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    (Original post by mankyscot2)
    right so that is out the window then.

    just working out some of my options.
    If you want to volunteer, ATC is your best bet. Unless you want to do something like the TA which doesn't have a minimum commitment but then again I would like to be able to go to IOT asap.
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    (Original post by Scorg)
    anything like a hawk 127 ? as ive found a good collection of those on airliners.net

    Oh, Leuchars airshow this year, September 10th. Its on my doorstep in case nobody guessed (pointing at location )
    Yes, very similar to the 127. And the 132, 115, etc etc. They're the same airframe, the differing type number refers to the specific customer fit. It's still a Hawk 100 at the end of the day.
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    Thankyou for your replie.

    It's not the case that every soldier is fitter than of the RAf because my platoon is full of pie munchers? lol

    The Army air corps only has the Apache longbow, Gazel, Linx - all helicopters (only 1 of which id ever consider going to war in - apache ( which the Americans had in the 70's).

    I agree with you that i would be better off doing all my training (phase 1 and phase 2 first). I think i am going to do that.

    " the RAF is by no means short of pilot currently especially with the cuts so why would they look to pick you up from the army? "

    To be a pilot (and an officer) i know you have to be the best and you have to stand out from the crowd because there is so much competition ,when I apply for the RAF I'll be able to say ,when i'm 18:

    have done my a-levels (most people do these soley, mabe a part time job at the same time - and I know i'll do well because i have more drive and determination than any civvy), Done army basic training (trust me not an easy thing at all and says alot about somebody), Have been paid a wage on a par with most first jobs (people who left school and spent all day (doing nothing else) but working). I'll have also completed phase 2 (I'm currently going in Royal Signals) so i'll be a systems engineering technician (think it's the highest paid trade in the Army).

    Wots most of the other candidets got? went to cadets since i woz 12 (made the rank of sergeant (sorry if this isn't an RAF rank)). Got A-levels as well. Quite fit. The fittest probably have a BFA (1.5 mile run time) of 9:00. I do it in 8:15.

    When people first apply to the forces and get there. Your not the best you can be. That's the idea of being trained (character biulding ect). I'll already have most of that (I know that it's probably a bit different in the RAf because there is a better cailibure of people - As in intellegence ect.

    (Sorry i don't mean to sound condecending I know you've probably done it all and have been in the RAF for 15 years or so.)

    I am a soldier. I know what it's like for the people on the ground and can apreciate it. People who have never done it don't know. I'm not saying the RAF is easy because I know it's probably damm hard to. The Army and The RAF has different purposes tho. When I land the plane and I'v had to drop bombs I think I'll have more will to keep going because I know the importance of what it means (I no others can as well but it's only thoughts I have first hand (not operational) of what its like for infantry ect).

    I see your point in regards to RAF recruiting. If your really want it you'll come back and then come back again and then come back again and again and agin ect.
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    (Original post by jskarl)
    Thankyou for your replie.

    It's not the case that every soldier is fitter than of the RAf because my platoon is full of pie munchers? lol

    The Army air corps only has the Apache longbow, Gazel, Linx - all helicopters (only 1 of which id ever consider going to war in - apache ( which the Americans had in the 70's).

    I agree with you that i would be better off doing all my training (phase 1 and phase 2 first). I think i am going to do that.

    " the RAF is by no means short of pilot currently especially with the cuts so why would they look to pick you up from the army? "

    To be a pilot (and an officer) i know you have to be the best and you have to stand out from the crowd because there is so much competition ,when I apply for the RAF I'll be able to say ,when i'm 18:

    have done my a-levels (most people do these soley, mabe a part time job at the same time - and I know i'll do well because i have more drive and determination than any civvy), Done army basic training (trust me not an easy thing at all and says alot about somebody), Have been paid a wage on a par with most first jobs (people who left school and spent all day (doing nothing else) but working). I'll have also completed phase 2 (I'm currently going in Royal Signals) so i'll be a systems engineering technician (think it's the highest paid trade in the Army).

