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unregistered1
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Are "permanent revolution" and "socialism in one country" addressed at all in Animal Farm? How?
Also, what is the real name of Boxer (the working hero)? Stakonhovitsj or something like that, but how do you spell it?
Also, what is the real name of Boxer (the working hero)? Stakonhovitsj or something like that, but how do you spell it?
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theone
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(Original post by unregistered1)
Are "permanent revolution" and "socialism in one country" addressed at all in Animal Farm? How?
Are "permanent revolution" and "socialism in one country" addressed at all in Animal Farm? How?
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unregistered1
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unregistered1
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Yes i have read it, but I can't finf out exactly where they went from permanent revolution to socialism in one country in the book. Seems to me that they had socialism in one country as their policy from the begining.
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theone
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(Original post by unregistered1)
Yes i have read it, but I can't finf out exactly where they went from permanent revolution to socialism in one country in the book. Seems to me that they had socialism in one country as their policy from the begining.
Yes i have read it, but I can't finf out exactly where they went from permanent revolution to socialism in one country in the book. Seems to me that they had socialism in one country as their policy from the begining.
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Juwel
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(Original post by unregistered1)
Are "permanent revolution" and "socialism in one country" addressed at all in Animal Farm? How?
Also, what is the real name of Boxer (the working hero)? Stakonhovitsj or something like that, but how do you spell it?
Are "permanent revolution" and "socialism in one country" addressed at all in Animal Farm? How?
Also, what is the real name of Boxer (the working hero)? Stakonhovitsj or something like that, but how do you spell it?
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Unregistered1
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(Original post by ZJuwelH)
Boxer represents the Russian working class, eager to support the regime in all it does with his hard work, yet too stupid to form his own mind. He is named after the Communist Boxer Revolution (or Rebellion, I forget) in China.
Boxer represents the Russian working class, eager to support the regime in all it does with his hard work, yet too stupid to form his own mind. He is named after the Communist Boxer Revolution (or Rebellion, I forget) in China.
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Unregistered1
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(Original post by theone)
The whole point of the revolution was to create a socialist nation, as you say.
The whole point of the revolution was to create a socialist nation, as you say.
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Linda
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(Original post by Unregistered1)
Um, well in the beginning they have all this laws written down on the barn (all animals are equal and so on), but then later they change everything (all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others and so on). This is representative for the Marxist-Stalinist shif, right? And according to Marx (and Lenin) there should be a permaent revolution internationally (from which the Third International was founded), but then Stalin launched his "socialism in one country" and you got national-socialism. My question is if this shift is represented in the book or if they just had socialism in one country (or farm, hehe) from the beginning.
Um, well in the beginning they have all this laws written down on the barn (all animals are equal and so on), but then later they change everything (all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others and so on). This is representative for the Marxist-Stalinist shif, right? And according to Marx (and Lenin) there should be a permaent revolution internationally (from which the Third International was founded), but then Stalin launched his "socialism in one country" and you got national-socialism. My question is if this shift is represented in the book or if they just had socialism in one country (or farm, hehe) from the beginning.
which farm is supposed to represent Norway?
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hildabeast
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(Original post by theone)
The whole point of the revolution was to create a socialist nation, as you say.
The whole point of the revolution was to create a socialist nation, as you say.
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Linda
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(Original post by hildabeast)
That's incorrect. I can't remember 'Animal Farm' because its ages since I read it, but if you're speaking about it as an allegory of the Russian Revolution, to say 'socialism in one country' doesn't make sense in Marxist terms. It was never Lenin's intention for revolution to only occur in one country as, by the definition of the time, true socialism must take place all over the industrialised world. It certainly was not Leninist or Trotskyist policy in 1917 for socialism to be confined to Russia, and they were even relying upon revolution in Germany in order that their plans for a socialist Europe would be possible. As it happened, the 1918 treaty of Brest-Litovsk was the final nail in the coffin for socialist Russia as it virtually ruled out the possibility of revolution in Germany. That's my opinion anyway.
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That's incorrect. I can't remember 'Animal Farm' because its ages since I read it, but if you're speaking about it as an allegory of the Russian Revolution, to say 'socialism in one country' doesn't make sense in Marxist terms. It was never Lenin's intention for revolution to only occur in one country as, by the definition of the time, true socialism must take place all over the industrialised world. It certainly was not Leninist or Trotskyist policy in 1917 for socialism to be confined to Russia, and they were even relying upon revolution in Germany in order that their plans for a socialist Europe would be possible. As it happened, the 1918 treaty of Brest-Litovsk was the final nail in the coffin for socialist Russia as it virtually ruled out the possibility of revolution in Germany. That's my opinion anyway.
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Hence, the OP was talking about the shift from Marxism (international permanet revolution) to Stalinism (actually it was Bukharov who came up with the concept though), and the policy of socialism in one country. And Animal Farm is not just about the Revolution(s) of 1917, but also about the power struggle, industrialization and collectivisation/5 year plans, army, purges etc. Snowball/Trotsky was exhiled and that's when they officialy changed (remember the pigs sitting in the house, drinking, forgotten everything about their initial dreams of animals taking over the farms everywhere).
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Tina
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(Original post by Tina)
animal farm was a fantastic book ....so is 1984
animal farm was a fantastic book ....so is 1984
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Linda
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(Original post by Linda)
Brave New World is better than any Orwell book IMO.
Brave New World is better than any Orwell book IMO.
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Firstly there was never a Marxist-Stalinist shift. Leninist-Marxism was very different to the theories Marx expounded. Marx never offered very little in terms of how a Communist state would actually be insurrected and what it would end up being like.
Though hildabeast or whoever was right in saying that it makes no sense to talk about national socialism as a Marxist concept - Animal Farm tells us about the flawed nature of Leninist-Marxism as an ideology and its tenedencies to result in totalitarian regime. Thus it addresses the subject of the permenant revolution some what indirectly. That ultiamtely the utopian ideals, of the farm animals could never be realised or put in place by a minority elite (the Bolsheviks or pigs), the ideology became self-serving and ultimately corrupt. No real egalitarian state, no permeant revolution, the imporatnce of these things in the book is the fact they never materialize.
Though hildabeast or whoever was right in saying that it makes no sense to talk about national socialism as a Marxist concept - Animal Farm tells us about the flawed nature of Leninist-Marxism as an ideology and its tenedencies to result in totalitarian regime. Thus it addresses the subject of the permenant revolution some what indirectly. That ultiamtely the utopian ideals, of the farm animals could never be realised or put in place by a minority elite (the Bolsheviks or pigs), the ideology became self-serving and ultimately corrupt. No real egalitarian state, no permeant revolution, the imporatnce of these things in the book is the fact they never materialize.
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