Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BlackHawk)
    who killed this thread :rolleyes:
    the server going offline the past few days :eek:
    • CV Helper
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    CV Helper
    Wiki Support Team
    I thouht it was only a day?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    seeing as IOT is being extended, does anyone know if this adjustment will have a marked effect on te SERE course????? :smile:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Jealous...no....not at all....just bitter towards a few.

    I stand corrected by myself...only 2 of them actually stood a fighting chance. Also, with only 2 placements in the next 18 months, surely the phases of training seed out those that arent good enough, leaving only a few?
    No, I didnt meet these people at air cadets, in fact, I find that an insult (but you weren't to know).
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by medic_bex)
    seeing as IOT is being extended, does anyone know if this adjustment will have a marked effect on te SERE course????? :smile:
    I've been trying to find that out too. When the details of the course were announced in the RAF news a few weeks ago, there was a link to further info but it didn't work. If you do find anything out can you let me know?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BlackHawk)
    I thouht it was only a day?
    I lost it for a day, it then came back for a little while then I lost it for a day again. If the server was only down a day then I guess it was routing issues with my isp to the servers here.
    • CV Helper
    • Wiki Support Team
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    CV Helper
    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by White)
    Jealous...no....not at all....just bitter towards a few.
    well I'm sure that isn't the attitude to have

    (Original post by White)
    No, I didnt meet these people at air cadets, in fact, I find that an insult (but you weren't to know).
    Why would you find that an insult. There are active Air Cadets on this thread. You attitude seemed very immature hence I believed you to be young and impressionable by certain rumours in the mill.
    • CV Helper
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    CV Helper
    (Original post by White)
    Also, with only 2 placements in the next 18 months, surely the phases of training seed out those that arent good enough, leaving only a few?
    Are you still convinced there's only going to be two new pilots trained in the next 18 months?

    What do we do with the dozen of UASs set up to do elementary training? Bases like Linton, Shawbury and Valley exist purely to train pilots. Do we shut Sixty Sqn because there'll only be 2 pilots to share between the three streams? Keep 2 squadrons at Valley and maintain 80-odd Tucanos at Linton in case one of them gets streamed jets? What about the shiny new King Airs we've got for ME training; not to mention the dozens and dozens of QFIs who need students to train!

    You can't turn off the tap on a training system that's 3-5 years long. You can slowly move instructors away as they reach the end of their tours, but you can't just post them all away; how would they all refresh and retrain, and where would they go? You can't just close an entire base like Linton for no reason; and if we did do this, and shut down because we're only recruiting 2 new pilots over an 18 month period, how would we start it all up again when we have fleets of Typhoon and JCA to fill?

    When deciding how many pilots to recruit we need to look at the numbers you want entering Strike Command in about 2-4 years depending on the stream, and base it on that. Last year, the Into Training Target was 100 newly recruited pilots off to IOT. This year it'll be about the same. The fast jet IPS is 45 (although I actually think 5 of those slots are for RN types); how do we get 45 all through training and into service if you're only going to have us recruit 2 in the next 18 months?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by White)
    Jealous...no....not at all....just bitter towards a few.

    I stand corrected by myself...only 2 of them actually stood a fighting chance. Also, with only 2 placements in the next 18 months, surely the phases of training seed out those that arent good enough, leaving only a few?
    No, I didnt meet these people at air cadets, in fact, I find that an insult (but you weren't to know).
    As the Wzz has said, this is a really fairly ridiculous statement. Recruitment is getting cut drastically, yes, but no, if they were to instantly halt all aircrew recruitment, there would be a huge gap in 8/10 years when suddenly theres no aircrew left. The RAF is still engaging benefits to counter the "pull of civilian airlines" - if you need the details of this its in hansard somewhere - therefore there is ABSOLUTELY no way that there is going to be 2 pilots this year.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Question for all:

    "Why do people with a degree end up being Student Officers and those without end up as Cadet Officer [sic]? And subsequently, those with a degree end up being promoted higher, initially, and therefore paid more?"

    How does this fit it with equality and diversity of background?

    Now, before anyone comes back with, "Well graduates are showing they can study and rewarded for said efforts", think about this.

    How about a volunteer (Tarquin), who works minimally hours for a small wage, but volunteers his bum off for everything in the community for the other 22 hours in the day and weekends. He gets award-r-us for recognising these efforts and the obvious satisfaction he's making a difference to the community. He (or She) has single handedly raised thousands of pounds for a charity project and has personally saved life’s. Tarquin plays lots of team sports and does well in them. This has gone on since leaving College (4 yrs ago).

