Master in International Relations LSE vs. Fletcher

OP

Copelaes

Fletcher is a fantastic program, and Medford/Somerville/Cambridge where Tufts is located is a really really nice place to live.

I'm starting an Msc at LSE in the fall and leaving the Boston area and I'm really sad to go, not that London won't be bigger, better, and more interesting, but, eh, I'm attached to Boston!

I can't compare, both have great reputations, but I know in the States Fletcher is top notch. I interviewed there and was told they only accept people with work experiences, all of their students seem to have really illustrious histories. [I'm just an academic nerd!!].

However, I think LSE's reputation is stellar too, its a matter of whether you want American or European education. Are you from the U.S?

Hi there, thanks or your comments. I am not from the US but I know it well. I am actually originally from Colombia but have been living and working in Spain for the past six years. I got my undergrad in the US, West Virginia University and then lived in Washington DC for about a year.

I am leaning more towards LSE basically because I guess living in Londo n will be a new experience to me. Although I have not exactly lived in Boston I have spend long periods of time in the New England area (thanks to an ex-girlfriend). I really liked it. However it seem like Fletcher's reputation is more local and LSE i better known internationally.

Actually what I would like to do is to work eventually with public international organizations such as the UN or the World Bank. I wonder which of the two would have a better network in these type of institutions. I am very impressed with the recruting campaign of Fletcher. Once I found out I was accepted I have received almost daily letters from faculty of their different departments telling me about the advantages of studying at Fletcher. Just yesterday I got a phone call fro a Fletcher alumni who lives in Spain offering to get together and talk about the school in order to help me in my decision process. That is definetly something Fletcher does better than LSE. I guess since it is so competitive to get into LSE they ust don't care. Although Fletcher is also one of the most competitive programs or the subject. Anyway...a little cultural difference I guess.

What master are you going to study at LSE, IR? Why did you decide to come to LSE over grad school in the US? What's LSE's reputation like in the states? Is it well known?

I am sorry about all these questions I am startin to sound like the spanish inquisition.

Reply 4

Copelaes

DAROTO

Hi there, thanks or your comments. I am not from the US but I know it well. I am actually originally from Colombia but have been living and working in Spain for the past six years. I got my undergrad in the US, West Virginia University and then lived in Washington DC for about a year.

I am leaning more towards LSE basically because I guess living in Londo n will be a new experience to me. Although I have not exactly lived in Boston I have spend long periods of time in the New England area (thanks to an ex-girlfriend). I really liked it. However it seem like Fletcher's reputation is more local and LSE i better known internationally.

Actually what I would like to do is to work eventually with public international organizations such as the UN or the World Bank. I wonder which of the two would have a better network in these type of institutions. I am very impressed with the recruting campaign of Fletcher. Once I found out I was accepted I have received almost daily letters from faculty of their different departments telling me about the advantages of studying at Fletcher. Just yesterday I got a phone call fro a Fletcher alumni who lives in Spain offering to get together and talk about the school in order to help me in my decision process. That is definetly something Fletcher does better than LSE. I guess since it is so competitive to get into LSE they ust don't care. Although Fletcher is also one of the most competitive programs or the subject. Anyway...a little cultural difference I guess.

What master are you going to study at LSE, IR? Why did you decide to come to LSE over grad school in the US? What's LSE's reputation like in the states? Is it well known?

I am sorry about all these questions I am startin to sound like the spanish inquisition.

I am going to do an Msc in European Political Economy: Transition...I want to work for the U.S. Foreign Service or Government in general..would be interested also in the U.N or another group like that....

I currently am a graduate student at Brandeis, a private university outside of Boston and I am really unhappy with my program, so, I gave LSE a shot, got an offer and off I will go!! [to make a very long story short]. I did my undergrad at the University of Maryland. I am choosing Europe, because honestly, I would like to live in Europe and choosing to study there is a good way to pursue that. I also think its important to live/study abroad if I want to work in the U.S foreign service, especially if I want to focus on Europe.

LSE is very well known and respected in the States..anyone/everyone I tell knows it and congratulates me [including my current graduate program profs] [my own way of judging!]

