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I hope the opening poster is a troll. Unless you've had or seen someone with a mental illness it is hard to know the true extent of them. They completely ruin lives, they're as real as cancer or heart disease, and the stigma attached to them only makes it worse. Yes, some people do fake mental health problems but then some people fake physical health problems for similar reasons (ever heard of Munchausen’s syndrome?).

phil.
edanon
But aren't there varying degrees of OCD?

I thought i had it at one point as a child but it wasn't anything crazy like washing my hands till they bleed.

I used to do things like walk past a bollard in the street and then have to run back to it to touch it.

or.. touching every gate on front gardens in a street... or touching the fridge handle 3 times to make sure its closed.

i'm pretty sure they're OCD to a certain degree although they're not serious.


Well there's a whole spectrum, isn't there? Many people have mild OCD or OCD tendencies like the ones you've described above. I imagine the more severe cases are less common :smile:
epitaph for my heart
you're the psychologist but I think your brain does physically change from learned mental behaviour?


Yes, brain structure does change with learned behaviours, but nothing to the extent that those MRI scans show.
Reply 63
JMonkey
Yes but you'd have to be an idiot to believe that mental illness was all completely fictional wouldn't you? I mean it's like saying cancer doesn't exist because you don't know anyone who's got it or had it. Ie moronic.


Perhaps so. Though I don't see where the 'you don't know anyone who's got it' bit comes from; I know plenty of people diagnosed with mental illnesses. Still, that's pedantic.
I've been diagnosed with OCD, and trust me i wouldn't fake it. It ruins your life and takes out the 'fun'. Somehow, the thought of sitting there worrying over nothing for four hours non-stop, isn't fun for me.
Reply 65
cpj1987
I just don't believe that they're medical conditions. I accept that those behaviours exist of course (unlike the OP, who thinks they're faked), but I see them simply as being behaviours.
I just don't see why everything needs to be diagnosed and given a medical name, when it's simply a trait or behaviour - and I certainly don't think diagnoses (and thus following self-fulfilling prophecies and drug prescription) are the right way to go about changing behaviours.


Because they're not traits or behaviours, they're medical conditions. You're extremely ignorant.

The "traits" and "behaviours" are symptoms of medical conditions. It's not a matter of opinion any more than AIDS is.
edanon
But aren't there varying degrees of OCD?

I thought i had it at one point as a child but it wasn't anything crazy like washing my hands till they bleed.

I used to do things like walk past a bollard in the street and then have to run back to it to touch it.

or.. touching every gate on front gardens in a street... or touching the fridge handle 3 times to make sure its closed.

i'm pretty sure they're OCD to a certain degree although they're not serious.

Well of course, there's mild to sevear. Your sounds mild as well. I think a lot of kids have it to be honest. I did all those things too haha, like I had to spin around 5 times before crossing a road...very embarrasing but I never knew if that was tourettes or OCD. Very confusing. Mines only mild now. It comes hand in hand with Tourettes.

I was saying the people that say "Oh i'm so OCD over this" are ignorant. They're just using the condidtion to depict there obsession for something or over, but they don't actualy have it. I have known many people to just use OCD as a term of phrase. If that's the right word.
cpj1987
Perhaps so. Though I don't see where the 'you don't know anyone who's got it' bit comes from; I know plenty of people diagnosed with mental illnesses. Still, that's pedantic.


You seem to have ignored my posts for the sake of your argument.

Care to address them?
cpj1987
I believe that all behaviour is moulded by nurture. I don't believe that behaviours need changing, but if someones behaviour is impacting on their ability to live their life happily then deeper root causes must be considered - through counselling, perhaps. I'm all for people visiting GPs if they're struggling to deal with a behaviour, but I'm against classification and diagnosis because every person is different and behaviours don't need medical names.
Personally, I had a number of what could have been labelled 'mental illnesses' when I was younger; but they were natural reactions to what was going on in my life.
My brother has diagnosed dyslexia, and I think the key here is to foster good spelling - pointing out when he makes mistakes and teaching him how to spell properly, rather than resigning him to the fact that it's a mental illness and he'll never learn to spell properly, which really isn't the case (the reason I also disagree strongly with extra time in exams).
I may have gone off on a tangent here, but as I said earlier, I just really don't believe in the existence of 'mental health PROBLEMS', more conditions and behaviours that can be changed with a new mindset.


First of all, dyslexia isn't a mental disorder, so stop using it as a counter example just because the OP mentioned it.

Anyway, the reason we need to distinguish between mental disorders and abnormal behaviours is two-fold. Firstly, someone with a serious mental disorder will have an underlying cause to their behaviour, which is generally psychological, biochemical (an imbalance of chemicals in the body) or neurological (abnormal brain composition or thought patterns). Some of the causes may be inherited, but only to a limited degree. With schizophrenia, isolation from peers at an early age can be a possible cause, as can biochemical imbalances, and (as highlighted above) increased ventricle sizes or other brain abnormalities can play a huge part. By isolating the cause of a disorder, we can actually treat it, rather than just the symptoms.

Secondly, the reason that certain behaviour patterns are given labels is so that they can be effectively treated. For example, if you give anti-depressants to someone with bipolar disorder, instead of treating their depressive symptoms you might just induce a manic episode instead, or even a combination of the two, possibly resulting in suicide in the worst cases. Diagnostic Manuals such as the DSM-IV use arbitrary measurements to identify those with a certain disorder, but they tend to err on the side of caution rather than over-diagnosing.
Reply 69
cpj1987
Perhaps so. Though I don't see where the 'you don't know anyone who's got it' bit comes from; I know plenty of people diagnosed with mental illnesses. Still, that's pedantic.