    Wots most of the other candidets got? went to cadets since i woz 12 (made the rank of sergeant (sorry if this isn't an RAF rank)). Got A-levels as well. Quite fit. The fittest probably have a BFA (1.5 mile run time) of 9:00. I do it in 8:15.

    When people first apply to the forces and get there. Your not the best you can be. That's the idea of being trained (character biulding ect). I'll already have most of that (I know that it's probably a bit different in the RAf because there is a better cailibure of people - As in intellegence ect.

    (Sorry i don't mean to sound condecending I know you've probably done it all and have been in the RAF for 15 years or so.)

    I am a soldier. I know what it's like for the people on the ground and can apreciate it. People who have never done it don't know. I'm not saying the RAF is easy because I know it's probably damm hard to. The Army and The RAF has different purposes tho. When I land the plane and I'v had to drop bombs I think I'll have more will to keep going because I know the importance of what it means (I no others can as well but it's only thoughts I have first hand (not operational) of what its like for infantry ect).

    I see your point in regards to RAF recruiting. If your really want it you'll come back and then come back again and then come back again and again and agin ect.
    The Apache may been an older type of helio but that doesn't make it any less effective in its role, nor does it make it redundant. Whats wrong with flying a helio?

    So you went to ATC as a kid and passed through school, so what? So you passed basic Army training. Great, they taught you how to follow and obey orders. Not to lead men and be an officer. To be brutally honest being in the ATC and earning a wage has bugger all to do with anything. You will be competing against guys who have bachelors degrees, masters degrees, have 8 As at 8 level, joined ATCs, joined UASs, have finished EFT and have the marks already to show they could go FJ, basically a whole variety of people. You aren't stuck in an age group. You will be with guys from 17.5-23.5. You have you prove you are better than them and being in the Army doesn't show an OASC board that. It only raises the question why did you go into the Army if you wanted the RAF? Why not join the RAF first? What if the RAF invest in you as a pilot and you decide to bugger off back to the army halfway through IOT? You have to come across as a good investment and those reasons don't I'm afraid. Its great that you understand what its like on the ground but the gap between that and an officer is quite wide, let alone that and aircrew.
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    (Original post by jskarl)
    The Army air corps only has the Apache longbow, Gazel, Linx - all helicopters (only 1 of which id ever consider going to war in - apache ( which the Americans had in the 70's).
    So how are you going to feel when the RAF send you to fly something which isn't your top choice? Very niaive to assume that you'll get your first choice. Do you really want to be a pilot, or what?

    (Original post by jskarl)
    when I apply for the RAF I'll be able to say ,when i'm 18:

    have done my a-levels (most people do these soley, mabe a part time job at the same time - and I know i'll do well because i have more drive and determination than any civvy), Done army basic training (trust me not an easy thing at all and says alot about somebody), Have been paid a wage on a par with most first jobs (people who left school and spent all day (doing nothing else) but working). I'll have also completed phase 2 (I'm currently going in Royal Signals) so i'll be a systems engineering technician (think it's the highest paid trade in the Army).
    What does this give you over any other candidate? The only difference is that you've been "paid a wage." What about the airman aircrew and RAF trade guys applying; how will you stand out from them? A university graduate with 3 years on a UAS and 60 hours flying, with a high average pass at EFT? Someone straight from school who aced their A levels while working as a volunteer, raising money for charity, and holding down a part time job?

    There's nothing specifically impressive about passing Army basic training. Compared to 99% of the stuff you claim to want to get into; IOT, flying training et al; it's vastly simpler. You'll be in competition with some very bright, very capable, very very intelligent high achieving people. I don't want to rubbish anything you're saying, but you get many, many more high quality graduates in the RAF than you do crossover ex-Army NCOs.

