mankyscot2
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#4261
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#4261
(Original post by REME-Bod)
... so apart from the schools, the sewers, medicine, law, architecture and art... what have the Romans ever done for us ?!!? :p:
Ha ha, yeah you are right. I just read through my last post and I have pretty much answered my own question. Can anyone think of any other advantages of being an officer over an NCO though?
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KSpin
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#4262
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#4262
Bigger pension?
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puk2184
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#4263
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#4263
(Original post by mankyscot2)
Ha ha, yeah you are right. I just read through my last post and I have pretty much answered my own question. Can anyone think of any other advantages of being an officer over an NCO though?
Won't they also ask if you considered a SNCO position? For SNCO, the starting salary is slightly higher than that of an Officer and you get a lot of responsibility. I'm asking this as they'll probably ask me to highlight the advantages and disadvantages of these too :p:
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KSpin
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#4264
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#4264
You can't go straight into an SNCO position can you? I thought you had to work your way up, if you went in as Enlisted, even Aircrew don't start at SNCO?
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puk2184
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#4265
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#4265
Yep - Sergeant role (pretty sure only in NCA positions though)
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KSpin
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#4266
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#4266
(Original post by puk2184)
Yep - Sergeant role (pretty sure only in NCA positions though)
I thought Sergeant was NCO (with Flight Sergeant the first SNCO rank)... sorry if I'm being nit-picky. :-p
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puk2184
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#4267
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#4267
(Original post by KSpin)
I thought Sergeant was NCO (with Flight Sergeant the first SNCO rank)... sorry if I'm being nit-picky. :-p
Hmm, you're probably right - my brain's turned to mush with lack of sleep and too much work, should know this one really (duh) :rolleyes:
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puk2184
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#4268
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#4268
What is the difference between commissioned and non-commissioned ranks?
In the RAF, the commissioned ranks are Pilot Officer through to Marshal of the Royal Air Force. They are generally referred to as 'officers'. In the RAF, a commissioned officer is a member of the Service who derives authority directly from a sovereign power (i.e. the Monarchy), and as such holds a commission from that power. Any officer (and all non-commissioned ranks) address a senior officer as "Sir" or "Ma'am".

Non-commissioned ranks are split into three groups; airmen (Aircraftsman up to Junior Technician), non-commissioned officers (or NCOs: Corporal to Flight Sergeant) and Warrant Officers. In the British Armed Forces, NCOs are split into two categories - Junior NCOs (abbreviated to JNCOs) are Corporals while Senior NCOs (SNCOs) covers Sergeants to Flight Sergeants
If this is right :rolleyes:
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KSpin
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#4269
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#4269
Fair enough, although personally I would have called Corporals JNCOs, Sergeants NCOs, and Flight Sergeants SNCOs. Although you may aswell just call them by their rank then... hmm... strange. :p:
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REME-Bod
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#4270
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#4270
...commissioned ranks are split into three groups; airmen (Aircraftsman up to Junior Technician), non-commissioned officers (or NCOs: Corporal to Flight Sergeant) and Warrant Officers. In the British Armed Forces, NCOs are split into two categories - Junior NCOs (abbreviated to JNCOs) are Corporals while Senior NCOs (SNCOs) covers Sergeants to Flight Sergeants
All ranks between L/Cpl (Army), Cpl (RAF) and Leading Rate (RN), and Warrant Officer are NCOs. From Sgt (or PO - RN) to WO are SNCOs. The only difference is WOs are addressed as sir/ma'am.

JNCOs have their own mess/club, but live in the soldiers' block
SNCOs have their mess, with accomodation
Officers have their mess, also with accomodation
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djmm
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#4271
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#4271
(Original post by mankyscot2)
Okay, yes I agree. So Officers have better promotion prospects, and can continue to be promoted throughout their entire careers, offering new challenges and more varied work practices. If I want to be a pilot then I have to be an officer, but if I could be a pilot NCO as opposed to a non-flying officer I would choose the former.

What are the actual advantages of being an Officer over an NCO, apart from the wage, the trust and responsibility, the officers mess and the greater promotion possibilities?
You should highlight this, as it shows you are keep to fly, however watch you dont say you wouldnt like to be an officer if you couldnt fly as they may look at this as you looking down upon the workers; just emphasise how keen you are to fly! And that you can and will make a good leader.

It is true about them having better promotion but, NCO's can continue to progress up the ladder too, and can even switch to CO's at a later date, if their papers are raised.

The advantages of being an officer:

Respect from your minors.
The chance to take charge at an early stage in your career/ life, and learn/ enhance your team/ leader skills, though they can be achieved without having a commission, they will be what you are expected of, and you will excell in them, in an early part of your career as mentioned.
Officers, get the cool jobs.
It looks glam.
And, ofcourse, the wage is nice.

Mark
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REME-Bod
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#4272
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#4272
(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
The advantages of being an officer:

Respect from your minors.
The chance to take charge at an early stage in your career/ life, and learn/ enhance your team/ leader skills, though they can be achieved without having a commission, they will be what you are expected of, and you will excell in them, in an early part of your career as mentioned.
Officers, get the cool jobs.
It looks glam.
And, ofcourse, the wage is nice.

Mark
In the interest of keeping a balanced viewpoint...

Respect from your minors.
Respect is earned, not just handed out with a commission. The vast majority of the time it's the person who gains the respect, not the rank.

The chance to take charge at an early stage in your career/ life...
This can be a double edged sword, because with command comes responsibility, and the penalties for screwing up tend to be more severe than for those without the command position.

Officers, get the cool jobs.
Officers tend to sit behind desks, especially as they get more seniority. (I know this is not always the case, but as a rule of thumb there are a lot less officers on the shop floor than in offices).


