Women's Oxbridge Colleges

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*~Sarah~*
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#21
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#21
there are some positive reason for them staying single sex, but all in all I think coed is the way to go. Very few applicants applyto these colleges, and for females who apply to oxbridge with no particular college preference, an open application willl almost definitely land them with an all female college. Also, I'm not convinced that having an all female college is particularly conducive to equality.
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not1
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#22
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its not fair on the men as its much easier to get into an all-women college than it is to a co-ed one.
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*~Sarah~*
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#23
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#23
(Original post by edders)
its not fair on the men as its much easier to get into an all-women college than it is to a co-ed one.

I'm not sure how well that stands up as an argument - the universities are still very much male-dominated.
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not1
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#24
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#24
(Original post by *~Sarah~*)
I'm not sure how well that stands up as an argument - the universities are still very much male-dominated.
try looking in the back of the oxford prospectus for the application figures to see what i mean
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DanMushMan
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#25
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could a mod move some of the posts which started this from the 'girton' thread to here.
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not1
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#26
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(Original post by DanMushMan)
could a mod move some of the posts which started this from the 'girton' thread to here.
job's a good 'un
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DanMushMan
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#27
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#27
(Original post by edders)
job's a good 'un
funky
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not1
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#28
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#28
(Original post by DanMushMan)
funky
back to the issue at hand, yeah i think its not fair on the men. why should women be able to go to oxford without the effort men and other women put in applying to competitive coed colleges?
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lala
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#29
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#29
(Original post by edders)
back to the issue at hand, yeah i think its not fair on the men. why should women be able to go to oxford without the effort men and other women put in applying to competitive coed colleges?
Men have a better chance of getting in anyway Edders. I wouldnt lose too much sleep over the anti-male discrimination if I were you. It is the fact that mixed colleges are less likely to take women which is sexist, rather than the presence of a female only college, the latter actually alleviating some of the damage done by the former.
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JSM
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#30
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#30
(Original post by lala)
Men have a better chance of getting in anyway Edders. I wouldnt lose too much sleep over the anti-male discrimination if I were you. It is the fact that mixed colleges are less likely to take women which is sexist, rather than the presence of a female only college, the latter actually alleviating some of the damage done by the former.
However, the point still stands, all the single male colleges have been turned co educational, surely similar points about learning in seperate environments could be used to defend all makle colleges. The presence of an all female college is sexist.
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lala
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#31
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#31
(Original post by JSM)
However, the point still stands, all the single male colleges have been turned co educational, surely similar points about learning in seperate environments could be used to defend all makle colleges. The presence of an all female college is sexist.
They havent. There is still an all male option in Oxford, its called St Benets Hall. I dont have strong views either way on men only colleges, its not an issue I find so compelling.
To suggest that an all female college is sexist is to ignore the fact that it cleans up so much of the sexism in the applications process- men have a better chance of gaining entry to a mixed college, and St Hildas, New Hall thus raise the number of women to a more acceptable (though of course still scandalously low) level. That is in fact the only argument against all-women colleges which is really legitimate- that they cover up for a sexist admissions procedure in the rest of the university by bumping up the numbers of women. I can understand that one, but I don't agree with it.
The point ablut learning better in seperate environments is also much more pertininent to women. Not only were most colleges founded by men for men (and believe me, you can't half tell!) which means that men are far more likely to be in an environment designed for their needs, be it mixed or not, but also women do better academically in a single sex environment, whereas no such situation exists with the all male option available.
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Squirrel
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#32
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When applying I actually felt that the existance of St Hilda's was unfair on some female applicants. Since I was unable to specify that I was unprepared to go to a female only college I was worried that I could be allocated this as second choice and receive an offer only from there (which I would have turned down). Since the numbers of people applying to St Hilda's are so low the likelihood of this is increased.

I think if single-sex colleges do exist applicants should be able to specify whether or not they wish to be considered for them.

I have to agree though that it does seem unfair that single-sex colleges exist - particularly when they only exist for females (places like St Benets are PPHs and a completely different issue). If we believe that the ratio of women to men will decrease if St Hilda's is closed we are in effect accepting that some women are being accepted to St Hilda's who have performed less well at interview than some of the male applicants who are rejected by Oxford. While it may be that it is attitudes amongst tutors of what to expect from men and women at interview that need to be changed, it seems to me totally unacceptable that women who happen to have applied to or been allocated as a second or third choice to St Hilda's should be put at this apparent advantage just to even up the numbers.
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curryADD
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#33
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#33
(Original post by hildabeast)
Respect to Girton - first ever female Oxbridge college. Shame its now mixed though. All you Tabs support the OUSU/CUSU save women's colleges campaign by wearing a purple ribbon or else....

