The Student Room Group

Should I make a grieveance against Sainsbury's?

Well it's been a rollercoaster ride and a half over the past month now working for Sainsbury's and I'm very, very disappointed with what I am on the receiving end of here.

To put it simply, from the moment I hit "submit" on an online application form of the Sainsbury's Careers site in August 08 after desperately scurrying around for part time work and having been rejected by McDonald's for being too young, to being interviewed late September and messed around at the beginning of October by HR at the branch and HRSS, to THIS.

I went on holiday to Australia over Christmas/New Year (basically 17th Dec to 7th Jan) and when I got home I found a letter addressed to me. I was unsure what it was and it had the name handwritten on it (odd for something coming from such a big company surely?) and when I opened and read it... it basically read that my temporary contract had ended and I had to return my uniform and locker key at the end of the day on Saturday 10th January.

The problems with this letter being:
1) I was employed with and SIGNED a PERMANENT contract
2) I was not scheduled to return to work until the 17th
3) [this doesn't matter but...] I don't even have a locker key
4) I have never been provided with any of the uniform I requested in October and have been "warned" about my dress code several times by my boss

I called and spoke to the HR manager who wrote the letter, who said she'd sent it to all the temp's... and sadly I'd just been mixed up with the lot of them. So I got to keep my job!

Here I am, still employed by Sainsbury's... hooray!

Anyway, I went back for my first shift on 16th in the end (swapped with a colleague for a bit) and on that first night, I was given grief by my boss's boss basically. Whatever happens, I know that I hadn't done anything wrong and we had a bit of a verbal battle away from the shop floor. This never caught on with my boss until I told her the next day when she decided it was time for my Week 8 review!

I think that I should NOT have had a review on my FIRST WEEK BACK from holiday. Unfortunately, because of the verbal bashing I got from her boss the night before, it didn't go so well.

Anyway, last night, when I should have got my payslip - it wasn't there. Instead, it arrived this morning accompanied by a P45 stating that I had left on January 10th 2009 and as a result of that, my payslip also read a big fat 0.00 in the NET Pay column!

Rumour has it that they overstaffed over Christmas, and tried to get rid of all the temps plus a few permanent employees and I believe what I feel was a verbal attack by my boss's boss was very unfair and on my first day back. And considering I hadn't done anything...

I'm being heavily taxed. They did not even know until just before Christmas that I was a student, despite me declaring this on my application. I haven't been given, or instructed on where to get a tax rebate form, despite asking in HR.

Another thing they have ignored as well is my learning difficulty (it doesn't help me much with the checkout work!) and a bit of a problematic knee/back and wrist (at times). This is despite me trying to explain this at my reviews, trying to show them letters from doctors and so on and even my parents speaking to HR! They received no acknowledgement for that, neither did I.

Finally, in October we were all told to fill in uniform orders at induction. I did so. All I got was a polo shirt, because they had a spare, and obviously my name badge. Since then, despite me going after them about it, they always have a different excuse.

So today, I know I'm going to work a bit earlier... and I'm taking the letter from last month, a copy of my contract, and my payslip/P45 form that I got this morning and I promise that heads WILL roll. I've been heavily taxed to the point I've lost (including the 3 weeks wages) in excess of £350 so far since October. I'm also going to really pick one with them about the uniform (it's so cold at the moment I'd love that fleece...)

I'm just pointing out here the fact that I have applied for a new job elsewhere and have an interview for it on Friday. If I get it, I will absolutely be leaving Sainsbury's behind for good. Not cos of my colleagues, but because of the way that HR there handle everything and the general workings of the company as a whole.

LONG-WINDED, I KNOW! I feel like me going and talking to them isn't going to be enough and that I've had enough bull off them for 3 months that I don't want to go to work anymore and that I would, if possible and reasonable, go as far as making a grievance against them.

Does anybody else think that if I get to the point where I'm in a position to leave (God willing I get a new job somewhere), I should make a grievance against them?

Are they even allowed to send a letter like I previously mentioned to people like me, knowing that it's contradictory to my contract?

Crazy!! Thoughts and opinions all-round will be much appreciated.