    Now think about a bod who went to uni to study marine and tidal patterns (basically 85% surfing to the uninitiated!). Lets call him Brad for namesake. Brad had a rough time at uni. His grades weren't that good, but he did a bit of community work here and there. Joined the ATC as an instructor. Went Rock Climbing a lot. (non-group activities). By a stroke of luck, he managed to scrape a 2:2.

    Roll the picture forward 1/2 a year. Both candidates passed OASC and are completing IOT. Brads a Student Officer, destined for Flying Officer on graduation whereas Tarquins a Cadet Officer destined for Acting Pilot Officer.

    The question again: How does this equate?

    (please ignore any minor inaccuracies in the above and look at the overall picture)

    - This is likely to stimulate debate.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    It's a interesting question. I'd like to hear the views of the people frequenting this thread. I have my own views but they are really based on - and indeed biased towards - my own circumstances.

    Just to play devil's advocate, what about Jack and Jill? Jack is 18 and just finished A levels, whereas Jill is 22 and studied hard for a good degree.

    Having both demonstrated the same evidence of leadership, teamwork, sporting involvement et cetera, should Jill not be rewarded for her extra efforts?

    I wonder where this policy came from and what it is thought of internally.

    Also, does anyone have a rough idea of the ratio of gradautes:non-graduates?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    i think its the same everywhere, if you are a graduate, you can expect to enter a job at a higher level, for more money. if that wasn't the case, i'm sure that, with the exception of a few disciplines, most people wouldn't bother with university as it is 3 years of debt and stagnation of a possible career. supposedly you come away with better skills but i'm not sure i agree with some degrees (ooh, rhyme!) and i don't think they are of any use except for academics
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    It passes diversity of background because uni's also accept people from a diverse background, there is no financial limit to entrance to uni because you will be given help depending on your financial ability to pay. There are such a wide variety of courses there is something that would apeal to everyone if they actually look hard enough and not just write uni off for them because they THINK its not for them. Plus, you have a choice, if you want to enter the RAF as a student officer and get promoted quicker then there is nothing stopping you finding this out during A levels and so choosing to go to university. University also demonstrates a students ability to pass (what ever they happened to be interested in).

    Basically seeing as uni's accept people from extremely diverse backgrounds, from a university student the RAF is still accepting people from diverse backgrounds but with commitmant behind them to pass something they are interested in, it shows an ability to study at a acedemic level, something which is required to pass exams you would do leading up to you becoming an officer.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Wouldn't actually passing said exams demonstrate an ability to study at an academic level?

    I think cwarrento's point was that two people graduating IOT should be treated equally regardless of background. This bears no relation to selection.

    It's a fair point in my opinion, yet I'm also thankful of the graduate benefits, else what was the point of my degree?

    To complicate the issue, what about those branches which require a professional qualification?
    • CV Helper
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    CV Helper
    (Original post by cwarranto)
    "Why do people with a degree end up being Student Officers and those without end up as Cadet Officer [sic]? And subsequently, those with a degree end up being promoted higher, initially, and therefore paid more?"
    Because as a graduate employer, if the RAF offered a £15k starting salary with 5 years to go until you reached Flt Lt, no graduates would join. Timed promotion works so that Jim with his BSc in 3 years, John with his DE straight from school, and Jill with her 4 year MSc all arrive as Flt Lts at the same time.

    If you made the job only attractive to people who don't plan to go to uni, you lose your diversity. A graduate is more mature, often more capable than he/she would have been 3/4 years ago, and; like it or not; has proven they can hack a 3/4 year program of work.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Wzz)
    A graduate is more mature, often more capable than he/she would have been 3/4 years ago, and; like it or not; has proven they can hack a 3/4 year program of work.
    Ahhh, but for the great unwashed tax-dodgers, the final thing that counts is their exam mark / essay / module results / dissertation - not HOW they learn't it. Often you will find "all nighters" being pulled. Coffee / Red Bull mix etc. This proves they haven't spend their time wisely and have been a. in the union too much, b. seeing that red-head from the copy place far too much to be health or c. working hard to repay debts from said drinking! (not a-typical throught students i hasten too add)

    For someone who's been in work per sey, their whole working practise / Learning & Development is called into account. WHAT you do, HOW you do it, and WHAT the outcome was. It all comes into scruitiny.

    Now don't get me wrong. I don't sit on the wrong side of the fence on this, but i am wondering what the other side has to say.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Considering this reprehensible graduate has to pass the same unquestionably effective selection procedure I think any evidence of the 'living-it-large' attitude would be spotted and duly dealt with.

