BlackHawk
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#4021
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#4021
(Original post by mankyscot2)
god you guys know your stuff.

looks like i will be needing to swat up a bit.

does anyone know when the next leuchars airshow is, and out of everyone who might be going. Also, are there any other good airshows on soon, and again, are any of you thinking of going?
no, must study more! The stuff above is really the tip of the iceberg to be honest.

Leuchars is September as Wzz said, details can be found on the raf site and a few of us may meet up. We'll arrange it over the summer I imagine.
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Wzz
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#4022
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#4022
(Original post by mankyscot2)
yes i can take being asked a few questions, but every time i answered one she had another lined up. i just thought she was really nasty about it, like she was thinking 'oh god not another damn pilot..'

okay, i know that i should have known alot about the RAF before going but i specifically asked her if i could just get some information.

its what they are there for isn't it, fair enough if i went to OASC without knowing anything that would just be silly.
There's no recruiting issue for pilot slots. They can afford to be less than friendly, they can afford to test you a little from the moment you walk in the door. If you think "screw them, they don't deserve me, if they're not going to be nice then I'm off" then fine. If you think "wow, that was hard, I best study my ass off if I want to join as a pilot," then even better. Some AFCOs will be nice to you. Some won't. You only need to look at my email inbox to see the number of people vaguely interested in being a pilot who have had one look at Top Gun and started heading for their AFCOs.

No-one expects you to know everything when you arrive. If you can't take her personally, then that's a shame; if she was telling you stuff you need to know, then you'll be glad she did in a while.

Maybe she had just had a bad day, who knows?
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Wzz
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#4023
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#4023
(Original post by mankyscot2)
are you a pilot Wzz?

if not what did you mean by you will be bringing a jet up?
Yes I am, and by bringing a jet up, I mean I'm one of the names on the list to fly the spare up for the display pilot; so hopefully I'll at least be in one of the four available seats!
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BlackHawk
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#4024
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#4024
(Original post by Wzz)
28km/h? Well, the T1'll do something like 550kts at low level if you find one unbent enough to still do it, and the maximum speed varies with height. Up high, it's technically limited to M1.2 but you're a bit brave to convince it to do that. 28km/h over 550kts isn't really very much at all. I should imagine from brakes off to 2000ft at 420kts, the T1'd beat it.

The T1A technically has the capacity for all sorts of stuff, but I don't think you'll find it carrying Paveway as it's got no need for anything precision guided. It can carry dumb bombs, so technically it could lug a Paveway airborne and get something else to lase for it, but we'd be getting a bit desperate. Likewise, I can't remember the last time a T1A got airborne carrying a live Sidewinder or even rockets.
I never intended to pass across that the T1 would necessarily have a constant operating speed at limits. Just that the manufacturers have said the 128 will be faster, that as I said, is debatable. You're right though, a heavier frame with the same engine type doesn't exactly bode well for accelerations let alone maximum operating speeds.

As for missile capacities, its not about if they ever hold them but can they I think thats what the OASC blokies are more interested in when they give me a grilling. So though it may technically carry a Paveway, is it specified to like the 128 will be?

Blah hope that makes sense, I'm rambling a lot and just typing what I'm thinking.
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jskarl
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#4025
Report 14 years ago
#4025
Hiya all. I'm 16 and in the army. I have always wanted to be a pilot and joined the army for personal development. I'm currently in basic training, getting paid a good full time wage and doing a-levels (maths, and physics - distant learning).

The army has tought me some vital lessons and i've changed so much as a person. I've learned how important organisation and admin (ironing expert!) is and have alot more confidence and know why respect is important and how to give it. I'm also fitter than ever. No disrespect intended but the army probably is (on average) physically more demanding.

I joined the army first because it's natural for all newbies to be a shack of **** lol. So i wanted the chincks in my armour to be hammered out (brake and remake they call it). Due to how the army moulds your attitude towards things i think im at maximum performance in my a-levels. I did do well at school (well all B's) but I used to put no effort in. Did 1 peice of homework for the two years. Messed around in lessons! Didn't revise much! Wen I got my results back I woz well chuffed. Now wen i think about i feel like crying! If I wud hav applied myself 100% I know I wud have got A's mabe some A*'s as well.