    (Original post by jskarl)
    Wots most of the other candidets got? went to cadets since i woz 12 (made the rank of sergeant (sorry if this isn't an RAF rank)). Got A-levels as well. Quite fit. The fittest probably have a BFA (1.5 mile run time) of 9:00. I do it in 8:15.
    You'll find that people on IOT manage their 1.5 miles in 7 mins 30 secs, or at least some did when I arrived there. Do not arrive thinking that an Army level of fitness puts you necessarily anywhere near the top level of fitness an RAF officer will have.

    With reference to other candidates, I don't mean to be harsh, but look at the level of your spelling and grammar to begin with. How's that going to come across on an application form? How's that going to seem when you try to make your first impression to an interviewing officer? How is your English diagnostic test going to weight your application? I don't claim to be perfect when it comes to the written word by a long shot, but think about it.

    (Original post by jskarl)
    When people first apply to the forces and get there. Your not the best you can be. That's the idea of being trained (character biulding ect). I'll already have most of that (I know that it's probably a bit different in the RAf because there is a better cailibure of people - As in intellegence ect.
    You're completely right that successfully joining the forces does not mean you're what they want yet. However, it's extremely immature to claim that a small amount of Army basic training means you're what the RAF want from an officer and a pilot. Are you suggesting that your training could enable you to jump some of IOT? The further officer development? Flying training? You're what the Army want from a young guy straight in as a soldier; not what we look for in an officer.

    (Original post by jskarl)
    I am a soldier. I know what it's like for the people on the ground and can apreciate it. People who have never done it don't know. I'm not saying the RAF is easy because I know it's probably damm hard to.
    Again, that's a slightly immature viewpoint; and also unnecessary. I don't need to know everything about what it's like for the people on the ground, because my job does not always directly influence that. You're right that the training you'd receive as a pilot is exceptionally hard. Exceptionally. The numbers who pass out from the end of fast jet training are absolutely tiny; even EFT is likely to stretch you much, much more than anything you'll have done in the Army.

    (Original post by jskarl)
    The Army and The RAF has different purposes tho. When I land the plane and I'v had to drop bombs I think I'll have more will to keep going because I know the importance of what it means (I no others can as well but it's only thoughts I have first hand (not operational) of what its like for infantry ect).
    It doesn't work like that. See my above comment; I wouldn't be inclined to just give up and not fly again because I don't know how much someone on the ground would appreciate my last sortie. You do your job to the best of your ability, all the time, regardless of what the specifics of that job are, because you're a professional.

    I know this will seem like another of the remarkably harsh posts that I tend to get critical private messages about all the time, but I hope it serves as a minor reality check. Based on what you've said, you do not come across as anywhere near ready to become an officer in the RAF, nor to become a pilot. Congratulations on having your sights set on something, but do not become complacent for a second and think that anything you've done in the Army will be of any help whatsoever. You seem to have very little idea about the work you'd be doing and the training you'd receive, and fair enough, you're at the beginning of thinking about it so that's to be accepted. I applaud your confidence, but if you came out with some of the comments you've made to me in an interview I wouldn't rank you any higher.

    You need to research this job long and hard, and I fully recommend you do. Have you thought about the AAC properly? Do you know what life in the RAF is like compared to the Army? Did you realise you could be an NCO pilot in the AAC, removing the need for officer training? How much studying have you done?

    Feel free to PM, email, or reply with your thoughts.
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    firstly - spelling and grammer. Thats just because I'm a rush typer. I don't proof read what i write on forums (well i check that i have all my points down but not speeling and grammar).

    Wen i refered to the AAC helicopters i wasn't saying that I would be overly bothered if i got first choice in the RAF. It's just I don't rate any of the helicopters the army has.

    I think your wrong about that not saying much. 3 different lifes cramed into 2 years does say alot about a person. Having the drive to pull yourself up when every day your told your nothing is something, it does show character.

    I've worked for oxfam for a year before i joined the army.

    No doupt there will be very stiff competition. The stories we hear about pilot training sounds very exciting (And hard). I don't know weather or not any of it is true. We were told that you get dumped on cateric moore with a pair of overalls, boots (no laces), map and compass and told to find your way to a point. While the SAS chase you.