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Reply 1
Bastards...
Reply 2
i didnt read it but you seem pretty angry - bastards!
Reply 3
Hold on, have i seen this thread before?
Reply 4
By grievance, do you mean an internal grievance against the store management? That should be acceptable, you should phone your head office. However, if you mean any sort of legal action then you are not going to have much luck. The threshold for having the ability to take most legal action against an employer is 12 months continuous employment.
Have you asked other new starters if they had similar experiences to you?
Reply 6
Sounds like a catalogue of muck ups unfortunately. I wouldn't of been happy either!
I expect most stores took on too many for xmas. But its weird, its not like they need to be devious & advertise for permanant staff when they only want temps because there are loads of students wanting temp jobs at xmas.
When I started at Sainsburys in november, they had put my contract as temporary. Thank god I got them to change it, because I could of been in the same boat as you.
I dont think you can do anything legally, at the end of the day you hadn't been there long enough. Anytime up to a year or maybe even 2, they can let you go at the drop of a hat anyway as far as I know. The uniform issue is annoying. We had to put down what sizes & what we wanted, but we never got those, we had to go to the uniform cupboard with a woman & she handed us what they had in there. So I dont get what the form is all about that they get you to fill in at inductions & interviews. Some people had to wait weeks for their uniforms at our place.
Sounds like you got treated quite badly though. I hope you get some joy at the interview friday. Fingers crossed for you x
Reply 7
Spazzycazzy
Sounds like a catalogue of muck ups unfortunately. I wouldn't of been happy either!
I expect most stores took on too many for xmas. But its weird, its not like they need to be devious & advertise for permanant staff when they only want temps because there are loads of students wanting temp jobs at xmas.
When I started at Sainsburys in november, they had put my contract as temporary. Thank god I got them to change it, because I could of been in the same boat as you.
I dont think you can do anything legally, at the end of the day you hadn't been there long enough. Anytime up to a year or maybe even 2, they can let you go at the drop of a hat anyway as far as I know. The uniform issue is annoying. We had to put down what sizes & what we wanted, but we never got those, we had to go to the uniform cupboard with a woman & she handed us what they had in there. So I dont get what the form is all about that they get you to fill in at inductions & interviews. Some people had to wait weeks for their uniforms at our place.
Sounds like you got treated quite badly though. I hope you get some joy at the interview friday. Fingers crossed for you x


Not quite. Most companies (especially huge corporations such as Sainsbury) have disciplinary procedures which must be abided by and usually constitute a term in the contract. Even if these procedures are not outlined in the contract, the court may imply them due to the fact of their usage throughout most industries. Usually the warnings/disciplinary system comprises of:

Verbal warning
Written warning
Final written warning
Dismissal

So they would have to go through quite a heavy procedural process to sack someone. Unless it was for gross misconduct, but that is usually for exceptional things such as theft or violence.

It's 12 months continuous employment; however, you probably could still attempt to make a claim (but it would be more risky) and there are still employment laws which are not within the 12 month threshold such as when you are discriminated against due to race, gender, disability etc.
Reply 8
Asteron
Not quite. Most companies (especially huge corporations such as Sainsbury) have disciplinary procedures which must be abided by and usually constitute a term in the contract. Even if these procedures are not outlined in the contract, the court may imply them due to the fact of their usage throughout most industries. Usually the warnings/disciplinary system comprises of:

Verbal warning
Written warning
Final written warning
Dismissal

So they would have to go through quite a heavy procedural process to sack someone. Unless it was for gross misconduct, but that is usually for exceptional things such as theft or violence.

It's 12 months continuous employment; however, you probably could still attempt to make a claim (but it would be more risky) and there are still employment laws which are not within the 12 month threshold such as when you are discriminated against due to race, gender, disability etc.