It looks glam.
So does being a fireman or a rock star ... all a matter of opinion

And, ofcourse, the wage is nice.
AGREED!

This wasn't a deliberate argument against all the points, merely an exercise to prove that with the smooth comes the rough. The job of any officer is hard work, long hours and a fair amount of pressure... but wholly rewarding too. That's why the selection process is there; to ensure that only those who can handle the characteristics of the job actually get through.
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GR4pilot
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#4273
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#4273
There is nowhere else in the country that will train and equipyou better to be a leader and manager than as an officer in the Armed forces or Fast Track manager in the intelligence services, you are put in the position of having to make life and death decisions, sometimes (when at war) on a daily basis, and the type of person you are loves that kind of pressure to work under. Also as an officer you would be hard pressed when you finally hang up your uniform to not know that at some point you made a major difference to or even saved people's lives. Imagine your a C17 Pilot, you know you've dropped 100's of tonnes of essential supplies to the Tsunami effort, Supply Officer, you organised those supplies, IntO you pinpointed the building that a paramilitary wing were using as a HQ and stores and ordered it's destruction thus saving 100's of innocents from booby traps, land mines and persecution from them. I'm sure you could think of one for every branch.
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mankyscot2
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#4274
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#4274
Thank you very much guys, this feedback has been some of the best I have seen on this forum for a random question.
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djmm
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#4275
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#4275
REME-Bod,

I take your point on respect being earned, and I agree. However, the selection for any officer is a lot tougher than that of an airman. I appreciate that some of the airman branches are tough to get in, and you have to do well through the whole selection process, however if there is an officer in that branch then it will be a lot tougher to get in as, weither it is accademically, physically or any other aspect. I feel that they have gained a lot more respect straight off, I agree they must earn it, but by becoming an officer instead of an airman, they have earned a lot, early in their careers. With this comes the added responsibility, and the chance of screwing up, but there is a lot of responsibility in NCO ranks too, with equally as high penalties. Take the aircraft mechanic branches for example, if you are negligence causes the aircraft to have a problem and crash, taking the crew with it, you're in trouble no matter what position you hold.

Yeah, you get a lot of time behind the desk, but think about the time you arent behind the desk; flying a harrier for instance. That is most definately a cool job!

Haha, so they do, but the chicks would pick a fighter pilot before a fireman anyday!

All this is ofcourse not to cause an argument, but to back up what I said above

Mark.
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REME-Bod
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#4276
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#4276
(Original post by djmarkmclachlan)
REME-Bod,

...Take the aircraft mechanic branches for example, if you are negligence causes the aircraft to have a problem and crash, taking the crew with it, you're in trouble no matter what position you hold...
Granted, but who signs that negligent tradesman off as competent? His line manager.

In such a situation, everybody would be in the firing line, but where the tradesman is guilty of neglect and gets busted or thrown out of the job, the officer could be up for corporate manslaughter.


Re your argument about respect - point noted (But that doesn't mean I automatically respect some of the upstart subbies I've come across just because they can use the correct cutlery! )
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djmm
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#4277
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#4277
Haha, perhaps some of them slip through the net And I dont either, however it shows (to a degree) that they are motivated in their career, and worked harder to gain the qualifications to get there, or they were smarter.

Im not 100 per cent on the LineO's role on this. But Im sure after the L/ AEM/AEA/AET (for reference to the RN) signs the 100C, it his head that is on the chopping board. And it would be his neglect that would be at fault, the LineO can only take his word for it being done properly, if he was suspicious of the work then he would be able to check. Im not too sure on the EngO's role here though.
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mankyscot2
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#4278
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#4278
So tonight I was at ATC as usual (I'm a Civilian Instructor, not a cadet), and it was the Annual Inspection. Now I wasn't at all bothered about this, and I was lapping it up, I love ATC, but that is a different matter.

Anyway, I was minding my own business, chatting to the CO and Warrant Officer when the Wing Commander arrives. We all get introduced and in a very spooky way, when I got introduced to the Wing Commander, I realise that I have met him before and he has the same feeling, but we couldn't place it. For about 30 seconds he was stood there shaking my hand stumped at where he has seen me before. Very wierd experience, but this isn't the reason for my post. We never did work out where we knew each other from but I have an incline that he was either on a Camp with me or he has taken me on an AEF (Air Experience Flight) when I was much younger.

Okay, the real reason for my post is this...me and the Wing Commander get chatting and I tell him about my application and how it is coming along, and he wishes me luck with it and gives me a pat on the back and tells me that the two key things are perseverance and knowing about the RAF.

Now, I am feeling pretty confident about my interview next Tuesday but this last thing that he said to me about knowing about the RAF got me thinking. Exactly how much do I know about the RAF, and how would I answer this question in an interview?

Obviously, I know when it was formed, and what from. I know it played a very important part in both World Wars and during peacetime. I know it plays a vital role in the defence of the UK, our Allies and promoting our governments interests overseas. But is this what the interviewer would be looking for?

Can anyone think of a better answer to the question: What is the RAF?
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djmm
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#4279
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#4279
Well, if they ask 'What is the RAF' Dont get into a long winded discussion about when it was formed, Simply say what it is. And that is, a part of the MoD. The Air bracket of the countries defence. I know you'll want to show him how much you know, but remember to answer what he asks you, and dont let your saying something put you off your train of thought, if he asks you something, answer it, confidently and precisely (sure I spelled that wrong, but meh.). Good luck mate, got my fingers crossed for ya .

Mark.
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mankyscot2
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#4280
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#4280
Yeah i'm not too worried about it, i've been there and learned from my experience. I just hope my current affairs is better, which I sincerely think it is. I have also learnt all about NATO, EDF, tri-service activities, and I have prepared proper answers for questions such as: What is an Officer? What are the roles of the RAF? Why do you think you would make a good Officer?
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