm 19 and just starting my a-levels now..... my question is, what are the chances of actually becoming a pilot (any aircraft) if I dont have a degree?

What I mean is, the competition for selection is already really high for people who have degrees and so on. So what is the actual probability of me being selected? Even if I do very well in the selection process?

I'm half way through my PPL training (32 hours flying time so far) and I'm also in the TA (1 year so far). There are 2 officer jobs I would like in the RAF, one being pilot and the other weapons system officer.

Is their competition for places as a weapons system officer aswell? Either way I will still be flying whenever I can (even if it does cost me a small fortune)
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Wzz
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#306
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#306
(Original post by Demon_of_Elru)
Hi,

Just a question about the requirements of selection into pilot training.

The requirements to attend the OASC are 5 GCSE's C+ and 2 A-Level passes.

I'm 19 and just starting my a-levels now..... my question is, what are the chances of actually becoming a pilot (any aircraft) if I dont have a degree?

What I mean is, the competition for selection is already really high for people who have degrees and so on. So what is the actual probability of me being selected? Even if I do very well in the selection process?

I'm half way through my PPL training (32 hours flying time so far) and I'm also in the TA (1 year so far). There are 2 officer jobs I would like in the RAF, one being pilot and the other weapons system officer.

Is their competition for places as a weapons system officer aswell? Either way I will still be flying whenever I can (even if it does cost me a small fortune)
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Demon_of_Elru
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#307
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#307
You repeated my post........ I dont know what you mean by that sorry.
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js_atco
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#308
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#308
To be a become a Pilot Officer you must have the qualifications you mentioned, plus you need to be under 23 years old. As you're only 19, you shouldn't have any problems with age.

As far as I am aware the overriding criteria will be your ability, demonstrated through aptitude tests at Cranwell, as well as how you perform at interview. You'll also need to demonstrate a high level of fitness, and pass medical screening. Some people fall at the final hurdle, being told their vision isn't 6/6, or that they have hearing damage.

Be prepared to put some other branches down on your application, possibly even a ground branch. Just turning up at Cranwell with an application for Pilot is not going to make you look very good. They're more concerned at your will to become a Commissioned Officer in the RAF, not just that you want to fly planes and nothing else!

It's all down to the individual. There's no proven rule as to what makes a successful candidate, just knuckle down for your A-Levels, and be ready for Cranwell.
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Demon_of_Elru
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#309
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#309
Thanks for replying.

Although my question still stands unanswered. I understand whats needed to apply and what to expect from cranwell (thats based on looking throughout this thread and searching around the net)

Like I metioned in my first post there are 2 officer jobs I would like in the RAF. I'm not interested in anyother officer job apart from pilot and weapons system officer....... theres no point in me writing down another officer job because I just wouldn't want it. I totally understand why the RAF would want someone who is interested in being an officer alone and lists down nearly all the officer jobs to apply for..... but I dont think there actual are people like that (if you use some reality). You've got to look at your own interest aswell if you want to make a full-time career and dedicate yourself to the airforce for most of your young/mid years.

I have checked all the RAF jobs availible and the only other one that interests me is an Air Loadmaster job, but decided against pursuing it because I want to be an officer.

Anyway, back to my earlier question. What I'm trying to find out is basically just someones 'experienced' opinion on the likely-hood of me being chosen over a person who has better academic acheivements than me but we both do just aswell in every aspect of the OASC.

So if there are 2 people (me included) trying for an officer pilot job at cranwell and we both do equally well in every test/interview good enough to be chosen.... if they only wanted 1 person they would go for the guy with the degree right?

So I guess that brings up another question; is their any job, acheivement or ANYTHING that I could do within the years I've got until I apply that would favour me over someone with a degree? (in the scenerio I mentioned above)
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js_atco
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#310
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#310
I think you've pretty much answered this question youself. A degree doesn't necessarily get you a job, but it will give an employer certain indications about the sort of person you are.

