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Albion
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#1
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#1
What does everyone think of this idea? David Blunkett has been going on about bringing them in over the last few months and today it seems like it just might go ahead.

Personally I am completely against the idea. What is this country? Nazi Germany? I have a right to leave my house and walk around my own town without having the authorities demanding to see some ID card. If they are made compulsory will people be arrested simply for walking to the shops if they don't have an ID card on them? Surely to commit a crime and be branded a criminal is to do something immoral? Where is the lack of morals in not taking a card around with you?

They say its to stop terrorists and illegal immigrants but in the case of terrorists, how exactly? Are the police going to stop anyone whenever they see people walking to streets and demand to see their card? If they don't have one then they must be a terrorist, right? Surely that would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack, how many terroists are living in Britain at the minute? 10? 100? Even if it was 1000 this is a tiny minority compared to normal British people, if the police stopped anyone they ever saw they still wouldn't get most of the terrorists until they had stopped every single person living in Britain. Come on its just not going to work like that is it.

I do think they would be an effective measure against illegal immigrants but I think the whole scheme pisses over our civil liberties so much that it is not worth it, there are surely other ways of finding illegal immigrants that wouldn't affect so many peoples lives and allow the police to stop us whenever we our out and about demanding to see our cards with all our private details on. How about better border controls and investigating cash in hand employers to see exactly who they are employing?

If these things come in I will never carry one, I honestly would go to prision instead on the principle. It makes me wonder what the governments real motive in this is, it sounds like something Ingsoc would have really loved.

Is it just me? Am I being paranoid/over-reacting? What does everyone else think? Are you personally prepared to carry one and be stopped by the police for them to check it whenever they please?
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gemgems89
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#2
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(Original post by Albion)
What does everyone think of this idea? David Blunkett has been going on about bringing them in over the last few months and today it seems like it just might go ahead.

Personally I am completely against the idea. What is this country? Nazi Germany? I have a right to leave my house and walk around my own town without having the authorities demanding to see some ID card. If they are made compulsory will people be arrested simply for walking to the shops if they don't have an ID card on them? Surely to commit a crime and be branded a criminal is to do something immoral? Where is the lack of morals in not taking a card around with you?

They say its to stop terrorists and illegal immigrants but in the case of terrorists, how exactly? Are the police going to stop anyone whenever they see people walking to streets and demand to see their card? If they don't have one then they must be a terrorist, right? Surely that would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack, how many terroists are living in Britain at the minute? 10? 100? Even if it was 1000 this is a tiny minority compared to normal British people, if the police stopped anyone they ever saw they still wouldn't get most of the terrorists until they had stopped every single person living in Britain. Come on its just not going to work like that is it.

I do think they would be an effective measure against illegal immigrants but I think the whole scheme pisses over our civil liberties so much that it is not worth it, there are surely other ways of finding illegal immigrants that wouldn't affect so many peoples lives and allow the police to stop us whenever we our out and about demanding to see our cards with all our private details on. How about better border controls and investigating cash in hand employers to see exactly who they are employing?

If these things come in I will never carry one, I honestly would go to prision instead on the principle. It makes me wonder what the governments real motive in this is, it sounds like something Ingsoc would have really loved.

Is it just me? Am I being paranoid/over-reacting? What does everyone else think? Are you personally prepared to carry one and be stopped by the police for them to check it whenever they please?
I don't think they are going to stop just anyone they see. I heard that you would have to show the ID card when you are, for example, I don't know...getting benefits or something.
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DanMushMan
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#3
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i don't think they have said u will have to carry them around all the time, like driving licenses, if you can't produce one then you will probably have to produce it within a certain amout of time to a police station.
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Unregistered11
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#4
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#4
(Original post by Albion)
What does everyone think of this idea? David Blunkett has been going on about bringing them in over the last few months and today it seems like it just might go ahead.

Personally I am completely against the idea. What is this country? Nazi Germany? I have a right to leave my house and walk around my own town without having the authorities demanding to see some ID card. If they are made compulsory will people be arrested simply for walking to the shops if they don't have an ID card on them? Surely to commit a crime and be branded a criminal is to do something immoral? Where is the lack of morals in not taking a card around with you?

They say its to stop terrorists and illegal immigrants but in the case of terrorists, how exactly? Are the police going to stop anyone whenever they see people walking to streets and demand to see their card? If they don't have one then they must be a terrorist, right? Surely that would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack, how many terroists are living in Britain at the minute? 10? 100? Even if it was 1000 this is a tiny minority compared to normal British people, if the police stopped anyone they ever saw they still wouldn't get most of the terrorists until they had stopped every single person living in Britain. Come on its just not going to work like that is it.

I do think they would be an effective measure against illegal immigrants but I think the whole scheme pisses over our civil liberties so much that it is not worth it, there are surely other ways of finding illegal immigrants that wouldn't affect so many peoples lives and allow the police to stop us whenever we our out and about demanding to see our cards with all our private details on. How about better border controls and investigating cash in hand employers to see exactly who they are employing?

If these things come in I will never carry one, I honestly would go to prision instead on the principle. It makes me wonder what the governments real motive in this is, it sounds like something Ingsoc would have really loved.