I'm hoping to complete my AS at the same time as my Basic training (42 week corse). Then when I move to phaze 2 (trade training) do A2. Then I'll have my trade and a-levels. I'll be 18 and am hoping that the RAF will accept the transfer.

The Problem: (I'd much appreciate current officers/pilots to help me with this)

I have been told that I need to fill out form 214B to transfer from the army to the RAF. However that is if the army don't need me. If I preform badly then the army will not need me however if I am not needed by the army then the RAF won't want me. Pilot's a top job so.... I need help really badly.

My other option is to come out of the army but that is a bad option as well.

1.) It'll eat me up inside that I didn't finnish all of basic (I only have 1 month before my DAOR window (time which im allowed to leave the army) closes.
2.) I'll look like a quiter.
3.) financially insecure.
4.) I have to wait a year before i can applie to the RAF.
5.) If I fail the pilot selection i don't have anything to fall back on.

Please Please Please Please can you help me (give advice) if you can.

PS: The RAF really needs to improve on recruiting. When you go into an Army Careas office they welcome you in an make you a brew and treat you like a geust. The RAF (from my experience - on the phone)arn't very helpful and don't sound like they get job satisfaction. - I don't mean to upset any one it's just constructive critisism.

thanks for your time my email is [email protected]
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mankyscot2
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#4026
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#4026
(Original post by Wzz)
Yes I am, and by bringing a jet up, I mean I'm one of the names on the list to fly the spare up for the display pilot; so hopefully I'll at least be in one of the four available seats!
that is ace mate, so since OASC how long has it taken you to get to this stage?

and you are right about not being afraid to be asked questions, i suppose i just want to be a pilot so much that i'm scared that i will answer the questions wrong.

vigourous studying will help with that side of things, i like studying for the RAF far more than any other studying i have ever done.
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Wzz
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#4027
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#4027
(Original post by jskarl)
PS: The RAF really needs to improve on recruiting. When you go into an Army Careas office they welcome you in an make you a brew and treat you like a geust. The RAF (from my experience - on the phone)arn't very helpful and don't sound like they get job satisfaction. - I don't mean to upset any one it's just constructive critisism.[/email]
Perhaps you'd like to have a peek at how many applicants we have for every single slot as a pilot before saying that? The Army have a fairly large recruiting problem for a very good reason. There's no such problem in the RAF; some branches and trades are down, but in general, we're fine; and in some branches, massively oversubscribed. If that's the case, you don't need to attract people.
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BlackHawk
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#4028
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#4028
(Original post by jskarl)
Hiya all. I'm 16 and in the army. I have always wanted to be a pilot and joined the army for personal development. I'm currently in basic training, getting paid a good full time wage and doing a-levels (maths, and physics - distant learning).

The army has tought me some vital lessons and i've changed so much as a person. I've learned how important organisation and admin (ironing expert!) is and have alot more confidence and know why respect is important and how to give it. I'm also fitter than ever. No disrespect intended but the army probably is (on average) physically more demanding.
I can't see any disrespect being taken from that, it is common knowledge the army is more physical.
(Original post by jskarl)
I joined the army first because it's natural for all newbies to be a shack of **** lol. So i wanted the chincks in my armour to be hammered out (brake and remake they call it). Due to how the army moulds your attitude towards things i think im at maximum performance in my a-levels. I did do well at school (well all B's) but I used to put no effort in. Did 1 peice of homework for the two years. Messed around in lessons! Didn't revise much! Wen I got my results back I woz well chuffed. Now wen i think about i feel like crying! If I wud hav applied myself 100% I know I wud have got A's mabe some A*'s as well.

I'm hoping to complete my AS at the same time as my Basic training (42 week corse). Then when I move to phaze 2 (trade training) do A2. Then I'll have my trade and a-levels. I'll be 18 and am hoping that the RAF will accept the transfer.