I think there is a lot of meaning to the recruiting of the department, if they are welcoming and excited to have you, you will get good attention and references for future work which is crucial. On the other hand, its important to choose what you want to do, the World Bank will know Fletcher...On a third hand, maybe not the best advice, I would go where you WANT to go, Fletcher does have a good rep here in the states, I dont know about abroad and it sounds like you want to live in London, New England is appealing, but, I think London is more exciting!...

Reply 5

DAROTO

Actually what I would like to do is to work eventually with public international organizations such as the UN or the World Bank. I wonder which of the two would have a better network in these type of institutions. I am very impressed with the recruting campaign of Fletcher. Once I found out I was accepted I have received almost daily letters from faculty of their different departments telling me about the advantages of studying at Fletcher. Just yesterday I got a phone call fro a Fletcher alumni who lives in Spain offering to get together and talk about the school in order to help me in my decision process. That is definetly something Fletcher does better than LSE. I guess since it is so competitive to get into LSE they ust don't care. Although Fletcher is also one of the most competitive programs or the subject. Anyway...a little cultural difference I guess.

Having interned a few months at the UN, I have to say that no one cares what university you graduated from. The UN is like a government job. You get paid (and hired) based on the amount of experience you have in the relevant field and your degree. Where you got that degree is pretty much irrelevant. Knowing foreign language is a big plus, especially if you know several of the main six (English, Spanish, French, Chinese, Arabic and Russian). Considering that you're from Colombia, you should know at least two of those.

You might have a problem with getting relevant experience, since Brits aren't very nice about letting foreign students work in their country, but you will get your Masters a year quicker, which is always a plus. I'm imagine LSE is much more expensive than Tufts (it's hard to get a lot of aid as a foreign student), and I've heard that the prices of rent and food in London are outrageous even by a New Yorker's standard. I guess nothing in life is perfect.

Reply 6

Chengora

Hi, I realize this is coming in a little late, but hopefully my comments will be helpful. I graduated from LSE's MSc in IR last year, and have a bunch of friends in various IR programs in the US. From our discussions, I would recommend a couple more things for you to think about.

For the recruiting campaign, that is something that US universities do better across the board. Competition is stiff for their undergraduate places, and it is reflected in their graduate program literature. That said, most US IR programs, Tufts included I believe, have very high acceptance rates. Columbia can reach upwards of 50 percent for example. By contrast, LSE during my year was around 4. This does apparently affect the caliber of student you will be studying with. US programs also tend to be larger, and perhaps more diverse. LSE IR had around 75-80% non-UK students, but the majority were Europeans and Americans. Some East Asians were there, but no Africans. Of course, this spread is fairly standard for all IR programs, but with more people in the US schools, you'll simply get more. I know this perhaps sounds like a trivial matter, but I found it very important in the discussion of international ideas and policy.

LSE is well known in the US, particularly in policy circles. Be prepared to say "No, I did IR, not economics" though. It is, as others have said, also significantly cheaper, although the weak dollar and London living dent that a bit. I believe, on balance, you'll spend about 40% of what you on a comparable US program. Bismarck is correct that you probably won't get much aid, but again, this is offset by cheaper tuition.

As for finding a job afterwards, you know, neither will really be that much of a stepping stone towards the work you want to do. Yes, both schools have scholars who work with the various organizations, etc., but LSE doesn't do that good a job in building specific, IR-related networks, although you do have a great opportunity to meet world leaders by attending their lectures. Tufts is more limited in this aspect, but at least their career services are geared towards US jobs. That said, they are too far removed from the major IR power centers. If you really want a Master's for the job it'll give you directly, then go to SAIS, Georgetown, or GWU. Otherwise, no matter where you go, unless you're in London or Boston, be prepared to spend a little time temping and networking within a chosen city to find work after the master's. It's been a common occurrence with my friends from non-DC programs.

Reply 7

OP

Chengora

Hi, I realize this is coming in a little late, but hopefully my comments will be helpful. I graduated from LSE's MSc in IR last year, and have a bunch of friends in various IR programs in the US. From our discussions, I would recommend a couple more things for you to think about.