No I mean "real" mental illness. The scary stuff not the stuff where they have to take two pills of a morning and they are fine. You know ******* insane? Have you ever met anyone who was just totally mental? I mean they believed they were being told to preach a message of love on the world as the second coming and that aliens were trying to catch them, but they could escape using special powers like telekenesis and teleportation and that time seemed to move either very slowly or very quickly, days could go past they'd have no memory of or an instant could be compressed into an hour or two. Try convincing a schizophrenic of anything, or curing it with love, and you'll end up with a short sharp shock. Suffice to say your views are pretty much delusional in themselves. I don't care what you believe you seem to be woefully ignorant if you believe what you do. Try visiting an open ward in a mental institution. See how many people you think can be cured with a sensible regime of reason. There's a reason drugs work for some conditions and it's to do with physiology. Not the magic of CBT.
Reply 70
GodspeedGehenna
You seem to have ignored my posts for the sake of your argument.

Care to address them?


Sorry, yes. I assume you mean the MRI scan you showed on the earlier page? My belief is that the brain changes based on behaviours and things learned, in the same way that a brain can adapt and create new pathways in some instances if part of it is damaged.
cpj1987
Sorry, yes. I assume you mean the MRI scan you showed on the earlier page? My belief is that the brain changes based on behaviours and things learned, in the same way that a brain can adapt and create new pathways in some instances if part of it is damaged.


Yes, the brain does change with learned behaviours, but that amount of change is absolutely minute in comparison to those differences, seriously.

So what about things like Parkinsons, Alzheimers and Dementia? Are those just learnt behaviours altering brain structure? If not, what's the difference?
Of course they are real conditions. If you had bi polar or another mental illness, you wouldn't have made this thread.

I spent nearly two years surrounded by people who heard voices and believed they were being followed and spied on, their thoughts being taken away, their medication being poisoned. None of that was fake, it was horrifyingly real.
a_t
Yeah, ever since watching Ricky Gervais stand up though I don't really buy ME

How can you dismiss a condition like ME-i take it you've never seen someone affected by it?
Reply 74
cpj1987
Sorry, yes. I assume you mean the MRI scan you showed on the earlier page? My belief is that the brain changes based on behaviours and things learned, in the same way that a brain can adapt and create new pathways in some instances if part of it is damaged.


Again with the belief. You really need to do some studying on the subject before you make judgements on correlation, cause and etiology.

Do dopamine levels have an effect on brain function. What happens if certain cells over produce dopamine. What can cause that to happen? Is it genetic partially? Really you need an education in clinical matters here.
Reply 75
JMonkey
No I mean "real" mental illness. The scary stuff not the stuff where they have to take two pills of a morning and they are fine. You know ******* insane? Have you ever met anyone who was just totally mental? I mean they believed they were being told to preach a message of love on the world as the second coming and that aliens were trying to catch them, but they could escape using special powers like telekenesis and teleportation and that time seemed to move either very slowly or very quickly, days could go past they'd have no memory of or an instant could be compressed into an hour or two. Try convincing a schizophrenic of anything, or curing it with love, and you'll end up with a short sharp shock. Suffice to say your views are pretty much delusional in themselves. I don't care what you believe you seem to be woefully ignorant if you believe what you do. Try visiting an open ward in a mental institution. See how many people you think can be cured with a sensible regime of reason. There's a reason drugs work for some conditions and it's to do with physiology. Not the magic of CBT.


Are you treating schizophrenia as a 'real' mental illness? If so, yes. Maybe I am woefully ignorant, but I was simply stating my beliefs, and they still stand.
cpj1987
I don't see them as real conditions, no.


You're a moron.

Of course they're ******* real.

Try having your entire life ruled, dominated and practically destroyed by some ridiculous mental condition that you have NO control over and then tell me they're not real.

Every single ******* thing you do is controlled by ridiculous rituals and processes. You can't function, think, relax, or even read. It's the most horrific thing you can imagine. And the worst thing? You look completely normal, so no-one has a clue. You don't get the tolerance or understanding tht you might with a more 'pronounced' disability. People just think you're annoying and crap.

Wow, you really are as stupid as you look.
oo_Lucinda_oo
Well, that just demonstrates your ignorance then, because dyslexia is a learning disability not a mental illness.

It's not about intelligence either - the two just often correlate, because when you find it difficult to read or write, you find it more difficult to learn, obviously. It has been diagnosed in people in all areas of intelligence, and contrary to popular belief, suffering from dyslexia doesn't make you stupid.


Learning disabilities can be mental illnesses too, you know. Austism is a learning disability but is also a mental illness.
This is utterly pointless.

No point debating with someone who refuses to acknowledge absolute tons of empirical research because of their unfounded "beliefs". That's just banging your head against a brick wall.

I truely hope that nobody close to you falls into that life-destroying pit of psychosis, lest you deem them as "misbehaving". I hope one day your eyes are actually opened to the amount of suffering and misery that mental illness can bring.
Reply 79
cpj1987
Are you treating schizophrenia as a 'real' mental illness? If so, yes. Maybe I am woefully ignorant, but I was simply stating my beliefs, and they still stand.


I've seen better arguments to support the existence of God than your arguments, belief is a poor substitute for education. In future I suggest you keep your half arsed notions to yourself unless you know what you are talking about. You are entitled to any opinion you want, even if it is preposterous. But a valid argument would be a good place to start not an ill conceived anecdotal opinion.

:ottid:

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