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#41
(Original post by Albion)
I'd have thought that was because the people who died in a war such as world war two gave their lives for such an important cause. They didn't just shrug when it became obvious Hitler was intent on gaining lands by force, they decided they were not going to let such an arrogant and power mad fool implement his racist and right wing ideas on other countries. Our grandparents generation were not going to stand for it, they were prepared to fight and die to stop him and sadly in thousands of cases thats what it took but they did stop him.
I don't suppose people are proud that they did actually die, but that they were prepared to die to stop someone like Hitler and his ideas from ruining and destroying so many lives. I feel proud that so many British men and women didn't just turn a blind eye but did indeed fight to stop him.
I'd have thought that was because the people who died in a war such as world war two gave their lives for such an important cause. They didn't just shrug when it became obvious Hitler was intent on gaining lands by force, they decided they were not going to let such an arrogant and power mad fool implement his racist and right wing ideas on other countries. Our grandparents generation were not going to stand for it, they were prepared to fight and die to stop him and sadly in thousands of cases thats what it took but they did stop him.
I don't suppose people are proud that they did actually die, but that they were prepared to die to stop someone like Hitler and his ideas from ruining and destroying so many lives. I feel proud that so many British men and women didn't just turn a blind eye but did indeed fight to stop him.
im almost ashamed reading the comments here, that question the meaning of such a day.
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#42
(Original post by vienna95)
at last, someone with abit of sense or should i say respect.
im almost ashamed reading the comments here, that question the meaning of such a day.
at last, someone with abit of sense or should i say respect.
im almost ashamed reading the comments here, that question the meaning of such a day.
Surley you can see why people with anti-war views would oppose such a day
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#43
Although we should respect the dead I dont think we should have rememberance day to remember these people because they died at war because the fact is between them they killed tons of ppl and killing another human under any curcumstance is wrong!
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#44
(Original post by Elle)
I hope you did read through them and not just skimmed through because I don't want to go through the arguments that backup our views again..
Surley you can see why people with anti-war views would oppose such a day
I hope you did read through them and not just skimmed through because I don't want to go through the arguments that backup our views again..
Surley you can see why people with anti-war views would oppose such a day
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#45
(Original post by jstringer)
Although we should respect the dead I dont think we should have rememberance day to remember these people because they died at war because the fact is between them they killed tons of ppl and killing another human under any curcumstance is wrong!
Although we should respect the dead I dont think we should have rememberance day to remember these people because they died at war because the fact is between them they killed tons of ppl and killing another human under any curcumstance is wrong!
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#46
(Original post by vienna95)
no, i cant.
no, i cant.
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#47
(Original post by Elle)
Then theres no point in me explaining if you determined to be so narrow minded
Then theres no point in me explaining if you determined to be so narrow minded
people in glasshouses....
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#48
(Original post by vienna95)
so i dont agree and thats "determined to be narrow-minded"?
people in glasshouses....
so i dont agree and thats "determined to be narrow-minded"?
people in glasshouses....
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#49
(Original post by Elle)
No what I'm saying is that you fail to acknowledge there is an counter argument to what your saying. You don't have to agree with it.. but its not as if our views are so ridiculous that you can just dismiss them.
No what I'm saying is that you fail to acknowledge there is an counter argument to what your saying. You don't have to agree with it.. but its not as if our views are so ridiculous that you can just dismiss them.
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#50
(Original post by vienna95)
truly shocking.
truly shocking.
Remeberence day isn't about remembering how righteous wars have been - it's about remember all the suffering and pain has been caused by war - regardless of how justified the war was and whether you agree with the reasons behind it.
I think the reasons for the Iraq war were dubious but that doesn't mean I don't sympathise for all the wounded and relatives of those who've died - British, American and Iraqi. War causes grief to all those involved.