    After reading what I haave written some off it doesn't come out as I wanted. I'm not saying that it's harder than IOT or anything like that. It must look better if i have military experience. I know the members of the RAF are better than the Army. It doesn't really take quality to get shot at, just bravery.

    I know officers are very very fit. My platoon comander in the Army does it in 7:15. I'm not saying that i'm near the level of fitness that I need to be at.

    I agree with you that it did sound immature when I said about army training. What I meant was that I'd be better prepared.

    As for the rest your correct. I am just starting out in my research of the RAF this is why i'm on this forum. I have absaloutly no idea about the workings of the RAF. I'm trying to get an idea tho. I'm glad you pulled my arguments to peices tho thankyou. It just means that I have to strengthen them and then put them to somebody else.

    As for me being what the army looks for in a soldier not an officer we'll just have to see. I know for a fact that I definitly don't want to be an NCO tho.

    PS: Are you in the RAF?

    You said that i made an imature statement.
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    are you in the RAF? I apologise again. That is a really stupid question
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    (Original post by jskarl)
    Wen i refered to the AAC helicopters i wasn't saying that I would be overly bothered if i got first choice in the RAF. It's just I don't rate any of the helicopters the army has.
    You're not collecting magazines as a 10 year old; it's a career you're looking at here. Whether or not you rate the equipment should not be a primary factor really.

    (Original post by jskarl)
    I think your wrong about that not saying much. 3 different lifes cramed into 2 years does say alot about a person. Having the drive to pull yourself up when every day your told your nothing is something, it does show character.
    It does, but it doesn't necessarily compare favourably to a lot of things you could have done with those years. Remember, your interviewers will want to know everything about your education; how're you going to handle explaining your pre-Army school life? You might think it builds character, but how are you going to stack up against some of the exceptional candidates we get through the doors?

    (Original post by jskarl)
    We were told that you get dumped on cateric moore with a pair of overalls, boots (no laces), map and compass and told to find your way to a point. While the SAS chase you.
    That's a slightly apocraphyl story relating to survival training, and it's not quite right. What you should be more interested in is the flying training.

    (Original post by jskarl)
    I'm glad you pulled my arguments to peices tho thankyou. It just means that I have to strengthen them and then put them to somebody else.
    Indeed. I'd caution you against saying that members of the RAF are "better" than the Army, and likewise that officers are fitter than anyone else. It's not that simple. People passed my IOTC with 10 minute 1.5 mile times.

    (Original post by jskarl)
    As for me being what the army looks for in a soldier not an officer we'll just have to see. I know for a fact that I definitly don't want to be an NCO tho.

    PS: Are you in the RAF?
    Yes, as a pilot and an officer, and was a recruiter for a while, so I know what the RAF looks for in its candidates. I hope you take the advice.
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    yeah Wzz is a fast jet pilot.

    he pretty much knows everything about everything to do with becoming a pilot.

    i have been taking notes on basically everything he says in these forums.
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    There' s more than one FJ pilot that posts in here too, as well as other RAF personnel.
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    and some of us know stuff too! :p:
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    Just a curiousity question. Is there anything to say you can't apply to the Navy and the RAF at the same time? Someone I know apparently had 6FS for both but chose the RAF, so can it be done?
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    (Original post by BlackHawk)
    Just a curiousity question. Is there anything to say you can't apply to the Navy and the RAF at the same time? Someone I know apparently had 6FS for both but chose the RAF, so can it be done?
    What does 6FS mean?
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    I remember there was a section on some form I filled in asking "Do you currently have an application in process for any other services?" At the time I had an Army application on the go, but I closed it shortly after I decided to foolishly put all my eggs in the RAF basket

    My point being that it didn't seem to have any adverse effect on my application - though I'm not sure why they'd otherwise want to know.

    I wouldn't think you'd have a problem, but as always AFCO will clear it up.