For the recruiting campaign, that is something that US universities do better across the board. Competition is stiff for their undergraduate places, and it is reflected in their graduate program literature. That said, most US IR programs, Tufts included I believe, have very high acceptance rates. Columbia can reach upwards of 50 percent for example. By contrast, LSE during my year was around 4. This does apparently affect the caliber of student you will be studying with. US programs also tend to be larger, and perhaps more diverse. LSE IR had around 75-80% non-UK students, but the majority were Europeans and Americans. Some East Asians were there, but no Africans. Of course, this spread is fairly standard for all IR programs, but with more people in the US schools, you'll simply get more. I know this perhaps sounds like a trivial matter, but I found it very important in the discussion of international ideas and policy.

LSE is well known in the US, particularly in policy circles. Be prepared to say "No, I did IR, not economics" though. It is, as others have said, also significantly cheaper, although the weak dollar and London living dent that a bit. I believe, on balance, you'll spend about 40% of what you on a comparable US program. Bismarck is correct that you probably won't get much aid, but again, this is offset by cheaper tuition.

As for finding a job afterwards, you know, neither will really be that much of a stepping stone towards the work you want to do. Yes, both schools have scholars who work with the various organizations, etc., but LSE doesn't do that good a job in building specific, IR-related networks, although you do have a great opportunity to meet world leaders by attending their lectures. Tufts is more limited in this aspect, but at least their career services are geared towards US jobs. That said, they are too far removed from the major IR power centers. If you really want a Master's for the job it'll give you directly, then go to SAIS, Georgetown, or GWU. Otherwise, no matter where you go, unless you're in London or Boston, be prepared to spend a little time temping and networking within a chosen city to find work after the master's. It's been a common occurrence with my friends from non-DC programs.

Thanks a lot for your comments. It is good to have inside information from someone who has done the program at LSE and seems to know a lot about schools in the US. What do you mean by the acceptance rate? You said in the US it can reach 50% and in LSE 4. Do you mean that for every 100 applications, 50 candidates get accepted by US schools and only 4 in LSE? That is a huge difference. So in your opinion due to this fact the caliber of the students at LSE may be higher than in the US?

It seems to me that IR schools in the US are becoming more an alternative to MBA's and try to give a similar professional approach to their programs which are geared more towards "real life". Would you say the same about IR at LSE? Or does LSE's program have more of an academic approach rather than a professional one?

Overall, considering your experience at LSE are you glad you went there or do you wish you had gone to Fletcher, Georgetown, Columbia, SAIS, etc? How has been the experience of graduates in IR from your class been as far as jobs go? Is it very different from your friends who went to IR schools in the US?

LSE is mostly known for economics but the IR program seems to be one of the most competitive ones to get into, is this known and appreciated within the school and by potential employers or is it the same if you study less demanded programs such as Political Theory or Gender Studies, or Social Psychology as long as you have the brand LSE in your degree?

Finally what school in the US would you say is more or lees the equivalent to LSE as far as their reputation (Harvard, Yale, Princeton , Columbia) Would you say LSE is like an Ivy league school in the US?

Reply 8

Chengora

Glad you found the comments helpful. Interesting questions...

I should probably disclose that I was deciding between LSE, SOAS, and SIPA, and went with the first one, of course.

Well, first off, yes, you have the acceptance rate stuff correct. In certain US programs, 50 of every 100 students gets accepted, depending on demand, application pool, etc. Particularly for foreign students, US programs have shockingly high acceptance rates. Columbia undergraduate, law, and business, for example, are all very competitive, but SIPA (which includes the MPA and MIA programs) falters on that. But, like I said, it can be a good or bad thing depending. More diversity in the student body, but less caliber of student.

As for the MBA feel, that's tricky. US IR programs don't necessarily require the finance, accounting, and more general quanitative studies that the MBA programs do. SAIS is very quantitative based, having strong connections to the World Bank, IMF, and other development/financial institutions. GWU highly emphasizes real world experience, and almost pushes its students into internships during the school year and the summer recess. However, Georgetown and Fletcher, from my understanding, don't have this emphasis, being more focused on security studies and law, respectively. That said, any school you go to, US or UK, will allow you to take greater concentrations in quantitative approaches. It's a question, however, whether they are built-in to the system, are sufficiently supported by the faculty, etc.

As for LSE, I would say on balance it resembles a more traditional academic Masters rather than a professional degree. You still walk out with great analytical abilities, but it's not coupled with the leadership and networking "training" you get in an MBA. If that's your desired focus, you should perhaps consider an MPA, depending on how you see your future career. I should mention that my picture of professional degrees is pretty colored by my friends, whom I see study a lot, but also drink and socialize quite a bit too as part of their education (I'm being serious, partly for the MBAs).