Really? I started there in november, & we were all reassured in a letter from the new manager this week, that we are doing well, even though some other companies have sunk, but even so, say for instance they wanted to get rid of some staff due to the recession, they couldn't just let us go then even though we have only been there a couple of months?
I will relax a bit more knowing that, if thats the case x
I worked for Sainsbury's for a while last year, and although everyone was perfectly nice and I did manage to earn a fair bit for doing virtually nothing, the rest of it was pretty awful - I received next to no training, was left to work on my own a lot, and basically had no idea what I was doing for about 6 months. So yeah, seems like they're not so hot at the HR stuff. Good luck with your situation, I hope it works out.
I went to an interview with them; passed the test with flying colours ( I know), was smart in appearance... then told them two things: That I would like some time off in Aug (Although they asked me would I need any holidays up til July, but I mentioned Aug because I am honest) and also, that I would probably go pt if I went back to Uni.
Apparently I was rejected for the job. I know it was because of my honesty about the PT and the Aug hols, because the guy who was co-ordinating it all was pretty slow and I could do his job I bet.
Reply 11
Spazzycazzy
Really? I started there in november, & we were all reassured in a letter from the new manager this week, that we are doing well, even though some other companies have sunk, but even so, say for instance they wanted to get rid of some staff due to the recession, they couldn't just let us go then even though we have only been there a couple of months?
I will relax a bit more knowing that, if thats the case x


There is a difference between general sacking and redundancy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layoff
Your tax situation has NOTHING to do with J Sainsbury. Take it up with HMRC.


I think that I should NOT have had a review on my FIRST WEEK BACK from holiday


Sounds to me very clear what is happening here. In your first 12 weeks you can be got rid of for pretty much any reason. After that 12 week period things start to get difficult. However, so you can't complain that you have been got rid of for no reason reviews are an important paper document to describe clear performance issues, meaning that if you were laid off and you complained, they could simply point out that you failed to achieve the goals set for you in your performance review.

Having an argument with your trading manager probably didn't help matters.

I may be totally wrong here but it sounds to me like they didn't like the fact you were off during the busiest period of the year [Christmas] and that your performance has been poor, and that they want to get rid of you any way they can. I'd seriously consider handing in my resignation because it's clear neither the company nor yourself is happy with the current situation.
Ubiquitous
Your tax situation has NOTHING to do with J Sainsbury. Take it up with HMRC.

Sounds to me very clear what is happening here. In your first 12 weeks you can be got rid of for pretty much any reason. After that 12 week period things start to get difficult. However, so you can't complain that you have been got rid of for no reason reviews are an important paper document to describe clear performance issues, meaning that if you were laid off and you complained, they could simply point out that you failed to achieve the goals set for you in your performance review.

Having an argument with your trading manager probably didn't help matters.

I may be totally wrong here but it sounds to me like they didn't like the fact you were off during the busiest period of the year [Christmas] and that your performance has been poor, and that they want to get rid of you any way they can. I'd seriously consider handing in my resignation because it's clear neither the company nor yourself is happy with the current situation.


THIS.

The tax situation is by no means unique to you - I think you'll find that most students (as part time workers earning less than the current tax threshold) end up being put onto an 'emergency code' which automatically deducts tax at the standard rate. Had you been employed before, it would have been your responsibility to give your previous P45 to your employer as soon as your contract began. Even when I've handed in P45s/P46s, it takes a while for HR to process it and send the correct information to the tax office, so the first payslip or two usually ends up being emergency taxed. In fact, I was owed £1200 by HMRC from three jobs over two years, where I was emergency taxed for the first few payslips - you can either try to claim back the tax now and have Sainsbury's include it in a future payslip, or you can wait til the end of the tax year (April) and do it yourself, working from your P60. It isn't really Sainsbury's responsibility as it doesn't affect them directly, so I wouldn't mention that in a possible letter of grievance.

If you really are desperately unhappy with how you've been treated, rather than open up the grievance procedure I'd probably resign and look for a job elsewhere. If you've already had a falling-out with your manager then you could be in a sticky situation, and opening a grievance procedure wouldn't exactly help this. You don't want them to open up a disciplinary procedure RE your performance in retaliation, which would leave you really stuck in finding a new job. If you resign, then at least you'd get an unblemished reference and be able to forget about Sainsbury's entirely. Grievance and Disciplinary procedures can go on for months...
Reply 14
Well thank you for all the pointers...

However, I'd like to back a few things up (unfortunately, I was in a rush when I wrote the long-winded post yesterday!) so I'd like to clarify a few things (I'm not doing this to have a stab at anyone's comments, I totally see why they've been made and notice the way I worded a couple of bits could easily provoke those responses!)