    - 6FS = Sixth Form Scholarship
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    (Original post by mankyscot2)
    What does 6FS mean?
    Sixth form scholarship
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    (Original post by ThomA2)
    I remember there was a section on some form I filled in asking "Do you currently have an application in process for any other services?" At the time I had an Army application on the go, but I closed it shortly after I decided to foolishly put all my eggs in the RAF basket

    My point being that it didn't seem to have any adverse effect on my application - though I'm not sure why they'd otherwise want to know.
    Do you think it would be looked on in poor light? I'm just currently considering my second options and what is most important, flying or the RAF. Very hard choice. I don't want to wait 6 months to hear back from the RAF and then be left with nothing though.

    Thanks for the reply by the way
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    (Original post by BlackHawk)
    Do you think it would be looked on in poor light? I'm just currently considering my second options and what is most important, flying or the RAF. Very hard choice. I don't want to wait 6 months to hear back from the RAF and then be left with nothing though.

    Thanks for the reply by the way
    I don't think so. It is questionable and perhaps even disconcerting why they want to know, but they want to know a lot of things, so I'm quite sure it wouldn't cause any harm to your application. Surely they'd tell you if it did? There is no rule about not applying for civilian jobs at the same time so why should there be one about other service jobs?

    I met quite a few at OASC in your predicament; to fly or to be in the RAF. I don't mean to sway your decision since it's yours and yours only, but I'm almost certain that those potential pilots that don't make it but stay on nonetheless don't regret it as much as those that head elsewhere.

    I also wonder if being selected for pilot in the Navy is more difficult than in the RAF since there are fewer of them? To (mis)quote Wzz from pages-and-pages ago "If you want to fly why apply to any service other than the air branch?"

    Oh, and don't be silly, I'm still paying my way with regards post usefulness.
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    (Original post by ThomA2)
    I don't think so. It is questionable and perhaps even disconcerting why they want to know, but they want to know a lot of things, so I'm quite sure it wouldn't cause any harm to your application. Surely they'd tell you if it did? There is no rule about not applying for civilian jobs at the same time so why should there be one about other service jobs?

    I met quite a few at OASC in your predicament; to fly or to be in the RAF. I don't mean to sway your decision since it's yours and yours only, but I'm almost certain that those potential pilots that don't make it but stay on nonetheless don't regret it as much as those that head elsewhere.

    I also wonder if being selected for pilot in the Navy is more difficult than in the RAF since there are fewer of them? To (mis)quote Wzz from pages-and-pages ago "If you want to fly why apply to any service other than the air branch?"

    Oh, and don't be silly, I'm still paying my way with regards post usefulness.
    Thats true what Wzz said but I would only go into the Navy if my first option, the RAF, turned me down. That then presents the problem of trying to convince a Naval selection board that I am interested in the Navy but wanted to try the RAF first. I love the idea of the RAF but I need to make the decision as to what is more important. Could I live with myself if I don't go down every avenue to be a military pilot? Now that I've tasted flying I can't not do it. But then I can't exactly knock the Navy before looking into it more. Nor do I want to sniff at other RAF jobs as I would find a couple, such as WSO and FC, very interesting. As far as I am aware, becoming a FJ pilot in the Navy is harder as you have to be the best and there is.

    Basically it's deciding what is more important to me and although I don't plan to have all the answers by OASC I know I need to have a good idea. I want to know everything I can and make an informed decision.
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    Read this a couple of weeks ago, but forgot to post it! :rolleyes:

    Chief of the Royal Air Force, Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup, will be appointed as the new Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS) and will succeed the current CDS, General Sir Michael Walker, in May 2006.

    Air Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy, currently Chief of Joint Operations (CJO), will take over as Chief of the Air Staff when Sir Jock Stirrup becomes CDS. A new CJO will be appointed at a later date.
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    (Original post by BlackHawk)
    and some of us know stuff too! :p:
    Exactly! Most people have something to contribute to the thread. (just thought I'd add that one back in seeing as it got 'lost')
 
 
 
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