School uniform and ear rings Watch

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Dave
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On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 15:05:54 +0100, Witchee Poo <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>Expect your aggression? You have snipped your attack. Not surprisingly.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> >This gave me a real laugh. You obviously have no life since you seem to spend 12 hours a[/q1]
[q1]> >day teaching better lessons than everyone else on this newsgorup and another 12 hours a[/q1]
[q1]> >day posting messages on this newsgorup telling us about it.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Read it carefully. Do you really call that agression? You need spend a little less time planning
lessons and get out more.

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Dave
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Stjohn
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mark.norwood wrote in message ...
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Who said there were no toilets?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>I said there were no _staff_ toilets.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>No health and safety issue.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Does this mean that you share facilities with the children/pupils/students/visitors/SMT
and so forth?

StJohn
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Dave
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#63
On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 16:16:16 +0100, Witchee Poo <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Indeed! Not content with Sandi's response you came back for *more*. Nice.[/q1]

Lets face it Witchee you have added nothing constructive to this thread you have only thrown around
insults. You have done nothing but reduce the s/n ration in this newsgroup. Were any of your
comments on topic or perhaps you just like to stick your nose in.

I started my discussion in this thread by posting an article on why maths A-level is a better long
term bet for students than Drama. As yet neither yourself or Sandi has countered any of the
arguments contained in that article. Remove your nose from Sandi's arse and get back on topic.

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Dave
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User 1951
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On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:54:22 +0100, "Michael Saunby" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>I'm told it did happen the 1960s in Scunthorpe and perhaps other industrial towns dominated by[/q1]
[q1]>closed shop nationalised industry.[/q1]

Which schools in Scunthorpe? Were there any industrial tribunals? I am a little surprised that the
union allowed this to happen.

Incidentally I would have thought that the recent scandals involving Railtrack might just have
alerted some people to the results of privatisation.

OTOH Mcdonalds (to take an example at random) certainly have a "closed shop" - well it is closed to
union members in any case. It seems you are a little selective in your indignation.

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Mark.Norwood
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"StJohn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Does this mean that you share facilities with the children/pupils/students/visitors/SMT and[/q1]
[q1]> so forth?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

You got it in one.

--
mvn
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Amadis
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Dave wrote:

[q1]> Lets face it Witchee you have added nothing constructive to this thread you have only thrown[/q1]
[q1]> around insults. You have done nothing but reduce the s/n ration in this newsgroup. Were any of[/q1]
[q1]> your comments on topic or perhaps you just like to stick your nose in.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I started my discussion in this thread by posting an article on why maths A-level is a better long[/q1]
[q1]> term bet for students than Drama. As yet neither yourself or Sandi has countered any of the[/q1]
[q1]> arguments contained in that article. Remove your nose from Sandi's arse and get back on topic.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
I would guess that Drama students are likely to have good communication skills.

This contrasts with yourself who seems quite unable to.I suspect that you would have to deliver the
answer to a sum through a megaphone.
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Amadis
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Dave wrote:

[q1]> Lets face it Witchee you have added nothing constructive to this thread you have only thrown[/q1]
[q1]> around insults. You have done nothing but reduce the s/n ration in this newsgroup. Were any of[/q1]
[q1]> your comments on topic or perhaps you just like to stick your nose in.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I started my discussion in this thread by posting an article on why maths A-level is a better long[/q1]
[q1]> term bet for students than Drama. As yet neither yourself or Sandi has countered any of the[/q1]
[q1]> arguments contained in that article. Remove your nose from Sandi's arse and get back on topic.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
I would guess that Drama students are likely to have good communication skills.

This contrasts with yourself who seems quite unable to make a point. I suspect that you would have
to deliver the answer to a sum through a megaphone.
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User 1951
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On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 16:34:25 +0100, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>I started my discussion in this thread by posting an article on why maths A-level is a better long[/q1]
[q1]>term bet for students than Drama. As yet neither yourself or Sandi has countered any of the[/q1]
[q1]>arguments contained in that article. Remove your nose from Sandi's arse and get back on topic.[/q1]

Has it struck you that some students are more suited to A-level Maths and some more suited to Drama?
Or are you suggesting that a failed A level Maths is as much use as a pass at A level drama?

I thought we had all grown out of the "my subject is more important than yours" argument. It has
been accurately described by a media studies teacher of my acquaintance as the equivalent of a
"pissing contest"

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User 1951
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#69
On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:00:07 +0100, "Michael Saunby" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>I can't (or maybe won't) say.[/q1]

I can't say I am surprised. I will not follow up your other "interesting" examples.