Is it just me? Am I being paranoid/over-reacting? What does everyone else think? Are you personally prepared to carry one and be stopped by the police for them to check it whenever they please?
Can a mod amalgamate both threads on this topic that were started about the same time. Great minds think alike eh?
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Albion
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#5
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(Original post by Unregistered11)
Can a mod amalgamate both threads on this topic that were started about the same time. Great minds think alike eh?
What was the title of the other thread? I can't find it.
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gemgems89
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#6
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(Original post by Albion)
What was the title of the other thread? I can't find it.
I think it has already been deleted.
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LH
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#7
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(Original post by DanMushMan)
i don't think they have said u will have to carry them around all the time, like driving licenses, if you can't produce one then you will probably have to produce it within a certain amout of time to a police station.
Yes, that is probably what they'll do but you may need it as proof of age or identity at other times.
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giddylid1
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(Original post by DanMushMan)
i don't think they have said u will have to carry them around all the time, like driving licenses, if you can't produce one then you will probably have to produce it within a certain amout of time to a police station.
yeah, they certainly havent said anything about having to carry them with you all the time.
I think its a good idea cos then you dont have to carry your passport and/or birth certificate with you all the time.
Lyd
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Unregistered11
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#9
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(Original post by Albion)
What was the title of the other thread? I can't find it.
I think a mod might have deleted it - it was titled 'Blunketts dictat for ID cards'
Anyway, I had asked posters to read proposals first before making a comment so they could post an 'informed' opinion.
My fear is that by the time it is compulsory (10 years according to HO) it will be compulsory to carry it at all times as was the case in S.Africa's apartheid period, when it was referred to as 'Book of Life'. If you were black you were thrown in jail for not having it on your person when stopped on a whim. If you were white you were given 7 days to produce it at local police station.
ID cards will be compulsory for every single person (over 60million) and be referenced to finger prints and iris tracing. The cards will cost (at current prices) £77, unless under 16. If pensioner they will cost £10. These fees will be paid by the individual.
I fear 1984 is coming upon us, albeit 30 years later than foreseen!
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Albion
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#10
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Ok I see, thats not as bad, but I am still disturbed by the fact we have no choice, they are compulsory and the police can still request us to take our cards down to the station to have them checked if they feel like it?
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LH
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#11
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(Original post by Albion)
Ok I see, thats not as bad, but I am still disturbed by the fact we have no choice, they are compulsory and the police can still request us to take our cards down to the station to have them checked if they feel like it?
Well passports/driving liscences are compulsary if you ever want to leave the country/drive so these will be a general identification card.
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Unregistered11
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#12
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#12
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Well passports/driving liscences are compulsary if you ever want to leave the country/drive so these will be a general identification card.
Although I can appreciate the idea of convenience for the individual (which may be the selling point of it) I still have misgivings about the need of another form of identification. A driving licence is acceptable as evidence of ability to drive, identity and use for travelling abroad. Why do we need another more intrusive form?
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Albion
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#13
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(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Well passports/driving liscences are compulsary if you ever want to leave the country/drive so these will be a general identification card.
Yes but there are very good reasons for them, passports to control immigration and prove you have the right to enter a country ect and driving licenses to prove you have passed your test and so are safe to drive a car on the roads without putting the public at danger.

What purpose does a general identification card serve? It just seems like more unnecessary and worrying state control to me.
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LH
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(Original post by Unregistered11)
Although I can appreciate the idea of convenience for the individual (which may be the selling point of it) I still have misgivings about the need of another form of identification. A driving licence is acceptable as evidence of ability to drive, identity and use for travelling abroad. Why do we need another more intrusive form?
Not everyone has a passport or driving licence, but everyone will have an ID card. You may use a passport as proof of your ID, but those who don't have one cannot, so ID cards will fill that role too.
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LH
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#15
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(Original post by Albion)
Yes but there are very good reasons for them, passports to control immigration and prove you have the right to enter a country ect and driving licenses to prove you have passed your test and so are safe to drive a car on the roads without putting the public at danger.

What purpose does a general identification card serve? It just seems like more unnecessary and worrying state control to me.
Passports aren't controlling immigration though.
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Unregistered~
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#16
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(Original post by Albion)
If these things come in I will never carry one, I honestly would go to prision instead on the principle.
I.D cards are a good idea. People naturally desire a sense of belonging and at the moment, being a British citizen is more like being an Earth Citizen. These cards will provide a sense of security and belonging. Women take bags and money and crap with them everywhere, so an extra card won't make much difference there. Men will probably leave them in their pockets, but a lot of men will leave them at home - still, no problem. Police can take their details and check up on them at a later date. The only people who will really have trouble with them are:

- illegal immigrants
- stubborn people like you
- terrorists
- and people who fake their death

They will great in the future, especially with technology. Doors will open for selected people, they will contain a person's passport, credit card, driving licence, donor card, library card etc. the system will be great!
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not1
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#17
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id cards = police state
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LH
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#18
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(Original post by edders)
id cards = police state
I do tend to agree. Even though now the cards will only hold basic information, what could they hold in the future?
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jmmnbm
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#19
(Original post by Unregistered~)
- illegal immigrants
- stubborn people like you
- terrorists
- and people who fake their death!
and escaped prisoners
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ickle_katy
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#20
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#20
since arriving here in exeter in september, we've had to carry compulsory id cards- your student card

anyone can at anytime ask to see your id, and if you cannot produce it, nessisary action can be taken.

if someone asks to see your id, you have the right to see theirs.

i personally like this system as its easy to tell who sholdnt b somewhere when they refuse to produce their id.

i dont see why anyone has a problem with id cards, if your not doing anything wrong whats the problem with showing someone who you are.

love Katy ***
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