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Reply 40
benwellsday
x max and min values should occur at dx/dt = 0, i.e. v = 0. I get x0 x_0 and \infty for the first, and x1 x_1 and 12x1 \frac{1}{2} x_1 for the second if you want to check.


cheers i think i get it now, did you mean 13x1 \frac{1}{3} x_1 for the min of the second part, or is it as you said 12x1 \frac{1}{2} x_1 . i might've done an earlier part wrong though.

benwellsday

Using that information I could make a guess on the orbits, the first being either parabolic or hyperbolic, and the second being elliptic (or a circle if it's a special case).


ok, do u see a way of how we can guess the orbits from the speed formulaes. i'm guessing that's what they expect us to do, in the way that the quesiton ordered, but i can't see how!
Students on campus at the University of Warwick
University of Warwick
Coventry
hiddengem
cheers i think i get it now, did you mean 13x1 \frac{1}{3} x_1 for the min of the second part, or is it as you said 12x1 \frac{1}{2} x_1 . i might've done an earlier part wrong though.



ok, do u see a way of how we can guess the orbits from the speed formulaes. i'm guessing that's what they expect us to do, in the way that the quesiton ordered, but i can't see how!

I get 12x1 \frac{1}{2} x_1 but my velocity function might be wrong. I did 12mv2=ΔU(x) \frac{1}{2}mv^2 = - \Delta U(x) and U(x1)=2αx12 U(x_1) = -\frac{2\alpha}{x_1 ^2} , which if you miss that then you can get 13x1 \frac{1}{3} x_1 .
You could check by substituting x = x1 and seeing if you get 0.
Reply 42
benwellsday
I get 12x1 \frac{1}{2} x_1 but my velocity function might be wrong. I did 12mv2=ΔU(x) \frac{1}{2}mv^2 = - \Delta U(x) and U(x1)=2αx12 U(x_1) = -\frac{2\alpha}{x_1 ^2} , which if you miss that then you can get 13x1 \frac{1}{3} x_1 .
You could check by substituting x = x1 and seeing if you get 0.


wow, i got different, i got 2αmx12((x1x)23x1x) \sqrt{\frac{2\alpha}{m{x_1^2}}({(\frac{x_1}{x})^2}-\frac{3x_1}{x})}

yeah i didn't sub in U(x1)U(x_1) like you did, i thought it would be simple and just a replica of the method we had to do for the first part for x0x_0.
hiddengem
wow, i got different, i got 2αmx12((x1x)23x1x) \sqrt{\frac{2\alpha}{m{x_1^2}}({(\frac{x_1}{x})^2}-\frac{3x_1}{x})}

yeah i didn't sub in U(x1)U(x_1) like you did, i thought it would be simple and just a replica of the method we had to do for the first part for x0x_0.

Yeah that's exactly what you get if you ignore the U(x1) bit in mine. Technically it is the same as the first method, but in that method the initial potential energy is 0. It's kind of like conservation of energy, the potential energy is transferred to kinetic, so the change in potential is equal to the change in kinetic.
Reply 44
benwellsday
Yeah that's exactly what you get if you ignore the U(x1) bit in mine. Technically it is the same as the first method, but in that method the initial potential energy is 0. It's kind of like conservation of energy, the potential energy is transferred to kinetic, so the change in potential is equal to the change in kinetic.


oh, i get it, ur right. i was thinking of the question as start again with the new value, instead of relating it to the one before. I get it, thanks mate.

have u got any difficulties with the 2004-05 paper, some parts aren't very nice, a paper better off lost in my view lol.

for 2b) wat are the velocities after the collsiion, i can fudge it to get the answer but my working is wrong.(by letting the velocities just being the angles), but this isn't right. Anyone have any ideas?

thanks
Reply 45
Anyone got any idea why my 'Access is denied' for the 2004/05 and the 2003/04 past papers on the past exam papers site?
Reply 46
AEsp
Anyone got any idea why my 'Access is denied' for the 2004/05 and the 2003/04 past papers on the past exam papers site?