I am glad that I went to LSE, although towards the end I wish I had another year. I'm thinking it's because I had a really enjoyable academic experience and wanted to keep it going. Now, however, I do have significantly less debt than my peers. As for the job hunt, much of my friends' experiences have depended on where they are. Most LSE non-Americans were able to find a job pretty quickly. Come to DC, however, and the DC-based IR programs really have an advantage. Alumni of non-DC-based programs, both American and British, all hit the same problem coming here: temping for a while, trying to get their feet in the door, several months of looking for a job, until the market finally snaps them up.

Many people that I have met in everyday settings automatically assume that I did economics at LSE, which has largely been a positive thing. Keeps them off-balance when evaluating my abilities or it's good as an icebreaker. In job interviews, however, LSE is definitely known as one of the best places globally for IR.

As for how LSE stacks up, it is more or less equivalent to an Ivy League school. I don't know how much that really means though. No one thinks of LSE as an Ivy of course, and the "polish" on the Ivy's has diminished somewhat anyway.

I realize this is a lot of stuff all thrown together. Between Fletcher and LSE, you can't really go wrong. They're both great schools. Fletcher obviously has a great concentration on law, although they have decent scholars on more security related topics. The drawback is that you are in Boston (well, not even), removed from the major centers of IR and therefore from certain lecture/employment opportunities.

LSE, like almost all UK universities, suffers from a lack of funds compared to US schools. So, expect Tufts to have much better facilities. But, you are in London, get great speakers, and have a wider range of excellent professors specializing in more topics. You can also draw on LSE's other departments and courses.

Of course, the teaching system is entirely different, and depending on the structure of your previous education, you may get more out of one system or another. If you can give me an idea of what your educational structure was like, I might be able to give you some better advice.

Reply 9

gwynedd

i'm currently an undergrad at Tufts, and have some experience with Fletcher. i live about 50 feet from it and frequently use the library, and i have profs who teach both undergrad and Fletcher courses.

While I'm not an IR person, I can tell you that Fletcher is one of the best schools in the world to study IR. it has a huge international population, like LSE does, and is fairly small - i dont know how large LSE's class is. Fletcher has some great facilities and the faculty is at the top of its field. I'd say LSE and Tufts attract the same caliber of guest speakers, so that shouldn't really be a worry.

Don't worry about not being in DC or New York. Tufts is constantly reminding us of Fletcher alumni who go on to be top diplomats of countries all over the world, work for the UN, or start up NGOs, etc. Plus, Boston is easily the academic hub of the US. You have Fletcher, Harvard's Kennedy school and MIT all within a few miles of each other.

I'd say the quality of education at Fletcher and LSE are about equal...just consider if you want to live in suburban Boston or London. I spent a year at UCL and I much prefered London to Medford. Also, figure out which one puts you in more debt. I'd go for the school that costs less, as they both have fantastic reputations.

Sorry I couldn't be more specific, but if you have questions about live in Medford/Somerville I'd love to help!

Reply 10

csj7

I have been reading this forum (as well as one about Oxford vs Cambridge MPhil) and thought the feedback given here is great. I wanted to post the same four questions on this forum as I posted on the other forum, to see if anyone else has some insights.

First question: UK masters programs in IR are incredibly competitive to get into, much more so than equivalent US programs. So I would be interested in knowing if I have a shot at Cambridge, Oxford, and LSE. Here is my background:
•I’m from the US, with an Ivy League degree (from Cornell), which I completed in a total of two years:
-I had two majors, Policy Analysis and Management and Biology
-My Policy Analysis and Management GPA was about a 3.7
-My Biology GPA was about a 2.7
-Therefore my cumulative GPA worked out to be a 3.2 even though my GPA is relevant coursework was significantly higher. (Does this lower cumulative GPA preclude me from Cambridge and Oxford? From what I read this is the case.)
•I am currently doing an online/distance MSc in Financial Economics at SOAS. So far I’ve aced all of my classes. This degree will be complete just as I’m ready to enroll in a Master’s in International Affairs.
•I have four years of very international, high-level strategy consulting experience. I have spent almost a year on an engagement in China (living in Shanghai) and have worked on other projects in Taiwan, Korea, Mexico, Brazil, and South Africa
•Beyond my daytime job, I started my own study abroad company in 2004 and its been pretty successful
•I speak Chinese, Spanish, and Portuguese
•GRE scores – very strong verbal, pretty strong quant and analytical
So do I stand a chance at Cambridge or Oxford or LSE? Or does my undergrad GPA kill me?

