Is this fair.. sister punched my dad and is grounded.

jismith1989

You can find reference to them in any psychology textbook, buy one if you're interested. The Bandura study already mentioned by someone is just one example of how aggression can be socially replicated, i.e. passed from parent/role model to child.

Yes but I don't have the money to buy a text book. Also I doubt the study concerns only smacking children. Also I don't know what it concerns because I can't read it and likely never will be able to read it, so it's kind of a moot point isn't it?

The law in this country is you can smack your child but you can't beat them, like you used to be able to back in the 50s, I'm sure they didn't come to that decision lightly. If you ask me it should be a last resort and only used after all else has been tried and failed to work. But then I don't really have the right to dictate parental policy either.

Reply 222

JMonkey

Yes but I don't have the money to buy a text book. Also I doubt the study concerns only smacking children. Also I don't know what it concerns because I can't read it and likely never will be able to read it, so it's kind of a moot point isn't it?

The law in this country is you can smack your child but you can't beat them, like you used to be able to back in the 50s, I'm sure they didn't come to that decision lightly.

You're debating just for the sake of debating now. "I don't have the money to buy a textbook" -- what kind of argument is that against the studies being valid?!

Well, there would have been popular uproar if they had banned smacking outright (besides the fact that it would be virtually unenforcable): many people want to smack their children, that doesn't mean that it's right though. However, in a democracy, the fact is that, right or wrong, the voice of popular opinion is given considerable weight.

Reply 223

jismith1989

You're debating just for the sake of debating now. "I don't have the money to buy a textbook" -- what kind of argument is that against the studies being valid?!

Well, there would have been popular uproar if they had banned smacking outright (besides the fact that it would be virtually unenforcable): many people want to smack their children, that doesn't mean that it's right though. However, in a democracy, the fact is that, right or wrong, 'the voice of the country' is given considerable weight.

I don't even know what they apply to or what they are about, how can I critique an argument I can't read?

Honestly I'm not asking for much here, there should be a study somewhere on the interweb. If it says smacking your kids means they become 10% more evil then I'll retract my opinion. Simple as that.

Reply 224

JMonkey

I don't even know what they apply to or what they are about, how can I critique an argument I can't read?

Honestly I'm not asking for much here, there should be a study somewhere on the interweb. If it says smacking your kids means they become 10% more evil then I'll retract my opinion. Simple as that.

Well, this is from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobo_doll_experiment

I've not read it, so don't know about its accuracy, but would assume it to be generally so.

Reply 225

JMonkey

I don't even know what they apply to or what they are about, how can I critique an argument I can't read?

Honestly I'm not asking for much here, there should be a study somewhere on the interweb. If it says smacking your kids means they become 10% more evil then I'll retract my opinion. Simple as that.

Why is your worry concerning whether smacking leads to 'a worse person' or not?

Surely the important point when choosing whether to use smacking as a means of discipline is not whether you're going to produce a monster or not, but how it will affect the child's future relationships, and whether it is necessary to do so, to ensure adequate discipline.

Reply 226

jismith1989

Well, I'm not entirely sure about that one. :p:

But thanks nonetheless. :yy:

oops - it does sound pretty odd :p:

I meant people with your beliefs/morals kinda thing.

Reply 227

Gulli

PrincessRose5

No it's not: clearly those who have been hit/beaten by parents have been brought up in that manner, and therefore see it as normal and acceptable. Those who have not, and have been disciplined in a different manner, but have still managed to grow up into moral and happy people, do not see the need for physical abuse in nurturing and teaching a child about the world.

that was kind of my point... there are oviously different ways of dealing with anything, which will still have the same end result.
smacking your kids is not bad, in my opinion it works better than psycological reprimanding, if you are close to your parents and they lose your trust in you then it stays with you for a lot longer than a smack. With a smack it hurts, you learn not to do it again, and get over it.

Reply 228

jismith1989

Well, this is from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobo_doll_experiment

I've not read it, so don't know about its accuracy, but would assume it to be generally so.

