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There were no secrets between MI5 and FRU watch

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    EXPOSE POINTS FINGER AT BRITS IN N. IRELAND MURDERS An expose on the British television program
    Panorama has laid bare the collusion between the British Army/RUC and loyalist paramilitaries in
    numerous killings in Northern Ireland by loyalists including the high profile murder of Pat
    Finucane in 1989.

    MI5, Military Intelligence and Special Branch all withheld information from investigations into the
    murder of the Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane, the broadcast last night.. The BBC program also named
    a senior Ulster Defense Association (UDA) paramilitary, Jim Spence, as the man who ordered the death
    of the Belfast solicitor in February 1989, with the encouragement of an RUC special branch officer
    who also helped the murder gang to escape. The UDA man Ken Barrett, allegedly one of the two gunmen
    who shot Finucane in front of his family in their north Belfast home, claimed that the loyalist
    godfather Spence, now 41, commissioned but did not carry out the murder.

    "He [ Spence] would have arranged, if you know what I mean, or set it up, but he wasn't actually
    involved in the actual end product," said Barrett, whom the Panorama team secretly recorded without
    his knowledge. Secret army files only recently discovered record that it was Spence who suggested
    attacking Finucane. Panorama claims MI5 had direct access to all these documents on a daily basis,
    including the crucial intelligence that a police officer colluded in the murder.

    This claim was backed up by a former soldier of the army's undercover force research unit (FRU), who
    uses the pseudonym Martin Ingram. He said yesterday that M15 had unlimited access to all FRU files.
    "The M15 officer sat opposite the FRU's operations officer at the unit's headquarters, face to face
    with the files down the middle," he said. "All the reports came through to headquarters. There were
    no secrets between MI5 and FRU, they knew everything."

    Military intelligence is also accused of failing to pass on to police information about an impending
    attack on a Belfast Catholic, Gerard Slane, who was shot dead by loyalists

    A former RUC Detective-Sergeant Johnston Brown described on the program being warned by a Special
    Branch officer to stay away from the twelve year long inquiry by Sir John Stevens, who is now
    commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, exploring allegation that shadowy elements within military
    intelligence and the RUC Special Branch were colluding with loyalist assassination squads. Brown
    said he was told: "You walked into the offices of English detectives and you spoke about us, and you
    think there's no comeback, you think there's no retribution?"

    Hundreds of relatives of those murdered or seriously injured as a result of state-sponsored violence
    gathered today to relive their experiences for the press and to call for an independent
    international inquiry into the arming, controlling and directing of loyalist terrorist organizations
    by the British Government.

    "Relatives for Justice (RFJ) believes that today's press conference is probably one of the single
    most important opportunities over those years in which we can collectively advance the cause for
    truth and tell the world what has been happening in our country - that effectively, the British
    government has colluded with loyalists to murder its own citizens," said RFJ director Mark Thompson.

    He went on to say, "The gravity of this situation should not be dealt with by internal police
    investigations nor by investigative television documentaries drip feeding information but by a full
    independent international judicial inquiry into the arming, controlling, and directing of loyalist
    death squads by the British Government."

    The group claims that revelations regarding covert actions by MI5 and the Force Research Unit in two
    BBC Panorama programs represent the tip of the iceberg.

    Sources: Andersonstown News Group, Irish American Information Service, Independent (UK), Guardian

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OreadDaily

    U talk like someone gives a F***.... we don't!