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of course...im thinking seriously about going to a womens college....(in the states) only 14% of women go to them, but 30% of the women in congress went to one....and 33% of women in top positions at fortune 100 companies went to a womens college. pretty big statistical jump!
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JSM
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#34
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#34
(Original post by lala)
They havent. There is still an all male option in Oxford, its called St Benets Hall. I dont have strong views either way on men only colleges, its not an issue I find so compelling.
To suggest that an all female college is sexist is to ignore the fact that it cleans up so much of the sexism in the applications process- men have a better chance of gaining entry to a mixed college, and St Hildas, New Hall thus raise the number of women to a more acceptable (though of course still scandalously low) level. That is in fact the only argument against all-women colleges which is really legitimate- that they cover up for a sexist admissions procedure in the rest of the university by bumping up the numbers of women. I can understand that one, but I don't agree with it.
The point ablut learning better in seperate environments is also much more pertininent to women. Not only were most colleges founded by men for men (and believe me, you can't half tell!) which means that men are far more likely to be in an environment designed for their needs, be it mixed or not, but also women do better academically in a single sex environment, whereas no such situation exists with the all male option available.
read squirrel and it is still sexist, affirmative action is sexist, sexism is disrcimination on the basis of gender, which is what it is. There are no proper all male colleges, so it sexist, I am sure many of the females who are protecting St Hildas would have been the first to complain about an all male college. SO women to better academically in a single sex environment, so do blokes. If you look at the A level/ GCSE results, boys do better at single sex schools than at mixed schools. FACT. So what if it cleans up the sexism in the application process, it is still sexist. Maybe they shoyuld try to get rid of the sexism in he applications process, if it really is there. So you would be in favour of quotas from backgrounds.
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*dave*
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#35
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#35
(Original post by hildabeast)
Without them the statistics would be abysmal. If you look higher up at SCR level only 6 out of 92 chemistry fellows in Oxford are women and 3 are at St Hilda's. Women's colleges are vital in protecting women's representation. Yes more should be done for women across the university but women's colleges should not be abolished until then. I don't know about Cambridge, but most years Hilda's girls get the highest results for women of out of all the colleges in the university. It is just because men on the whole perform better because the system favours them that the results do not look too good on the Norrington Table.

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The 'system favours them' ???

Maybe the 'oxbridge exams' system favours men, but GCSEs and A-Levels don't.

If you reply to this and say that 'girls just do better at GCSE and A-Level' ... then you are just asking for the counter saying 'well boys do better at uni'.
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GH
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#36
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#36
(Original post by *dave*)
The 'system favours them' ???

Maybe the 'oxbridge exams' system favours men, but GCSEs and A-Levels don't.

If you reply to this and say that 'girls just do better at GCSE and A-Level' ... then you are just asking for the counter saying 'well boys do better at uni'.
Don't biys do better in exams than girls?
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lala
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#37
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#37
(Original post by JSM)
read squirrel and it is still sexist, affirmative action is sexist, sexism is disrcimination on the basis of gender, which is what it is. There are no proper all male colleges, so it sexist, I am sure many of the females who are protecting St Hildas would have been the first to complain about an all male college. SO women to better academically in a single sex environment, so do blokes. If you look at the A level/ GCSE results, boys do better at single sex schools than at mixed schools. FACT. So what if it cleans up the sexism in the application process, it is still sexist. Maybe they shoyuld try to get rid of the sexism in he applications process, if it really is there. So you would be in favour of quotas from backgrounds.
Didnt say anything about quotas. Dont put words into my mouth.
The fact that squirrel says something doesnt mean its true (no disrespect to her intended) so I fail to see what you mean by the statement "read squirrel and it is still sexist".
Evidence for your assertion that those who support womens only colleges wouldnt agree with all male ones?
I have heard that actually men did not do better in single sex university environments, wasnt that one of the reasons why Peterhouse went mixed? (anyone form there know any stats please). That would make sense, it would explain why the mens colleges went mixed (though not why most of the womens did).
I've said this several times but it looks like I'm going to have to say it again. Womens only colleges alleviate sexism, not perpetrate it. The discrimination on the basis of gender occurs when women are less likely to get a place at Oxbridge then a man full stop, even with the presence of all female colleges. The fact that you have written "so what if it cleans up the applications process" doesnt make me take you any more seriously either, tbh it makes you seem like you dont regard the heightened difficulties women face when applying as a relevant issue, which is a shame. Though of course you are right in saying that they should try and get rid of the sexism in the applications process. But whilst it is still endemic, it will continue to provide the compelling motivation for women only colleges that it currently does.
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lala
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#38
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#38
(Original post by *dave*)
The 'system favours them' ???

Maybe the 'oxbridge exams' system favours men, but GCSEs and A-Levels don't.

If you reply to this and say that 'girls just do better at GCSE and A-Level' ... then you are just asking for the counter saying 'well boys do better at uni'.
I think the fact that girls do better at A-level and GCSE but are still less likely to have a successful Oxbridge application is pretty significant in itself, dont you?
For the record, the point about men doing better at university is incorrect. They get more firsts, but also more thirds and also fails I think (not sure about that last one though). Women are more likely to get seconds, while men dominate both extremes.
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curryADD
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#39
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#39
(Original post by lala)
I think the fact that girls do better at A-level and GCSE but are still less likely to have a successful Oxbridge application is pretty significant in itself, dont you?
For the record, the point about men doing better at university is incorrect. They get more firsts, but also more thirds and also fails I think (not sure about that last one though). Women are more likely to get seconds, while men dominate both extremes.
women are often discriminated against in primary education subconciously by the teachers....womens colleges are for reversing that and giving girls "girl power" and confidence...
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GH
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#40
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#40
(Original post by curryADD)
women are often discriminated against in primary education subconciously by the teachers....womens colleges are for reversing that and giving girls "girl power" and confidence...
Isnt there 7 "sister" colleges? Like all women colleges? It was in the simpsons.
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