see aforementioned link for 2004/2005. which i founds :smile:
Reply 47
Dont suppose you saved it at all? The page doesnt exist apparently
Reply 48
has anyone done question 3b) on the 2005 paper, because i don't have a clue.

a belt drives the circumference of a cylindrical wheel of radius R and mass M with no slipping. The tension in the belt is T. Friction in the wheel bearing causes an effective torque N to act on the wheel.
i) if the velocity of the belt is constant, what is T in terms of N.
ii) the bearing is lubricated removing all significant friction and the velocity of the belt then increases with uniform acceleration a. write down T in terms of M, R and a.

[hint:]
AEsp
Dont suppose you saved it at all? The page doesnt exist apparently

I screwed up the link, I copied a truncated version so it didn't work :rolleyes:
This should work http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/physics/teach/module_home/px132/2005/px132-exam-2004-05.pdf
brooker
has anyone done question 3b) on the 2005 paper, because i don't have a clue.

a belt drives the circumference of a cylindrical wheel of radius R and mass M with no slipping. The tension in the belt is T. Friction in the wheel bearing causes an effective torque N to act on the wheel.
i) if the velocity of the belt is constant, what is T in terms of N.
ii) the bearing is lubricated removing all significant friction and the velocity of the belt then increases with uniform acceleration a. write down T in terms of M, R and a.

[hint:]


I'm attempting this paper at the moment, it's horrible, 2 full questions of the parts of mechanics I don't like. Here's what I've written for i) and ii) although it might be a load of rubbish since it's based on intuiton more than knowledge.

(i) Velocity is constant, acceleration is 0, hence angular acceleration is 0, hence the sum of torques is 0, N is one torque, and the other depends how you draw it. If the belt is just a horizontal belt rolling over the top then you get the torque due to tension to be RT. If the belt wraps around it (this seems more likely, conveyor belt type thing) then there's a torque on each end so you get 2RT.
Sum of torques = 2RT + N = 0 implies T = - N / 2R
(ii) Sum of torques is now 2RT as N is gone (I think :confused: ) and a formula tells you that
Στ=Iα \Sigma \tau = I \alpha
and another says α=aR \alpha = \frac{a}{R}
Rearrange and use the formula for I to get
T=14Ma T = \frac{1}{4}Ma
I'm not very sure on this as it asks in terms of M, a and R, which suggests R is neccesary.

My turn for questions from 2005, for 3a) do you get r0mv r_0 m v
EDIT:- I thought we had to prove the trajectories in Q2, but they're given...oops...
Reply 51
i did get r_0mv for 3a)

for 2b) let the velocity of the particle of mass m after the collision be v_1 and the velocity of the particle of mass km after the collision be v_2 i got the following 3 equations

by conservation of momentum mu + kmu = mv_1 + kmv_2

by resolving momentum in the x direction and y direction respectively gives mu = 1/root2 [mv_1 + kmv_2]
and kmu = 1/root2 [mv_1 - mv_2]

(note because the collision is elastic kinetic energy is conserved which could give you another equation if necessary)

use equations 1 and 2 sub root2 [mu] = mv_1 + kmv_2 and you get k = root2 -1 as required
brooker
i did get r_0mv for 3a)

for 2b) let the velocity of the particle of mass m after the collision be v_1 and the velocity of the particle of mass km after the collision be v_2 i got the following 3 equations

by conservation of momentum mu + kmu = mv_1 + kmv_2

by resolving momentum in the x direction and y direction respectively gives mu = 1/root2 [mv_1 + kmv_2]
and kmu = 1/root2 [mv_1 - mv_2]

(note because the collision is elastic kinetic energy is conserved which could give you another equation if necessary)

use equations 1 and 2 sub root2 [mu] = mv_1 + kmv_2 and you get k = root2 -1 as required

Interesting, I used kinetic energy as well as these equations thinking it'd come out quite nicely and got a cubic equation which had k = 1, and k = root2 - 1 and k = -root2 - 1 as its solutions, which is alright since 0 < k < 1, but was a bit fiddly.