    <[email protected] m> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    [q1]> EXPOSE POINTS FINGER AT BRITS IN N. IRELAND MURDERS An expose on the British television program[/q1]
    [q1]> Panorama has laid bare the collusion between the British Army/RUC and loyalist paramilitaries in[/q1]
    [q1]> numerous killings in Northern Ireland by loyalists including the high profile murder of Pat[/q1]
    [q1]> Finucane in 1989.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> MI5, Military Intelligence and Special Branch all withheld information from investigations into[/q1]
    [q1]> the murder of the Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane, the broadcast last night.. The BBC program also[/q1]
    [q1]> named a senior Ulster Defense Association (UDA) paramilitary, Jim Spence, as the man who ordered[/q1]
    [q1]> the death of the Belfast solicitor in February 1989, with the encouragement of an RUC special[/q1]
    [q1]> branch officer who also helped the murder gang to escape. The UDA man Ken Barrett, allegedly one[/q1]
    [q1]> of the two gunmen who shot Finucane in front of his family in their north Belfast home, claimed[/q1]
    [q1]> that the loyalist godfather Spence, now 41, commissioned but did not carry out the murder.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> "He [ Spence] would have arranged, if you know what I mean, or set it up, but he wasn't actually[/q1]
    [q1]> involved in the actual end product," said Barrett, whom the Panorama team secretly recorded[/q1]
    [q1]> without his knowledge. Secret army files only recently discovered record that it was Spence who[/q1]
    [q1]> suggested attacking Finucane. Panorama claims MI5 had direct access to all these documents on a[/q1]
    [q1]> daily basis, including the crucial intelligence that a police officer colluded in the murder.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> This claim was backed up by a former soldier of the army's undercover force research unit (FRU),[/q1]
    [q1]> who uses the pseudonym Martin Ingram. He said yesterday that M15 had unlimited access to all FRU[/q1]
    [q1]> files. "The M15 officer sat opposite the FRU's operations officer at the unit's headquarters, face[/q1]
    [q1]> to face with the files down the middle," he said. "All the reports came through to headquarters.[/q1]
    [q1]> There were no secrets between MI5 and FRU, they knew everything."[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> Military intelligence is also accused of failing to pass on to police information about an[/q1]
    [q1]> impending attack on a Belfast Catholic, Gerard Slane, who was shot dead by loyalists[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> A former RUC Detective-Sergeant Johnston Brown described on the program being warned by a Special[/q1]
    [q1]> Branch officer to stay away from the twelve year long inquiry by Sir John Stevens, who is now[/q1]
    [q1]> commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, exploring allegation that shadowy elements within[/q1]
    [q1]> military intelligence and the RUC Special Branch were colluding with loyalist assassination[/q1]
    [q1]> squads. Brown said he was told: "You walked into the offices of English detectives and you spoke[/q1]
    [q1]> about us, and you think there's no comeback, you think there's no retribution?"[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> Hundreds of relatives of those murdered or seriously injured as a result of state-sponsored[/q1]
    [q1]> violence gathered today to relive their experiences for the press and to call for an independent[/q1]
    [q1]> international inquiry into the arming, controlling and directing of loyalist terrorist[/q1]
    [q1]> organizations by the British Government.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> "Relatives for Justice (RFJ) believes that today's press conference is probably one of the single[/q1]
    [q1]> most important opportunities over those years in which we can collectively advance the cause for[/q1]
    [q1]> truth and tell the world what has been happening in our country - that effectively, the British[/q1]
    [q1]> government has colluded with loyalists to murder its own citizens," said RFJ director Mark[/q1]
    [q1]> Thompson.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> He went on to say, "The gravity of this situation should not be dealt with by internal police[/q1]
    [q1]> investigations nor by investigative television documentaries drip feeding information but by a[/q1]
    [q1]> full independent international judicial inquiry into the arming, controlling, and directing of[/q1]
    [q1]> loyalist death squads by the British Government."[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> The group claims that revelations regarding covert actions by MI5 and the Force Research Unit in[/q1]
    [q1]> two BBC Panorama programs represent the tip of the iceberg.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> Sources: Andersonstown News Group, Irish American Information Service, Independent (UK), Guardian[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OreadDaily[/q1]

    A certain Very Wise, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :
    [q1]>U talk like someone gives a F***.... we don't![/q1]

    Schizophrenia runs at a high level in Northern Ireland, as SCI denizens can see from this post.
    --
    "I begin to suspect my own sanity every once in a while. " (LR Hubbard,"Coordination of Classes of
    Processes" 1 Nov 1956) Scientology/Dianetics : tax-exempt child abuse and neglect?
    www.taxexemptchildabuse.net

    this is quite dull too

    Arsecandle ([email protected]) wrote:
    [q1]> A certain Very Wise, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :[/q1]

    [q2]> >U talk like someone gives a F***.... we don't![/q2]

    [q1]> Schizophrenia runs at a high level in Northern Ireland, as SCI denizens can see from this post.[/q1]

    The interesting thing is that "Very Wise" posts in a Carlinesque way to alt.uk.a-levels, albeit from
    a Muslim point of view rather than an Irish Republican one.