When I mention the 'verbal war' with the trading manager, I mean that I was trying to prove my point and I did not feel that I was being allowed to tell my side of the story. All it was, was over some customer who complained because a bottle fell off the belt when I put an item through. Unfortunately it happened to be a glass bottle so it broke. She claimed that I had made "no effort" to help her! I know that I did EVERYTHING you should do when there's a broken glass/spillage! Apologise, call for a supervisor, get them to get a cleaner to your checkout etc. The trading manager wasn't having any of it. I was told it wouldn't lead to any discipliniary things in the end, because it was clearly an accident and it happens all the time (bottles are always smashing!)

With the tax... I know they shouldn't have to organise it for me, but I had no idea that it was just going to happen. And we weren't actually informed that if we were students that we would have to fill in/collect any forms to rectify that and I will of course be in touch with HMRC on that one, as instructed to do so.

They have definitely not taken into account my learning difficulty this whole time and I feel they've used this against me in my reviews.

Also, I think it's actually the Checkouts Manager who happens to be the one in the wrong (if anyone) because it sounds like she picks apart everyone. My direct boss is the Customer Service Manager. She seems to be a good person and she generally says nice things about me and is supportive of me. The checkouts manager, takes a lot against people! Even just being late once by 5 minutes gets you a slating at reviews and all the time in fact (one of my Colleagues was!)

Yesterday, once I explained to them the situation with the whole tax/payslip thing, they reluctantly gave me a jumper too and so on and told me what to do.

We'll see what happens from here. Fingers tightly crossed for Friday!
Lukely
Well thank you for all the pointers...

However, I'd like to back a few things up (unfortunately, I was in a rush when I wrote the long-winded post yesterday!) so I'd like to clarify a few things (I'm not doing this to have a stab at anyone's comments, I totally see why they've been made and notice the way I worded a couple of bits could easily provoke those responses!)

When I mention the 'verbal war' with the trading manager, I mean that I was trying to prove my point and I did not feel that I was being allowed to tell my side of the story. All it was, was over some customer who complained because a bottle fell off the belt when I put an item through. Unfortunately it happened to be a glass bottle so it broke. She claimed that I had made "no effort" to help her! I know that I did EVERYTHING you should do when there's a broken glass/spillage! Apologise, call for a supervisor, get them to get a cleaner to your checkout etc. The trading manager wasn't having any of it. I was told it wouldn't lead to any discipliniary things in the end, because it was clearly an accident and it happens all the time (bottles are always smashing!)

With the tax... I know they shouldn't have to organise it for me, but I had no idea that it was just going to happen. And we weren't actually informed that if we were students that we would have to fill in/collect any forms to rectify that and I will of course be in touch with HMRC on that one, as instructed to do so.

They have definitely not taken into account my learning difficulty this whole time and I feel they've used this against me in my reviews.

Also, I think it's actually the Checkouts Manager who happens to be the one in the wrong (if anyone) because it sounds like she picks apart everyone. My direct boss is the Customer Service Manager. She seems to be a good person and she generally says nice things about me and is supportive of me. The checkouts manager, takes a lot against people! Even just being late once by 5 minutes gets you a slating at reviews and all the time in fact (one of my Colleagues was!)

Yesterday, once I explained to them the situation with the whole tax/payslip thing, they reluctantly gave me a jumper too and so on and told me what to do.

We'll see what happens from here. Fingers tightly crossed for Friday!
It sounds like you hate the job and the management, and for the sake of a few quid per hour I would quit and get an other job in a place more suited to your personal circumstances.
Reply 16
Lukely
Well thank you for all the pointers...

However, I'd like to back a few things up (unfortunately, I was in a rush when I wrote the long-winded post yesterday!) so I'd like to clarify a few things (I'm not doing this to have a stab at anyone's comments, I totally see why they've been made and notice the way I worded a couple of bits could easily provoke those responses!)