More questions for anyone that still comes here, Q3, 2006. It tells you that drag force is non-conservative. Why is this important? (I vaguely remember conservative vector fields being ones such that there exists a function whose gradient is the vector field function, and it made certain integrals easy. Does this screw up the work-energy theorem then where work is the change in kinetic energy?)
Some help with (a) and (b) would be nice...
Also, (d), P = Fv, is that all I need?
Reply 53
benwellsday
...
More questions for anyone that still comes here, Q3, 2006...


hey, i remeber discussing this question with aksan a while ago, look back to page 2 in this thread, i think.

i'm not sure what's up with the non-conservative thing.

A quick question off the 2004-05 paper, question 1c)
Which quantities are conserved in a system free from external forces and torques, and bound internally by a central inverse square law field.

what did you guys put for this???
hiddengem
hey, i remeber discussing this question with aksan a while ago, look back to page 2 in this thread, i think.

i'm not sure what's up with the non-conservative thing.

A quick question off the 2004-05 paper, question 1c)
Which quantities are conserved in a system free from external forces and torques, and bound internally by a central inverse square law field.

what did you guys put for this???

Thanks I'll check.

The inverse square law hints that you should think of gravity as an example. I put energy (all energy should be conserved to the system as far as I can tell. Thermal/Light energy radiated from the system is what's bugging me, but we never did anything like that in lectures...), momentum (always conserved so long as no body of mass leaves the system) and mass. I guess total net force and total net torque might be conserved too, since the only force is the inverse square law. Energy conservation could also be because the inverse square field is a conservative force field, somewhere in the notes he shows this so maybe thats what the question wants you to remember (and newton's 3rd law to prove conservation of momentum).
Reply 55
benwellsday
Thanks I'll check.

The inverse square law hints that you should think of gravity as an example. I put energy (all energy should be conserved to the system as far as I can tell. Thermal/Light energy radiated from the system is what's bugging me, but we never did anything like that in lectures...), momentum (always conserved so long as no body of mass leaves the system) and mass. I guess total net force and total net torque might be conserved too, since the only force is the inverse square law. Energy conservation could also be because the inverse square field is a conservative force field, somewhere in the notes he shows this so maybe thats what the question wants you to remember (and newton's 3rd law to prove conservation of momentum).


k, cheers for that.

someone said a while back( i think one of the older years), that whatever the lecturer dude messed up in lectures, was likely to come up. anyone remember any mistakes he made?
Reply 56
Frustration.
For the 2007-2008 paper question 1c) how do you get v_tan = 0.63m/s?

Because v_tan = rw where r = 0.25m and at t=0.2s, w = 0.4rev/s (from part a) therefore shouldnt:

v_tan = 0.25*0.4 = 0.1m/s ?

EDIT: Im so stupid v_tan = 0.1rev/s = 0.1*2pi m/s = 0.63 m/s
Reply 57
AEsp
Frustration.
For the 2007-2008 paper question 1c) how do you get v_tan = 0.63m/s?

Because v_tan = rw where r = 0.25m and at t=0.2s, w = 0.4rev/s (from part a) therefore shouldnt:

v_tan = 0.25*0.4 = 0.1m/s ?

EDIT: Im so stupid v_tan = 0.1rev/s = 0.1*2pi m/s = 0.63 m/s

For part (e) in the answers they seem to be using the angular speed in rev/s instead of rad/s though :eek3:
What kind of sick twisted physicist uses revolutions per second over radians per second?
Reply 59
benwellsday
What kind of sick twisted physicist uses revolutions per second over radians per second?

well, for a start let's not forget they ARE physicists.

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