    Matthew Huntbach

    In article <[email protected] >, [email protected] says...
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>Arsecandle ([email protected]) wrote:[/q1]
    [q2]>> A certain Very Wise, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]>> >U talk like someone gives a F***.... we don't![/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]>> Schizophrenia runs at a high level in Northern Ireland, as SCI denizens can see from this post.[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>The interesting thing is that "Very Wise" posts in a Carlinesque way to alt.uk.a-levels, albeit[/q1]
    [q1]>from a Muslim point of view rather than an Irish Republican one.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>Matthew Huntbach[/q1]

    "Does not that operation reveal an alarming state of affairs--a conspiracy whereby South Africa has
    supplied so-called Loyalists with lethal weapons for use in terrorist actions in Ulster in quest of
    access to information, replicas and models of British missiles? In view of a succession of
    successful burglaries at Shorts, can the right hon. and learned Gentleman guarantee the security of
    the Starstreak missile in particular, as well as Javelin and Blowpipe? Is it not a fact that weapons
    supplied by South Africa as part of this bloodstained deal have already been responsible for the
    deaths of innocent people in Northern Ireland and that grenades supplied by South Africa have been
    thrown at the police in Northern Ireland? In the knowledge of the fact that South Africans have
    supplied arms for murder in Northern Ireland, did the Forein Secretary raise this act of aggression
    when he met the South African Foreign Minister last month? Did the Prime Minister do so when she met
    that same Minister this month?"

    http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk

    A British FRU agent was sent to arrange the details of the arms shipments. I tend to avoid kafkaeque
    articles for the most part. I would advise you to follow my humble example if you are able to do so.
    I have Catholic perspectives my friend. I am very much the cricket playing West Briton. My
    arithmetic is also much better than your own stab at the same simplicity.

    Did you know that the guns the UDA were supplied by the FRU agent Brian Nelson were sold to Armscor
    in South Africa by the Israelis? The Israeli state was interested in any missile technology the UDA
    could offer from the starstreak project, as they are morons it was expected that they would simply
    steal a missile or its componts.

    Rebel with a confused cause Adair's loyalists (and his dog) support Israel while republicans back
    Palestinians. It doesn't make sense Northern Ireland - Observer special Henry McDonald Sunday May
    19, 2002 The Observer

    Israel has found a new ally in its war against Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority - Johnny
    Adair's dog. Rebel, Adair's pet Alsation, has become the latest member of the Ulster loyalist
    community to display support for Ariel Sharon's assault on the West Bank and Gaza. Last Monday
    afternoon the UDA commander's four-legged friend was seen being taken for a walk along Belfast's
    Shankill Road with the Star of David flag wrapped around its body. Rebel, a Zionist version of
    Superdog with his Israeli flag turned into a cape, was paraded along just days before his master was
    released from prison.

    http://www.observer.co.uk/nireland/s...718180,00.html

    I think I have spotted the misspelling of the expression 'Alsatian' in that reportage. I wonder if I
    can get the Guardian free for a week if i write to tell them?

    --
    Träume

    In article <[email protected] >, [email protected] says...
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>Arsecandle ([email protected]) wrote:[/q1]
    [q2]>> A certain Very Wise, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]>> >U talk like someone gives a F***.... we don't![/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]>> Schizophrenia runs at a high level in Northern Ireland, as SCI denizens can see from this post.[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>The interesting thing is that "Very Wise" posts in a Carlinesque way to alt.uk.a-levels, albeit[/q1]
    [q1]>from a Muslim point of view rather than an Irish Republican one.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>Matthew Huntbach[/q1]

    Were you hinting that somebody had 'Schizophrenia'? That is a liitle near the knuckle my friend, it
    was you who was having difficulty condemning the FRU as a terrorist agency and it was you who
    managed to underestimate the number of people killed by the UDA by a factor of four.

    I merely latched onto your evident discomfort and inability to condemn what the British authorities
    were doing. Others seized on the same opportunity. We could read your little mind. If there is a
    dual order of being in operation it is in your own double standards.