A graduate is likely to have a bit more maturity than a post A-level student (though this isn't always the case!) The RAF are looking for leaders, people who can not only look after themselves, but effectively manage others too. In addition to gaining education in their chosen field, uni students are increasingly receiving education in management and other essential core skills. I myself graduate this summer, in addition to my degree, I also carry away invaluable experience in project management, team-working, and even marketing!?!

The RAF are also keen to see what other positions of resposibility you have held, especially voluntary ones.
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mrsmeeth
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#311
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#311
(Original post by js_atco)
I think you've pretty much answered this question youself. A degree doesn't necessarily get you a job, but it will give an employer certain indications about the sort of person you are.

A graduate is likely to have a bit more maturity than a post A-level student (though this isn't always the case!) The RAF are looking for leaders, people who can not only look after themselves, but effectively manage others too. In addition to gaining education in their chosen field, uni students are increasingly receiving education in management and other essential core skills. I myself graduate this summer, in addition to my degree, I also carry away invaluable experience in project management, team-working, and even marketing!?!

The RAF are also keen to see what other positions of resposibility you have held, especially voluntary ones.
I asked this question while i was at OASC for sponsorship, according to what I was told, if a pilot needs 5 gcses and 2 a levels, then thats all its based on. a degree earns you no extra credit on paper, just gives you something to fall back onto. just what i was told by my review board
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js_atco
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#312
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#312
On paper maybe, but that statement doesn't necessarily mean a graduate won't come across as more rounded applicant at OASC interviews.
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DRS
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#313
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#313
(Original post by js_atco)
On paper maybe, but that statement doesn't necessarily mean a graduate won't come across as more rounded applicant at OASC interviews.
The biggest problems with degrees are that most people that hold them have only basic academic skills in things like leadership, teamwork etc. They have no experience of the real world, and having a degree does not show anything about a person or how mature they are. The biggest problem is that to many people have them and there is no real value for them anymore.
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Wzz
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#314
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#314
(Original post by js_atco)
On paper maybe, but that statement doesn't necessarily mean a graduate won't come across as more rounded applicant at OASC interviews.
That hits the nail on the head. Apologies for just repeating the post earlier; the server was busy and ate my reply.

A graduate generally is more mature, has more experience, has done more things, and is more accustomed to interviews. They tend to do better; simple fact. On the other hand, I was selected (for sponsorship) aged 17, so it can certainly be done.
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Wzz
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#315
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#315
(Original post by DRS)
The biggest problems with degrees are that most people that hold them have only basic academic skills in things like leadership, teamwork etc. They have no experience of the real world, and having a degree does not show anything about a person or how mature they are. The biggest problem is that to many people have them and there is no real value for them anymore.
A bit of a generalisation. When looking at things like leadership and teamworking, who's likely to have had more experience; the 17 year old still at home, or the same 17 year old who's since left and spent 3 years at university? Living away from home forces you to grow up and adopt a little bit of maturity; at least a little bit.
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DRS
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#316
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#316
(Original post by Wzz)
A bit of a generalisation. When looking at things like leadership and teamworking, who's likely to have had more experience; the 17 year old still at home, or the same 17 year old who's since left and spent 3 years at university? Living away from home forces you to grow up and adopt a little bit of maturity; at least a little bit.
Maybe for some, not all people that go to university go for the right reasons, which is certainly no surprise to anyone.

Not just university will allow you to develop maturity, I myself am just finishing my A-Levels and having just finished a PPL using money that I have earned at the same time as doing these A-Levels I like to think gives me signs of maturity and independance, which very few other 17 year olds can show.
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js_atco
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#317
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#317
Granted. Saving money to increase your career prospects is a mature decision to make. However, do you live independently from your folks? Do you have to juggle your finances weekly to pay mundane things like rent, electric/gas and food?