The Problem: (I'd much appreciate current officers/pilots to help me with this)

I have been told that I need to fill out form 214B to transfer from the army to the RAF. However that is if the army don't need me. If I preform badly then the army will not need me however if I am not needed by the army then the RAF won't want me. Pilot's a top job so.... I need help really badly.

My other option is to come out of the army but that is a bad option as well.

1.) It'll eat me up inside that I didn't finnish all of basic (I only have 1 month before my DAOR window (time which im allowed to leave the army) closes.
2.) I'll look like a quiter.
3.) financially insecure.
4.) I have to wait a year before i can applie to the RAF.
5.) If I fail the pilot selection i don't have anything to fall back on.

Please Please Please Please can you help me (give advice) if you can.

PS: The RAF really needs to improve on recruiting. When you go into an Army Careas office they welcome you in an make you a brew and treat you like a geust. The RAF (from my experience - on the phone)arn't very helpful and don't sound like they get job satisfaction. - I don't mean to upset any one it's just constructive critisism.

thanks for your time my email is [email protected]

A few questions. Why do you want to join the RAF, you are currently in the army, so why not apply for the AAC? the RAF is by no means short of pilot currently especially with the cuts so why would they look to pick you up from the army? I would advise you to go in and speak to your local AFCO RAF officers who can advise about changing force. Also, there is a member who posts on here who is transferring from Army to RAF but he has served already. My advice would be to finish training, you're still very young. Do you service as you originally planned to do. You have plently of time until the limit of 23 to apply.
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Wzz
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#4029
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#4029
(Original post by BlackHawk)
Just that the manufacturers have said the 128 will be faster, that as I said, is debatable.

As for missile capacities, its not about if they ever hold them but can they I think thats what the OASC blokies are more interested in when they give me a grilling. So though it may technically carry a Paveway, is it specified to like the 128 will be?
Fair enough, I'll give you that one

You can point out that the Hawk 100 series can carry a whole variety of weapons, but our 128s won't be equipped with Paveway because there's no need for them to be. Then, you can mention that it's more than likely it won't carry anything, because with the successes we've had with the NFTC program, we're likely to follow them and go completely dry for FJ TW training. While the airframe might be fairly capable, we have no need for it to be properly operational, so we're not going to hang weapons off it. Likewise, for missiles, it'll be able to fire Sidewinders but we'll hang acquisition rounds off it to play with but won't ever equip it as a point defence fighter.

In effect, the T1 and 128 are as useful as each other at carrying a Paveway. They can, but it's too heavy, and they can't lase a target, and have no operational role. Plus, while BAe will tell you the Hawk and Hawk 100 series can carry them, we're never going to outfit them to do it, so we won't have an IPT looking at it, we won't have test pilots checking the airframe with them hanging off, so it's irrelevant.

Tell the interviewers what we will be hanging off it (CBLS for practice bombs, Sidewinder acqui rounds) and mention the chance of binning CBLS for a dry, weaponless TW syllabus like NFTC.
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BlackHawk
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#4030
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#4030
(Original post by Wzz)
Fair enough, I'll give you that one

You can point out that the Hawk 100 series can carry a whole variety of weapons, but our 128s won't be equipped with Paveway because there's no need for them to be. Then, you can mention that it's more than likely it won't carry anything, because with the successes we've had with the NFTC program, we're likely to follow them and go completely dry for FJ TW training. While the airframe might be fairly capable, we have no need for it to be properly operational, so we're not going to hang weapons off it. Likewise, for missiles, it'll be able to fire Sidewinders but we'll hang acquisition rounds off it to play with but won't ever equip it as a point defence fighter.

In effect, the T1 and 128 are as useful as each other at carrying a Paveway. They can, but it's too heavy, and they can't lase a target, and have no operational role. Plus, while BAe will tell you the Hawk and Hawk 100 series can carry them, we're never going to outfit them to do it, so we won't have an IPT looking at it, we won't have test pilots checking the airframe with them hanging off, so it's irrelevant.

Tell the interviewers what we will be hanging off it (CBLS for practice bombs, Sidewinder acqui rounds) and mention the chance of binning CBLS for a dry, weaponless TW syllabus like NFTC.
thanks for that information.