Rememberance day isn't a conscience easer for the government - it's about the people of this country recognising the motives behind it's army, navy and airforce personnel and respecting those who have died and suffered in the name of others. It's about the public respecting that at any time we might be asking our armed forces to lay their lives on the line in our defence and showing respect and gratitude to the people willing to do that.
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#51
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
I agree
Remeberence day isn't about remembering how righteous wars have been - it's about remember all the suffering and pain has been caused by war - regardless of how justified the war was and whether you agree with the reasons behind it.
I think the reasons for the Iraq war were dubious but that doesn't mean I don't sympathise for all the wounded and relatives of those who've died - British, American and Iraqi. War causes grief to all those involved.
Rememberance day isn't a conscience easer for the government - it's about the people of this country recognising the motives behind it's army, navy and airforce personnel and respecting those who have died and suffered in the name of others. It's about the public respecting that at any time we might be asking our armed forces to lay their lives on the line in our defence and showing respect and gratitude to the people willing to do that.
I agree
Remeberence day isn't about remembering how righteous wars have been - it's about remember all the suffering and pain has been caused by war - regardless of how justified the war was and whether you agree with the reasons behind it.
I think the reasons for the Iraq war were dubious but that doesn't mean I don't sympathise for all the wounded and relatives of those who've died - British, American and Iraqi. War causes grief to all those involved.
Rememberance day isn't a conscience easer for the government - it's about the people of this country recognising the motives behind it's army, navy and airforce personnel and respecting those who have died and suffered in the name of others. It's about the public respecting that at any time we might be asking our armed forces to lay their lives on the line in our defence and showing respect and gratitude to the people willing to do that.
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#52
Although I don't go to church at all on Remeberance Sunday, I always buy a poppy (although I haven't this year - I've not been anywhere recently where I've seen people selling them). I also always make sure I observe my 2 minute silence at 11am on the eleventh, I think its disrespectful not to, no matter where you are, not to give up 2 minutes just to think about those who were called up for service and died for their (and your) country.
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#53
(Original post by edders)
i have mixed feelings about remembrance sunday... on the one hand its good to show respect for the war dead, on the other it seems like the establishment is using one day of solemnity to make it alright to kill people on all the other days of the year.
i have mixed feelings about remembrance sunday... on the one hand its good to show respect for the war dead, on the other it seems like the establishment is using one day of solemnity to make it alright to kill people on all the other days of the year.
Americans would be wise to follow suit and have something very loud and auspicious (in true yanks style) to remember all those killed in the world wars, Korean wars, Vietnam...and soon to be the war for Iraq. Maybe then they'd think twice before commiting soldiers to an act which there's no backing out of
J
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#54
Incidently I had trouble finding a poppy this year - they weren't available in the uni or in the student union...not a good sign.
Ended up buying one on Sat morning from someone stood outside B&Q (pretty random but I suppose more people visit B&Q on a saturday than almost anywhere else)
My other half refuses to buy one because he doesn't agree with charity of any sort (mainly because he's a tight bugger and likes to justify himself). And I have to say I sympathise with him in some ways - especially when there are people incredibly remotely connected to the services who recieve state of the art wheelchairs when he has to fork out £2k from his own pocket every few yrs (this is the RAF charity fund rather than the poppy fund - and I don't resent service people and their immediate families benefitting from this money...but it seems like the criteria for benefitting are becoming more and more arbitrary)
Ended up buying one on Sat morning from someone stood outside B&Q (pretty random but I suppose more people visit B&Q on a saturday than almost anywhere else)
My other half refuses to buy one because he doesn't agree with charity of any sort (mainly because he's a tight bugger and likes to justify himself). And I have to say I sympathise with him in some ways - especially when there are people incredibly remotely connected to the services who recieve state of the art wheelchairs when he has to fork out £2k from his own pocket every few yrs (this is the RAF charity fund rather than the poppy fund - and I don't resent service people and their immediate families benefitting from this money...but it seems like the criteria for benefitting are becoming more and more arbitrary)
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#55
(Original post by jstringer)
Although we should respect the dead I dont think we should have rememberance day to remember these people because they died at war because the fact is between them they killed tons of ppl and killing another human under any curcumstance is wrong!