When I mention the 'verbal war' with the trading manager, I mean that I was trying to prove my point and I did not feel that I was being allowed to tell my side of the story. All it was, was over some customer who complained because a bottle fell off the belt when I put an item through. Unfortunately it happened to be a glass bottle so it broke. She claimed that I had made "no effort" to help her! I know that I did EVERYTHING you should do when there's a broken glass/spillage! Apologise, call for a supervisor, get them to get a cleaner to your checkout etc. The trading manager wasn't having any of it. I was told it wouldn't lead to any discipliniary things in the end, because it was clearly an accident and it happens all the time (bottles are always smashing!)

With the tax... I know they shouldn't have to organise it for me, but I had no idea that it was just going to happen. And we weren't actually informed that if we were students that we would have to fill in/collect any forms to rectify that and I will of course be in touch with HMRC on that one, as instructed to do so.

They have definitely not taken into account my learning difficulty this whole time and I feel they've used this against me in my reviews.

Also, I think it's actually the Checkouts Manager who happens to be the one in the wrong (if anyone) because it sounds like she picks apart everyone. My direct boss is the Customer Service Manager. She seems to be a good person and she generally says nice things about me and is supportive of me. The checkouts manager, takes a lot against people! Even just being late once by 5 minutes gets you a slating at reviews and all the time in fact (one of my Colleagues was!)

Yesterday, once I explained to them the situation with the whole tax/payslip thing, they reluctantly gave me a jumper too and so on and told me what to do.

We'll see what happens from here. Fingers tightly crossed for Friday!


Being a student doesn't have anything to do with it.

Are you sure they are using that against you? Or have you just not been performing well?
Reply 17
Oh I'm not saying they're using the fact I'm a student against me... it's more a well, confidence issue. They've told me time and time again to just 'get out of it'.

Literally, I was told by the checkouts manager, to "change my personality or it's not going to work"

I am who I am. They know about my personality traits and learning difficulties, they can't just expect me to change overnight, surely?!

This is one reason I've applied to the O2 Store. I prefer to approach others, rather than be approached every 3 minutes by someone completely new when half of them don't want your help anyway, they just want you to scan...place...cash...nectar...done! Basically.

People in the College I go to have told me that on the last open evenings we held, I demonstrated some kind of talent for being able to approach people, offer them assistance and explain all the different IT courses available (we have 5...in detail) and my personal tutor suggested that I'd try something like working for a retail store such as O2 selling products in that way, rather than something like Sainsbury's. It sounds kinda silly, but hey at the end of the day we're all different right?!
Lukely
Oh I'm not saying they're using the fact I'm a student against me... it's more a well, confidence issue. They've told me time and time again to just 'get out of it'.

Literally, I was told by the checkouts manager, to "change my personality or it's not going to work"

I am who I am. They know about my personality traits and learning difficulties, they can't just expect me to change overnight, surely?!

This is one reason I've applied to the O2 Store. I prefer to approach others, rather than be approached every 3 minutes by someone completely new when half of them don't want your help anyway, they just want you to scan...place...cash...nectar...done! Basically.

People in the College I go to have told me that on the last open evenings we held, I demonstrated some kind of talent for being able to approach people, offer them assistance and explain all the different IT courses available (we have 5...in detail) and my personal tutor suggested that I'd try something like working for a retail store such as O2 selling products in that way, rather than something like Sainsbury's. It sounds kinda silly, but hey at the end of the day we're all different right?!


Yes thats right. Maybe if you're that good at selling, commission based selling could be right up your street too!
At the end of the day not everyone is suited to working in certain places, thats why we have interviews & the manager should pick up on that at that time too. But obviously these things happen.
Good luck x
Reply 19
Thanks.

I think, that, after considering all that people have said here and thinking about it and taking it all in, the best way forward may be:

- Explain the situation to my personal tutor in College, and my parents to let 'em know what exactly is going on and explain what I plan to do about it
- Write a letter of resignation
- Talk to my boss on Friday, asking her what she thinks: does she think that I've progressed significantly or not in the past 2 weeks since that review (making it clear that I'm not asking her to give me a review!)
- Decide what to do with the letter based on her answers

Does that sound like a reasonable attitude and response to the situation? I'll keep on it and go for the interview on Friday (keeping my mobile on the Outdoors loud profile obviously!) and running away from College for half an hour when it goes!! And just praying for a miracle to get me through that interview with the result that I would like!! :biggrin:

Final comments and suggestions are welcome now!!