At the end of the day though, the Hawks are fitted with the capabilities of carrying these missles for a reason. Its safe to assume that a Hawk wouldn't be used as a front line low level attack aircraft unless Tornados were having a bit of an off day. It purely for the reason that the Hawk T1 was one of the best investments for the RAF. Look at all the countries we have sold them off to. Thats why Hawks have the capability, not that we will ever intend to use it.
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Wzz
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#4031
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#4031
(Original post by BlackHawk)
At the end of the day though, the Hawks are fitted with the capabilities of carrying these missles for a reason.
We'd never use them properly; our Hawks just aren't geared for that task. The original T1As did point defence duties, but not anymore; and it'd have to be proper, 1940s, Germans-knocking-on-the-White-Cliffs stuff before we thought about using T1As or 128s to actually go and shoot something.

However, you're right; it's a capable little airframe. Just look at what people do with the the Hawk 200 series; they're used as single-seat fighters in some places.
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mankyscot2
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#4032
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#4032
(Original post by Wzz)
We'd never use them properly; our Hawks just aren't geared for that task. The original T1As did point defence duties, but not anymore; and it'd have to be proper, 1940s, Germans-knocking-on-the-White-Cliffs stuff before we thought about using T1As or 128s to actually go and shoot something.

However, you're right; it's a capable little airframe. Just look at what people do with the the Hawk 200 series; they're used as single-seat fighters in some places.
i'm trying to find a picture of the 128 online, and i'm having difficulty.

can you give me the full name of the plane please.
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Wzz
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#4033
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#4033
(Original post by mankyscot2)
i'm trying to find a picture of the 128 online, and i'm having difficulty.

can you give me the full name of the plane please.
A plane is something for woodworking

http://www.mod.uk/dpa/news/pn2003/ju...wk_trainer.htm
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/hawk128.html

It looks like a fairly generic 100-series Hawk, so look at 115s etc for an idea. If you can find a decent photo of the tech demonstrator, ZJ100, that'll do.
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mankyscot2
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#4034
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#4034
(Original post by Wzz)
A plane is something for woodworking

http://www.mod.uk/dpa/news/pn2003/ju...wk_trainer.htm
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/hawk128.html

It looks like a fairly generic 100-series Hawk, so look at 115s etc for an idea. If you can find a decent photo of the tech demonstrator, ZJ100, that'll do.
cheers mate, i was looking at the exact same page when you posted that post.
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Scorg
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#4035
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#4035
(Original post by Wzz)
A plane is something for woodworking

http://www.mod.uk/dpa/news/pn2003/ju...wk_trainer.htm
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/hawk128.html

It looks like a fairly generic 100-series Hawk, so look at 115s etc for an idea. If you can find a decent photo of the tech demonstrator, ZJ100, that'll do.
anything like a hawk 127 ? as ive found a good collection of those on airliners.net

Oh, Leuchars airshow this year, September 10th. Its on my doorstep in case nobody guessed (pointing at location )
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mankyscot2
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#4036
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#4036
would it be a good idea to join the raf reserve, to gain experience and to help with my application?
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Rab
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#4037
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#4037
Hey Nikki you still not heard?
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BlackHawk
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#4038
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#4038
(Original post by mankyscot2)
would it be a good idea to join the raf reserve, to gain experience and to help with my application?
RAF Reserves fall into two basic categories, Reserve following active service and Volunteer Reserves. the former is self explanatory. The VRs fall into UASs and VR units which are now the RAuxAF. You would have a minimum term of service of 5 years.

not the best idea maybe?
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BlackHawk
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#4039
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#4039
(Original post by Rab)
Hey Nikki you still not heard?
few pages back
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mankyscot2
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#4040
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#4040
(Original post by BlackHawk)
RAF Reserves fall into two basic categories, Reserve following active service and Volunteer Reserves. the former is self explanatory. The VRs fall into UASs and VR units which are now the RAuxAF. You would have a minimum term of service of 5 years.

not the best idea maybe?
right so that is out the window then.

just working out some of my options.
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