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    Respect to Girton - first ever female Oxbridge college. Shame its now mixed though. All you Tabs support the OUSU/CUSU save women's colleges campaign by wearing a purple ribbon or else....

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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    Respect to Girton - first ever female Oxbridge college. Shame its now mixed though. All you Tabs support the OUSU/CUSU save women's colleges campaign by wearing a purple ribbon or else....

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    Yep, got my purple ribbon proudly displayed! The jcr keep talking about our 'sisters' at St Hildas!
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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    Respect to Girton - first ever female Oxbridge college. Shame its now mixed though. All you Tabs support the OUSU/CUSU save women's colleges campaign by wearing a purple ribbon or else....

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    why? they have no real use
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    (Original post by DanMushMan)
    why? they have no real use
    Erm, yes they do. Look at the ratio of males to females in academia as a whole, and especially at Oxbridge. Think of the access issues which would arise from abolishing them.

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    (Original post by DanMushMan)
    why? they have no real use
    Oh rubbish. You must see what it's like here even though you are male.
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    More critical is the argument espoused by the CUSU Women’s Officer that 'women’s colleges have the crucial role of providing an academic environment tailored to the specific educational needs of women'. The JCAP report has notoriously found that women are at a disadvantage in their academic work. To suggest that the existence of women’s colleges redresses this imbalance is to put a band-aid on a broken limb. This is equally true for the problem of the sex imbalance in admissions. Women’s colleges do not solve the underlying problem: the gender balance continues to lie with men. The university should stop relying on the presence of all-female colleges to even out its statistics. A better solution would be to work towards the same level of provision for women university wide, rather than taking the stance that ‘1217 of them are getting the support they need. That’ll do fine.
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    When you say "the university should stop relying on the presence of all-female colleges to even out its statistics", does that imply 'reverse discrimination? In that Cambridge are using its all female college to just raise the gender ratio for women?
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    When you say "the university should stop relying on the presence of all-female colleges to even out its statistics", does that imply 'reverse discrimination? In that Cambridge are using its all female college to just raise the gender ratio for women?
    yeh,
    and i should say that was from varsity, not me.
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    Without them the statistics would be abysmal. If you look higher up at SCR level only 6 out of 92 chemistry fellows in Oxford are women and 3 are at St Hilda's. Women's colleges are vital in protecting women's representation. Yes more should be done for women across the university but women's colleges should not be abolished until then. I don't know about Cambridge, but most years Hilda's girls get the highest results for women of out of all the colleges in the university. It is just because men on the whole perform better because the system favours them that the results do not look too good on the Norrington Table.

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    (Original post by DanMushMan)
    yeh,
    and i should say that was from varsity, not me.

    ahh ok, didn't know of the allegation, although I have been told that academic performance is lower. Which may/may not be used to argue that particular point.

    For anyone that supports the presence of an all female college, how would they feel about a college designed specifically for the ethnic minorities? Would the similar arguments about access apply? Personally, I am keen on niether.
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    ahh ok, didn't know of the allegation, although I have been told that academic performance is lower. Which may/may not be used to argue that particular point.

    For anyone that supports the presence of an all female college, how would they feel about a college designed specifically for the ethnic minorities? Would the similar arguments about access apply? Personally, I am keen on niether.
    Look, if we were building a university from scratch we would not begin here, but women's colleges exist now and provide an important point of access for women from all cultures and backgrounds in which they can thrive academically. Creating a college for ethnic minorities would be ridiculous because it would be segregating rather than integrating, but the gender issue is unique. I personally feel much more comfortable, relaxed and academically confident on a singel sex environment, not because I cannot relate to men, but because I sometimes find their attitude and presence intimidating and I prefer a single sex environment.

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    I'm gonna start a thread about this....

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    Hi Everyone

    Interested to know your views on this one. Should they become co-educational or is there still a place for them? Obviously this issue is close to my heart so I'd love to hear your opinions, especially if you're at Oxbridge or applying this year.

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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    Look, if we were building a university from scratch we would not begin here, but women's colleges exist now and provide an important point of access for women from all cultures and backgrounds in which they can thrive academically. Creating a college for ethnic minorities would be ridiculous because it would be segregating rather than integrating, but the gender issue is unique. I personally feel much more comfortable, relaxed and academically confident on a singel sex environment, not because I cannot relate to men, but because I sometimes find their attitude and presence intimidating and I prefer a single sex environment.