Second question: What is the reputation of Sciences Po (I am interested in the English-language Masters in IR)? I have read a lot on this forum about LSE vs. Oxford vs. Cambridge and even a bit about the US schools, but no one ever mentions Sciences Po. Personally, I think I would be really interested in going there as you would be constantly immersed in quite a different culture.

Third question: What is the value of an econ/trade-focused PhD in International Relations to the private sector once I finish. I have a great interest in a PhD, mainly for myself and for my own intellectual curiosity. That said, I intend to work in the private sector and I don’t want to be unemployable afterwards. Ideally I see myself doing sell-side research on international sovereign debt or possibly even international equities. Is a PhD going to make me unemployable? Or would it be an advantage?

Fourth question: how does tuition UK work for UK/EU vs international students? I am a dual US-German citizen, though I have lived in the US my whole life (I’m German through my mother). I know in certain programs, for EU students, tuition is lower though I don’t know for which programs. Can someone please explain UK/EU vs. Non-EU tuition for the IR programs at Cambridge, Oxford, and LSE? And if anyone knows, what about Science Po?

Like I said in the other forum, thanks in advance for any advice and if anyone has any questions that I could answer (perhaps on careers in consulting or any other topics) please post or email me, I’d be glad to help.

Carl

Reply 11

I could only answer the first and the last question.

1. I'm about to graduate from a state college, with a higher GPA than you, but with much less relevant work experience, and no extracurricular activities to speak of. I was still accepted to LSE (for a Masters in IR), so I assume you have a great chance of getting in. LSE doesn't look at your GRE score at all by the way.

4. Home status at LSE at least is determined by where you live, not the country you're a citizen of. I think even a non-EU national who lived his last few years in the EU would be considered a home student, while an EU-national who lived abroad would be considered an international student. In other words, expect to pay the full tuition if you get in (which is currently $23,000 per year). If you were a home student, you'd pay the same (only undergraduate and doctorate degrees are cheaper for EU-nationals), but you'd probably get much more financial aid.

Reply 12

Earlham

1

What on earth is Sciences Po? Do you mean politicial science?

As a near politics major, I'm secretly wondering when the rest of academia will realize that it's not a science! :smile:

Reply 13

Earlham

What on earth is Sciences Po? Do you mean politicial science?

As a near politics major, I'm secretly wondering when the rest of academia will realize that it's not a science! :smile:

Have you ever read any political science quantitative study in an academic journal? I can assure you they're as scientific and as boring as any other behavioral science. :smile:

Reply 14

Earlham

1

I've tried. I usually run away when there are too many numbers. :smile:

I guess we've just mostly done political history, which I like.

But, isn't there also an argument to make that putting numbers on human behaviour is just plain silly?

Reply 15

Earlham

I've tried. I usually run away when there are too many numbers. :smile:

I guess we've just mostly done political history, which I like.

But, isn't there also an argument to make that putting numbers on human behaviour is just plain silly?

I run away once I see that the explanation of the statistical model is longer than the political theory being examined. :smile:

As long as those numbers have some predictive capacity, what's wrong with trying to understand human behavior? Just think how far economics has come in the last 300 years. We went from no understanding to how markets functions to being able to understand and (partially) control business cycles. We are able to diagnose psychological problems at a very young age and allow the effected people to live normal lives. We know that economic interdependence is not a panacea to war as war previously thought. Just because something isn't accurate 100% of the time doesn't make it worthless. And most importantly, people like us wouldn't have jobs if behavioral sciences didn't exist. :smile:

Reply 16

OP

csj7

I have been reading this forum (as well as one about Oxford vs Cambridge MPhil) and thought the feedback given here is great. I wanted to post the same four questions on this forum as I posted on the other forum, to see if anyone else has some insights.