What Wzz is saying makes sense. I look back to when I left home at 18, and I'm no-where near the same person now. The RAF are more likely to see evidence of maturity in a graduate who's been living away from home for inexcess of 3 years, than a 17/18 year old living at home with the parents. That said, it must depend on whether you're applying for direct entry or sponsorship.
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Demon_of_Elru
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#318
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#318
Saying you’re more mature just because you have a degree is... I guess it depends on what you see "mature" as being. I understand the "living away from home" and basically having to take care of yourself in the real world will give you more real world experience(but not everyone lives away from home). But the term "your more mature than someone" just because you have a degree is like doing an academic IQ test. People who have a very high amount of maths and quantum physics knowledge can get really high scores on certain IQ tests but when it comes to real life situations and dealing with people, knowing what they are thinking and what’s best to do (not in a business sense) is something they are completely lost in. I think its called emotional IQ (not sure). Its like watching Pop Idol, you see people go for auditions and you find out they have bachelor degrees in math and astro-physics but they are too blind to know how utterly crap they are. I personnally know a few guys like this.

I just find it funny when people who have more knowledge in a certain field than someone is automatically pointed out as being more smart and mature.

When I left secondary school I CHOSE not to go to college and do my A-Levels because I was offered a job as a tennis coach at the age of 16. For 2 years I worked there and have dealt with so many difficult situations and have had a high amount of responsibility. I am now registered worldwide and earned the highest marks possible in the USPTR coaching course which I done at age 18 in a class of the highest ranking coaches from all round the UK (pretty daunting stuff). I have also done numerous courses while working in the David Lloyds club.

I left because I never wanted to be a coach; I only joined so to further my own tennis skills and basically coach myself. During that time I even started my own Internet buying and selling business (for extra cash), which was VERY successful, but I could never prove my income over it because I was never paying tax for it (heh, thats another question. If I mentioned that in the interviews would they be bothered about that? or even mention it?). I've been in the TA (Signals) for a year now, which is absolutely great, and I'll continue doing it whilst I'm at school. I'm also half way through my PPL which I began about the same time as joining the TA.... buts its proving to be a bit expensive for me but I’ve got the time and I love it!.

Anyway, I'm not saying I'm "mature" or anything. But I know that I'd never change any of it if I had the choice (Even if it does go against me not getting the RAF career I want).

HOPEFULLY the reason why the RAF hasn’t put a degree as a requirement is for this whole reason. That’s basically why I've been asking the questions I have.
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js_atco
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#319
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#319
It certainly sounds as though you've been doing plenty during the time between school and your A-Levels.

I am not trying to say in any shape or form that people with degrees automatically assume a higher level of intelligence. There's that time-old tale of the university student who can't boil and egg. Believe me, these people DO exist! What should be noted also is that there are university students who can boil eggs, and wash clothes! These students are the ones that may do well at interviews, as they'll appear to have a good academic record, and seem levelheaded too.

As it has been said before, there is no formula to crack OASC, it's based entirely on tests that are designed to discriminate on the grounds of ability, not on an applicant's revision skills. If you feel you have what it takes to be an Officer, no one here should be deterring you!
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Vladek
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#320
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#320
The degree itself isn't what gives students a more mature outlook, its the fact that they've lived away from home for 3 to 4 years looking after themselves, ok so some are a little clueless, but most cope, many courses like my own have a placement year where you have to apply for a profesional job off your own back and work there for a year, i'm not sure how thats not gaining experience in the real world. I know i'm a lot more mature now than when i started uni, if i'd of got a job and worked these 4 years instead of the course i'd still be more mature, its more the time. The degree basically just shows a capability to learn to a higher level than A-levels thats all.

Please don't say degrees are a waste of time though unless you have or are doing one, its a little insulting to the people who put a lot of effort and many years of time into working towards obtaining one.

also it sounds like you just want to join the RAF to get a free jolly around in a plane rather than to join the RAF as an organisation?
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