    It's a level playing field right through selection, and everyone on IOT got there on merit of their attitude, personality, potential and experiences.

    Only when handing out ranks and pay grades are academic histories considered, and even then only to bring everyone into line so to speak, as Wzz explained.

    There are obviously exceptions and you can't please everyone, but as a whole I would imagine the current system works well.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    My AFCO officer told me that there are only 2 pilot placements in the next 18 months...im only relaying what i've been told, maybe he meant that there are only 2 fast jet placements, im not sure myself.

    Im a soldier in the TA, we share a common view that cadets are worthless, ok, maybe not worthless, but they're playing at being soldiers, even myself as an ex cadet, I feel that im better than any cadet, ive had real experiences to train me for real operations doing a real job, under real circumstances, but please dont take offence, im sure there are strong arguements against my comments. As an ex cadet i'm not prejudice, but please lets not continue an arguement that I feel by saying this has provoked.

    As for the bitter attitude I hold towards certain candidates at OASC, I do have backing.

    I applied for a 6th form scholarship a year ago. There I met private schoolboys left right and centre- all of them wanted to become pilots one day. So daddy and mummy pay something like £3000 PER TERM to attend school, with I believe 3 terms per year thats £9000 per school year. Taking this into account this is roughly £18000 to attend 6th form at a private school (figures taken from my friends girlfriend, who DOESN'T board....).
    So at OASC you have...god knows how many private schoolboys applying for 1/18 of their school fees...£1000 doesnt stretch much does it.



    Lets look at the other side of the coin:

    It costs me nothing to attend school, im a typical, hard(ish) working student. My parents are fairly hard up at times, but they get by. I pay board every now and then, but £1000 would sort out bills towards keeping me, it would loosen the load in terms of finance in general, and make it so that if i need utensils etc. I can do so easier than before.

    £1000 stretches a long way, and means more.

    I felt sorry for the other people like me, competing against people for something that they needed, even, deserved, more than that of the majority.

    This is the fuel of my slightly prejudice opinion to what I label 'wannabee' pilots.

    To those of you like me, from my background achieving then well done.
    For every private, rich, schoolboy that reads this, I (emphasising 'I') feel that you dont deserve any money towards your studying- you already have it.

    All opinions and arguements against the way I feel is welcomed. With how strongly I feel against it, I could sit here for days.

    I was one of the lucky comprehensive boys.

    No offence intended in this post to anyone.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by White)
    I was one of the lucky comprehensive boys
    What do you mean by this? Am I to assume you were awarded a scholarship?

    I won't lie to you, I don't really understand your logic in believing the scholarship should be awarded to the most needy rather than the most prepared, focussed, determined and able. How can you rank deservedness on parental bank balances? - It isn't just about the money.

    Incidentally, are you sure they were all from public school and not just southerners? They all sound posh to me...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by White)
    As for the bitter attitude I hold towards certain candidates at OASC, I do have backing.

    I applied for a 6th form scholarship a year ago. There I met private schoolboys left right and centre- all of them wanted to become pilots one day. So daddy and mummy pay something like £3000 PER TERM to attend school, with I believe 3 terms per year thats £9000 per school year. Taking this into account this is roughly £18000 to attend 6th form at a private school (figures taken from my friends girlfriend, who DOESN'T board....).
    So at OASC you have...god knows how many private schoolboys applying for 1/18 of their school fees...£1000 doesnt stretch much does it.


    I was one of the lucky comprehensive boys.

    No offence intended in this post to anyone.

    Your stereotype of people attending private school isn't quite accurate. I attended a private school up until 6th form, and whilst my parents are comfortable, I wouldn't say we were anywhere near the category you describe above; as is the case with the vast majority of my friends who attended. yes, one or two may have been like that, but they were by far in the minority; very few were 'rich'.

    I've put a lot of hardwork, time and effort into applying for the 6FS and think I'm as deserving as anyone else, regardless of background. It's not about the money, it's about showing I'm determined and motivated to join the RAF and am willing to do what it takes to get there.If people are just applying for the money, perhaps they're looking at the wrong career.
 
 
 
The home of Results and Clearing

3,812

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
Will you be tempted to trade up and get out of your firm offer on results day?
Useful resources

Articles:

Guide to the armed forcesGuide to the Royal Air ForceA job in the Army

Featured recruiter profiles:

Army logo

The Army is recruiting now

"With hundreds of roles available, there’s more than one way to be the best."

Quick Link:

Unanswered Armed Forces Threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.