First question: UK masters programs in IR are incredibly competitive to get into, much more so than equivalent US programs. So I would be interested in knowing if I have a shot at Cambridge, Oxford, and LSE. Here is my background:
•I’m from the US, with an Ivy League degree (from Cornell), which I completed in a total of two years:
-I had two majors, Policy Analysis and Management and Biology
-My Policy Analysis and Management GPA was about a 3.7
-My Biology GPA was about a 2.7
-Therefore my cumulative GPA worked out to be a 3.2 even though my GPA is relevant coursework was significantly higher. (Does this lower cumulative GPA preclude me from Cambridge and Oxford? From what I read this is the case.)
•I am currently doing an online/distance MSc in Financial Economics at SOAS. So far I’ve aced all of my classes. This degree will be complete just as I’m ready to enroll in a Master’s in International Affairs.
•I have four years of very international, high-level strategy consulting experience. I have spent almost a year on an engagement in China (living in Shanghai) and have worked on other projects in Taiwan, Korea, Mexico, Brazil, and South Africa
•Beyond my daytime job, I started my own study abroad company in 2004 and its been pretty successful
•I speak Chinese, Spanish, and Portuguese
•GRE scores – very strong verbal, pretty strong quant and analytical
So do I stand a chance at Cambridge or Oxford or LSE? Or does my undergrad GPA kill me?

Second question: What is the reputation of Sciences Po (I am interested in the English-language Masters in IR)? I have read a lot on this forum about LSE vs. Oxford vs. Cambridge and even a bit about the US schools, but no one ever mentions Sciences Po. Personally, I think I would be really interested in going there as you would be constantly immersed in quite a different culture.

Third question: What is the value of an econ/trade-focused PhD in International Relations to the private sector once I finish. I have a great interest in a PhD, mainly for myself and for my own intellectual curiosity. That said, I intend to work in the private sector and I don’t want to be unemployable afterwards. Ideally I see myself doing sell-side research on international sovereign debt or possibly even international equities. Is a PhD going to make me unemployable? Or would it be an advantage?

Fourth question: how does tuition UK work for UK/EU vs international students? I am a dual US-German citizen, though I have lived in the US my whole life (I’m German through my mother). I know in certain programs, for EU students, tuition is lower though I don’t know for which programs. Can someone please explain UK/EU vs. Non-EU tuition for the IR programs at Cambridge, Oxford, and LSE? And if anyone knows, what about Science Po?

Like I said in the other forum, thanks in advance for any advice and if anyone has any questions that I could answer (perhaps on careers in consulting or any other topics) please post or email me, I’d be glad to help.

Carl

Well I finally made up my mind and decided to go for IR at LSE. I am thinking in the future I might like to go for the PhD. Is it posible to do a part time PhD in IR at LSE. I know Cambridge has a part time PhD in international Studies, does anybody know about this program?

As far as the questions I definetly believe you have a good chance to get into LSE. Hopefully they will not pay that much attention to your rades in biology and focus more on related classes.

As far as Science Po I beleieve it has a great reputation. I am not sure what the french system is like however I know it is considered one of the best universities in France. Actually if you want the whole experience LSE has a joint degree with Science Po called the practice of international affairs and it is more focused on negotiation and international political economy for what I see (I think that is your main interest isn't it). You do a year in each school and I think you actaually get a degree form both institutions.

Reply 17

csj7

Bismarck

1. I'm about to graduate from a state college, with a higher GPA than you, but with much less relevant work experience, and no extracurricular activities to speak of. I was still accepted to LSE (for a Masters in IR), so I assume you have a great chance of getting in. LSE doesn't look at your GRE score at all by the way.

Thanks for the insight. I'm really thinking most about the MSc in Global Market Economics or the MSc in the Politics of the World Economy. What's your impression about those programs? How hard are they to get into?

Bismarck

4. Home status at LSE at least is determined by where you live, not the country you're a citizen of. I think even a non-EU national who lived his last few years in the EU would be considered a home student, while an EU-national who lived abroad would be considered an international student. In other words, expect to pay the full tuition if you get in (which is currently $23,000 per year). If you were a home student, you'd pay the same (only undergraduate and doctorate degrees are cheaper for EU-nationals), but you'd probably get much more financial aid.

Okay... I see how it works. Even though the exchange rate is bad, $23,000 still isn't bad when you compare it to the US.

Thanks.

Reply 18