    --
    Träume

    Matthew Huntbach wrote:
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> Arsecandle ([email protected]) wrote:[/q1]
    [q2]> > A certain Very Wise, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q3]> > >U talk like someone gives a F***.... we don't![/q3]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]> > Schizophrenia runs at a high level in Northern Ireland, as SCI denizens can see from this post.[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> The interesting thing is that "Very Wise" posts in a Carlinesque way to alt.uk.a-levels, albeit[/q1]
    [q1]> from a Muslim point of view rather than an Irish Republican one.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> Matthew Huntbach[/q1]

    Dear Matthew,

    A very naughty post there Matthew, all you had to do was to post something along the lines of "our
    media in Britain is censored, the FRU were terrorists and I underestimated the UDA killing by a
    factor of four". You were prevaricating about what is and what is not mass murder. How many Irish
    students have you ever dealt with? Do you give them kafaesque lectures and insights? Do they have to
    swallow your mendacity to the same extent we have to do so on Usenet?

    In a civilized society deliberately murdering lots of civilians for whatever reason is frequently
    seen as mass murder. You simply needed to accept that without prevaricating. You could not bring
    yourself to properly concede that. You are a politician and that has to mean something. You engaged
    in equivocation and obfuscation because it was something you did not feel able to concede for
    whatever reason.

    "Crown collusion with loyalist paramilitaries was systematic, organised and sanctioned from the very
    top. The British didn't just recruit informers, or run agents within loyalist groups like the UDA;
    they organised, armed and directed countergangs that operated in parallel with regular Crown forces.
    In its determination to maintain partition, the British government developed a mechanism of state
    sponsored murder. Behind the mask of liberal democracy and the rule of law, the British state
    murdered citizens within their own jurisdiction."

    http://www.irlnet.com/aprn/archive/2...14/14fin3.html

    And sure enough it all turns out to be perfectly true, in fact the extent has shocked just about
    everybody, the British were using death squads to murder their own citizens within the United
    Kingdom. They had been using death squads for years and years.

    Revealed: British Army ran UDA death squads Documents prove British government sanctioned murders By
    Laura Friel

    "A secret unit of the British Army directed loyalist death squad attacks against Irish Republicans
    and nationalists in what the British media have dubbed `assassination by proxy'."

    http://www.irlnet.com/aprn/archive/1...02/02nels.html

    by Ed Moloney, Sunday Tribune

    "As the RUC carried out Peter Mandelson's orders last Tuesday to arrest Johnny Adair and return him
    to jail the very air seemed to bristle with outrage and indignation at the damage to the peace
    process that this so-called paramilitary "mad dog" and his Shankill Road colleagues in 'C' Company,
    2nd Battalion, Ulster Freedom Fighters could inflict.

    Mandelson's angry words begged a number of questions: What were these "old style" paramilitary
    methods, just who did create Johnny Adair's "mafia culture" and what does the "dark side" of
    Northern Ireland society really look like? To answer these questions, to put Mandelson's attitude to
    the Shankill UDA into proper context, one must journey back in time over ten years to the late
    1980's when Johnny Adair was just an apprentice gunman in 'C' Company slowly hacking his way to the
    top. Johnny had a tough act to follow.

    'C' Company killed Pat Finucane (some of those who pulled the trigger could be seen sporting with
    Adair on the Shankill last week and at Drumcree in July) and almost killed Belfast councillor Alex
    Maskey. Thanks to military documents unearthed by BBC journalist John Ware and revelations by former
    FRU members and ex-UDA personnel we now know that FRU was working 'C' Company like the accelerator
    pedal in a deadly armoured car."

    http://www.relativesforjustice.com/p...ankill_uda.htm

    I am accusing you of being a hypocrite Matthew, I don't need to stoop to your level. You were
    ostracized from SCI because you couldn't call a spade a spade. The British had to govern Northern
    Ireland with death squads and whether the IRA put in an appearance or not was irrelevant to the
    agenda of the security forces, they had been in bed with right wing terrorists since the 1960's at a
    time the IRA had ceased to exist as an army.

    The Irish News, Front Page, Thursday, June 20, Main Headline - "Finucane: pressure mounts for
    full inquiry"

    'Speaking after the broadcast. Mrs Finucane said it was difficult to think of anything more serious
    than to accuse a government of "systematically murdering its own citizens as a matter of policy"'

    Can you find one one human rights agency on the face of this planet which is of the opinion that
    Britain did not use death squads to govern part of the United Kingdom? There is a major streak of
    racism in the way Britain is run isn't that right? Britain puts different values on different
    peoples and races as a factor of its culture, do you agree? The murdered Irish people and children
    were simply lesser beings in other words.

    Gregory
 
 
 
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