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    Look, the arguments you have used to support your case would apply just as well to ethnic minorities. Frankly, I do not see why the gender issue is 'unique'. I could, for instance claim that "I personally feel much more comfortable, relaxed and academically confident on single ethnic environment, not because I cannot relate to others, but because I sometimes find their attitude and presence intimidating". That's just quoting you, with one critical alteration. Why would a college for ethnic minorities segragate them any more than a single sex college would segregate women? You could claim that segregation is not what happens at a single sex college, for which I could say there's no reason to assume that's what would happen with a college for the ethnic minorities. So, what are the differences?
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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    women's colleges exist now and provide an important point of access for women from all cultures and backgrounds
    but st hilda's gets essentially no applications by choice, something like 0.2 apps/place in some subjects.
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    Look, the arguments you have used to support your case would apply just as well to ethnic minorities. Frankly, I do not see why the gender issue is 'unique'. I could, for instance claim that "I personally feel much more comfortable, relaxed and academically confident on single ethnic environment, not because I cannot relate to others, but because I sometimes find their attitude and presence intimidating". That's just quoting you, with one critical alteration. Why would a college for ethnic minorities segragate them any more than a single sex college would segregate women? You could claim that segregation is not what happens at a single sex college, for which I could say there's no reason to assume that's what would happen with a college for the ethnic minorities. So, what are the differences?
    Because gender is a fundamental difference which separates people at an academic level and affects the way people learn. The teaching and academic environment in women's colleges can be tailored to women's educational needs which is especially important given that the Oxbridge teaching methods tend to favour men. Withou Hilda's, Newnham et al the ratios of men to women at all levels across both universities would be more abysmal than they already are. Yes, ratios of whites to ethnic minorities across the universities are also abysmal but ethnic minorities are not so distinct from white Europeans in their learning and social needs and there is not such a huge and marked difference in their academic performance. Also women's colleges in many ways cater for ethnic minorities because access to Oxbridge would be barred for many women from strict religious and certain cultural backgrounds. Access for ethnic minorities is something which I believe should be worked on through access intitiatives, not through the foundation of new colleges devoted to their education because this would only further enforce prejudices against them and lead to accusations of racism. Women's colleges already exist, they have proven that they do a good job in protecting opportunities for women at all levels at Oxbridge, and have done so for over 100 years. To get rid of them now would just reinforce the problems women face at Oxbridge and evidence suggests that the ratios of men to women would certainly drop, as they did in 1994 when Somerville went co-educational.

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    (Original post by llama boy)
    but st hilda's gets essentially no applications by choice, something like 0.2 apps/place in some subjects.
    There is at least one other Oxford college which regularly gets fewer applications that St Hilda's. I applied there directly and I know many more people who did, but instead of promoting the college for what it is and the unique opportunities it can offer women, the governing body have instead decided to further perpetuate the uncertainty about our future.

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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    There is at least one other Oxford college which regularly gets fewer applications that St Hilda's.
    Harris Manchester? Not really a fair comparison, is it?

    I applied there directly and I know many more people who did, but instead of promoting the college for what it is and the unique opportunities it can offer women, the governing body have instead decided to further perpetuate the uncertainty about our future.
    Are you arguing that the reason Hildas doesn't get many applications is because it might change from being single sex, rather than because it currently is?

    Coz, on the surface, that doesn't sound like a particularly strong argument.
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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    Because gender is a fundamental difference which separates people at an academic level and affects the way people learn.
    The teaching and academic environment in women's colleges can be tailored to women's educational needs which is especially important given that the Oxbridge teaching methods tend to favour men.

    Perhaps, although certainly not to a greater extent than ethnicity/culture. Consider many of the arguments against I.Q. testing, of cultural biases. This is true across the board, one could argue. Besides, many ethnic minorities underachieve, whereas women on the whole overachieve.

    Withou Hilda's, Newnham et al the ratios of men to women at all levels across both universities would be more abysmal than they already are. Yes, ratios of whites to ethnic minorities across the universities are also abysmal but ethnic minorities are not so distinct from white Europeans in their learning and social needs and there is not such a huge and marked difference in their academic performance.

    The first claim is probably true. Although, the interesting question is why? Difficult to be sure, there are people who would argue that it's because the all female colleges are used to 'balance things out', i.e. positive discrimination. As for your latter remark, that's factually incorrect. Academic performance across the minorities is CONSIDERABLY lower. The Indians and the Chinese do better than white Europeans. However, for every other ethnic group, the percentage of people passing GCSE are a hell of a lot lower than the national average.

    Also women's colleges in many ways cater for ethnic minorities because access to Oxbridge would be barred for many women from strict religious and certain cultural backgrounds. Access for ethnic minorities is something which I believe should be worked on through access intitiatives, not through the foundation of new colleges devoted to their education because this would only further enforce prejudices against them and lead to accusations of racism.

    I feel access for ethnic minorities ought to be addressed through community leaders themselves emphasising the positives of a good education. Also, through providing better schooling for those in deprived areas, rather than any alteration being made to university admissions. That, to borrow a phrase, would be to put a bandage on a broken limb.


    Women's colleges already exist, they have proven that they do a good job in protecting opportunities for women at all levels at Oxbridge, and have done so for over 100 years. To get rid of them now would just reinforce the problems women face at Oxbridge and evidence suggests that the ratios of men to women would certainly drop, as they did in 1994 when Somerville went co-educational.

    That's just the numbers argument. The same argument would work for the ethnic minorities. I have absolutely no doubt that the number of students from the ethnic minorities could easily be raised via an exclusive college for them. That would work for any group in society.

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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    Hi Everyone

    Interested to know your views on this one. Should they become co-educational or is there still a place for them? Obviously this issue is close to my heart so I'd love to hear your opinions, especially if you're at Oxbridge or applying this year.

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    The gd things:
    - Offers the opportunity of university for those from cultural/religious backgrounds who wouldn't normally permit it
    - Provides an environment people are fond of

    The bad:
    - Terrible negative resultant stereotyping as "hildabeasts"
    - Jools getting kicked out of the JCR due to the controversy
 
 
 
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