Thanks I don't think I'm being unreasonable here:

In a follow-up study, Bandura (1965) found that when children viewed aggressive behaviour and then viewed that behaviour being either rewarded or punished that children were less likely to emit aggressive behaviours when they had viewed an adult model being punished for aggressive behavior. Children who saw the model rewarded did not differ in aggressive behaviors from those that saw a model receive no reward. Bandura then offered an incentive for all three groups of children to recall what had happened in the video, and all three groups recalled the modeled aggression at approximately similar levels.

From your article, I think its not as conclusive as you might like to think it is. Either the subject is no longer a matter of debate or those papers there are are buried in academia and I wouldn't expect anyone but a psyche major to be able to find them. Oh well we'll just have to agree that there's nothing concrete out there atm I think.

Reply 229

PrincessRose5

oops - it does sound pretty odd

I meant people with your beliefs/morals kinda thing.

Hey, I don't mind marriage proposals. :cool:

I was just questioning whether I'm necessarily marriage material -- but I would like to think that if I ever do have children, I will be able to be open with them, treat them maturely and suchlike.

Reply 230

JMonkey

Thanks I don't think I'm being unreasonable here:

From your article, I think its not as conclusive as you might like to think it is. Either the subject is no longer a matter of debate or those papers there are are buried in academia and I wouldn't expect anyone but a psyche major to be able to find them. Oh well we'll just have to agree that there's nothing concrete out there atm I think.

Well, that quotation doesn't contradict the hypothesis that aggression causes aggression, merely that if aggression is punished (i.e. seen as a bad thing) then it is less likely to be emulated. However, the aggression of parents rarely is punished.

Also, the task in which they were given an incentive shows that all children retained the knowledge of how to be aggressive -- but only when the aggression went unpunished was it emulated.

Reply 231

JMonkey

Thanks I don't think I'm being unreasonable here:

From your article, I think its not as conclusive as you might like to think it is. Either the subject is no longer a matter of debate or those papers there are are buried in academia and I wouldn't expect anyone but a psyche major to be able to find them. Oh well we'll just have to agree that there's nothing concrete out there atm I think.

Bandura found that the children exposed to the aggressive model were more likely to act in physically aggressive ways than those who were not exposed to the aggressive model.

The same pattern applied to the instances of imitative verbal aggression exhibited by the child exposed to the aggressive model as opposed to those exposed to the nonaggressive model or no model at all.

They came to the conclusion that children observing adult behaviour are influenced to think that this type of behaviour is acceptable thus weakening the child's aggressive inhibitions. The result of reduced aggressive inhibitions in children means that they are more likely to respond to future situations in a more aggressive manner.

Reply 232

jismith1989

Hey, I don't mind marriage proposals. :cool:

I was just questioning whether I'm necessarily marriage material -- but I would like to think that if I ever do have children, I will be able to be open with them, treat them maturely and suchlike.

That's what i always feel whenever I think about myself becoming a mother. And I'm sure you'll make great marriage material for some gal some day!

Reply 233

electrix

fioram

If he hit her first, then I think he should have been arrested for abuse.

No sh*t sherlock :rolleyes:

Reply 234

PrincessRose5

Bandura found that the children exposed to the aggressive model were more likely to act in physically aggressive ways than those who were not exposed to the aggressive model.

The same pattern applied to the instances of imitative verbal aggression exhibited by the child exposed to the aggressive model as opposed to those exposed to the nonaggressive model or no model at all.

They came to the conclusion that children observing adult behaviour are influenced to think that this type of behaviour is acceptable thus weakening the child's aggressive inhibitions. The result of reduced aggressive inhibitions in children means that they are more likely to respond to future situations in a more aggressive manner.

Yes I did read it, but it also says that children exhibiting violent behaviour who are punished are less likely to exhibit violent behaviour. So should the dad of grounded her or not?

Not only that but the study is ancient and things have probably changed in psychology, I'd prefer something up to date, if that's the best you have then fine.

I'd also like something long term as well, ie children exposed to smacking on a continuous basis. To see what long term affect it had. The methodology for short term behaviour seems valid enough in one experiment, but it should of been replicated by others to maintain any scientific validity. Plus the statistical group is too small. I'd of preferred something above n=50*2 otherwise statistical validity can be compromised, particularly when there is no particular type of child or we don't know how aggressive the children were in the first place.

Reply 235