Although we should respect the dead I dont think we should have rememberance day to remember these people because they died at war because the fact is between them they killed tons of ppl and killing another human under any curcumstance is wrong!
You have to recall that the real *******s of the world wars never did die in battle. It was the aristocracy in world war I, and the politicans in world war II.
J
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#56
(Original post by foolfarian)
Is it better to be a slave to a fellow human being (as would have happened if invasions were allowed to occur) or is it better to make a stand and do something you find totally abhorrent - just to protect your freedoms.
Is it better to be a slave to a fellow human being (as would have happened if invasions were allowed to occur) or is it better to make a stand and do something you find totally abhorrent - just to protect your freedoms.
You have to recall that the real *******s of the world wars never did die in battle. It was the aristocracy in world war I, and the politicans in world war II.
J
J
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#57
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
I agree
Remeberence day isn't about remembering how righteous wars have been - it's about remember all the suffering and pain has been caused by war - regardless of how justified the war was and whether you agree with the reasons behind it.
I think the reasons for the Iraq war were dubious but that doesn't mean I don't sympathise for all the wounded and relatives of those who've died - British, American and Iraqi. War causes grief to all those involved.
Rememberance day isn't a conscience easer for the government - it's about the people of this country recognising the motives behind it's army, navy and airforce personnel and respecting those who have died and suffered in the name of others. It's about the public respecting that at any time we might be asking our armed forces to lay their lives on the line in our defence and showing respect and gratitude to the people willing to do that.
I agree
Remeberence day isn't about remembering how righteous wars have been - it's about remember all the suffering and pain has been caused by war - regardless of how justified the war was and whether you agree with the reasons behind it.
I think the reasons for the Iraq war were dubious but that doesn't mean I don't sympathise for all the wounded and relatives of those who've died - British, American and Iraqi. War causes grief to all those involved.
Rememberance day isn't a conscience easer for the government - it's about the people of this country recognising the motives behind it's army, navy and airforce personnel and respecting those who have died and suffered in the name of others. It's about the public respecting that at any time we might be asking our armed forces to lay their lives on the line in our defence and showing respect and gratitude to the people willing to do that.
Remembrance isn't also just about armed forces though. Everyone in Britain and the Commonwealth was deeply affected in the World Wars. I cannot imagine what it would be like to be under those conditions.
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#58
(Original post by vienna95)
truly shocking.
truly shocking.
no one said the dead shouldn't be respected, only that that respect shouldn't also be caught up in respect for the rulers who sent them there and implied disregard for any of the poor conscripted buggers on the other side.
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#59
(Original post by llama boy)
are you going to provide an argument for your view or just hide behind mock disbelief at any view that in any way denies the status quo?
no one said the dead shouldn't be respected, only that that respect shouldn't also be caught up in respect for the rulers who sent them there and implied disregard for any of the poor conscripted buggers on the other side.
are you going to provide an argument for your view or just hide behind mock disbelief at any view that in any way denies the status quo?
no one said the dead shouldn't be respected, only that that respect shouldn't also be caught up in respect for the rulers who sent them there and implied disregard for any of the poor conscripted buggers on the other side.
"I dont think we should have rememberance day to remember these people because they died at war "
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#60
(Original post by llama boy)
are you going to provide an argument for your view or just hide behind mock disbelief at any view that in any way denies the status quo?
no one said the dead shouldn't be respected, only that that respect shouldn't also be caught up in respect for the rulers who sent them there and implied disregard for any of the poor conscripted buggers on the other side.
are you going to provide an argument for your view or just hide behind mock disbelief at any view that in any way denies the status quo?
no one said the dead shouldn't be respected, only that that respect shouldn't also be caught up in respect for the rulers who sent them there and implied disregard for any of the poor conscripted buggers on the other side.
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