Can torture ever be justified? Watch

Ele1340
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Am doing a project on torture for one of my uni modules. Give me your opinions on whether torture can ever be justified.
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tis_me_lord
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I don't think so, suprising people with kindness is supposed to actually be more effective for obtaining information anyway.

The right to not be tortured should be upheld by any defender of liberty; the day our nation is willing to breach this fundemental liberty, we stop having any cause to fight for.
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Ele1340
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(Original post by tis_me_lord)
I don't think so, suprising people with kindness is supposed to actually be more effective for obtaining information anyway.

The right to not be tortured should be upheld by any defender of liberty; the day our nation is willing to breach this fundemental liberty, we stop having any cause to fight for.
This is the line taken by alot of people. There is the ticking bomb arguement though. A person has placed a bomb in the middle of a city and you have a limited time to get the information before it goes off. Do you torture them to find it in time? or do you let it go off?
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Arteta
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If you know you have the right person, and the prize is worth it, then yes.

The world has always worked this way, sometimes you need torture.
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tis_me_lord
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(Original post by Ele1340)
This is the line taken by alot of people. There is the ticking bomb arguement though. A person has placed a bomb in the middle of a city and you have a limited time to get the information before it goes off. Do you torture them to find it in time? or do you let it go off?
You try and extract the information through other means: and ultimately have to let the bomb go off.

That's not a flaw in the British government, it's terrorism in the wrong. To not drag ourselves down to that level is the best thing to do.
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Neo Con
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(Original post by Ele1340)
Am doing a project on torture for one of my uni modules. Give me your opinions on whether torture can ever be justified.

Yes it can. Stress positions and Waterboarding were used against enemy combatants in Guantamano Bay.
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aliphatic
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(Original post by tis_me_lord)
You try and extract the information through other means: and ultimately have to let the bomb go off.

That's not a flaw in the British government, it's terrorism in the wrong. To not drag ourselves down to that level is the best thing to do.
You'd let possibly hundreds of people die for the sake of not wanting to hurt, not kill, one single person?
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C_c
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Jack Bauer. My hero. Gets the job done, no mess and no fuss.
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Ele1340
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(Original post by Neo Con)
Yes it can. Stress positions and Waterboarding were used against enemy combatants in Guantamano Bay.
When the Gestapo used these methods, it was classed as torture and unjustified. Why was Mr. Bush doing it any different?
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tis_me_lord
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(Original post by Neo Con)
Yes it can. Stress positions and Waterboarding were used against enemy combatants in Guantamano Bay.
Guantamano Bay was a disgusting breach of the contitution, it may as well have been run by Hezbollah or any other scum - I don't see how the horrifically unjustifiable can be used as proof that torture is acceptable.
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vinsta
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That guy who raped his daughter in his prison for 17 years should have his **** cut off cm by cm everyday whilst having branches shoved up his ass.
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im so academic
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Yeah, why not. If you have the power - why not? :rolleyes:

Though, on a serious note, it can harm people. Which is bad. And is wrong. And inhumane.
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Christien
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(Original post by tis_me_lord)
You try and extract the information through other means: and ultimately have to let the bomb go off.

That's not a flaw in the British government, it's terrorism in the wrong. To not drag ourselves down to that level is the best thing to do.



That sort of absolute morality is only going to lead to more unnecessary death. I would rather compromise the well-being of a bombing **** bag than the lives of hundreds, possibly thousands of people.
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cowsgoquack
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Yeah S&M or actually turning up for a molecular ecology lecture
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tis_me_lord
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(Original post by aliphatic)
You'd let possibly hundreds of people die for the sake of not wanting to hurt, not kill, one single person?
Don't make me the bad guy, it's the bomber to blame and not myself.

All I can/would do is make a nation dedicated to liberty and freedom - I wouldn't be hypocritical like UK/USA currently are, because it's something I truly believe in and would die for.

If we stayed true and liberal and showed ourselves to be superior to terrorism, we would win the war on terror: it would ultimately save lives as the war ends and the wesr prevails.

But instead in the interests of "national security" the west keeps giving everybody more reasons to hate them, more reasons to think of them as no better than the rest of the world and as such this war continues and bombs continue.

So again: I'm not the bad guy, I defend liberty - those who don't are the bad guys be they terrorists, or westerners.
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Neo Con
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(Original post by Ele1340)
When the Gestapo used these methods, it was classed as torture and unjustified. Why was Mr. Bush doing it any different?
What you must understand is that there is a difference between very physical torture for sadistic purposes (Gestapo) and "stress techniques" adopted by the White House. These stress techniques are necessary to gleen information from enemy combatants who want to kill millions of people, and at the same time, they are not inhumane like techinques of the gestapo.

How else do you suggest interrogating a guilty person who is refusing to co-operation? There has to some pressure you must apply in the form of stress techniques.
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Age_of_Innocence
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(Original post by C_c)
Jack Bauer. My hero. Gets the job done, no mess and no fuss.

Haha, I was just thinking about that as I read the topic title.
Edit, seen episode 14? Cracking stuff.
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numb3rb0y
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(Original post by Neo Con)
What you must understand is that there is a difference between very physical torture for sadistic purposes (Gestapo) and "stress techniques" adopted by the White House. These stress techniques are necessary to gleen information from enemy combatants who want to kill millions of people, and at the same time, they are not inhumane like techinques of the gestapo.

How else do you suggest interrogating a guilty person who is refusing to co-operation? There has to some pressure you must apply in the form of stress techniques.
How in god's name is simulated forced drowning not inhumane?

In answer to OP: No, never. The ends do not justify the means, not to mention the very real (as proven by Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib) possibility of innocents being tortured.
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Neo Con
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(Original post by tis_me_lord)
Guantamano Bay was a disgusting breach of the contitution, it may as well have been run by Hezbollah or any other scum - I don't see how the horrifically unjustifiable can be used as proof that torture is acceptable.
No it wasn't, it was a neccessary step. Plus the people who were held there had no rights as normal people as they were not prisoners of war. They were unconventional jihadists so geneva conventions do not apply.

Note-the prisonor war status was given to Saddam's Baathists as it was an offical government.

The US is fair and firm. Don't compare us to crap like Hezbollah, use some common sense. The US is the super power of the world, the greatest democracy and strongest nation.
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jonny23563
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I don't think I could torture someone, so no. I find a lot of people who support things like torture, capital punishment etc. support them as long as they don't have to carry out the act.
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