I think your assertion that anyone got a socialist education in the UK is one which hinges on your
definition of socialist. Certainly many people were educated under the Wilson government. Rather
more under the Macmillan government. If do not know of any "reliable" comparison between the
results. OTOH I don't know of many who thought of Wilson as much of a socialist - he supported the
American war in Vietnam for example. The mass demonstrations of 1968 were as much against Wilson's
support for the war as against the American policy.
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Michael Saunby
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"User 1951" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:54:22 +0100, "Michael Saunby" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> >I'm told it did happen the 1960s in Scunthorpe and perhaps other[/q2]
industrial
[q2]> >towns dominated by closed shop nationalised industry.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Which schools in Scunthorpe? Were there any industrial tribunals? I am a little surprised that the[/q1]
[q1]> union allowed this to happen.[/q1]

I can't (or maybe won't) say. It's no longer relevant, none of those involved will be working
today. Things move on. I only mentioned it because of the implication that a socialist education
was a better one. Many in the UK received such an education, and went on to be the driving force
behind the excesses of the 80s. One possible reason for this is that one of the things that school
teachers often do very well is convince students that the last thing they want to be as adults is a
school teacher.

[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Incidentally I would have thought that the recent scandals involving Railtrack might just have[/q1]
[q1]> alerted some people to the results of privatisation.[/q1]

I suspect Railtrack was hurt more by poor management that privatisation. The net loss from the
nation to shareholders during the privatisation episode was what?

[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> OTOH Mcdonalds (to take an example at random) certainly have a "closed shop" - well it is closed[/q1]
[q1]> to union members in any case. It seems you are a little selective in your indignation.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Not at all. I haven't eaten in McDonalds for 20 years! I'm not anti union, just anti corruption.

The information about Scunthorpe was passed on to me by a relative who was aware of the situation at
the time. It was, in those days, a rather insignificant matter, the only reason it was mentioned was
because school governors were aware of the situation, and approved, and I'd recently been involved,
as a governor, in some interviews. Remember, we're talking of a time when politics graduates would
use fake CVs that claimed they had perhaps one o'level to get a job in a car factory in order to
join and progress within the trade union movement. Where power is to be found, and how to harness it
has changed much in the last 40 years. Now such folk join banks, etc. leaving unions for enlightened
humanitarians, for the most part.

Michael Saunby
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Bob Spowart
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User 1951 wrote in message <[email protected] .net>...
[q1]>On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 22:54:22 +0100, "Michael Saunby" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]>>I'm told it did happen the 1960s in Scunthorpe and perhaps other[/q2]
industrial
[q2]>>towns dominated by closed shop nationalised industry.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Which schools in Scunthorpe? Were there any industrial tribunals? I am a little surprised that the[/q1]
[q1]>union allowed this to happen.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
Didn't have Industrial Tribunals in the '60s. Anyway, provision of jobs exclusively to Labour Party
Members is well documented in places like Doncaster, Liverpool and Newcastle. As for the Unions,
they were the ones organising it!

[q1]>Incidentally I would have thought that the recent scandals involving Railtrack might just have[/q1]
[q1]>alerted some people to the results of privatisation.[/q1]

What, you mean the lies that Byers told about the confiscation of Railtrack? And before you jump
down my throat about not knowing what I am talking about, I started as a Fitter in the BR repair
shops in Eastleigh on demob from the Army in '80 and finished as an MS1 Technical Control Engineer
with Midland Main Line. BR certainly was not the paradise some people like to make it out to be.

[q1]>OTOH Mcdonalds (to take an example at random) certainly have a "closed shop" - well it is closed to[/q1]
[q1]>union members in any case. It seems you are a little selective in your indignation.[/q1]

Sacking someone for simple membership of a union is a fast track route to the Industrial Tribunal.
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Jo L
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"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:58:32 +0000 (UTC), "Jo L" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> >I don't see that I am earning 7 to 10% more as a Maths teacher with an A-Level and degree in[/q2]
[q2]> >Maths compared to other teachers in the school who didn't do Maths at A-Level!!! Although that is[/q2]
[q2]> >a good thing as we[/q2]
shouldn't
[q2]> >discriminate teacehrs pay like that! (although a rise for everyone would[/q2]
be
[q2]> >good!)[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> this is an average, so on average maths teachers should get more responsibility points,[/q1]
[q1]> recruitment and retention points or progress onto the leadership spine more often than say drama[/q1]
[q1]> teachers.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> --[/q1]
[q1]> Dave[/q1]

I get that, but then surely you have, as an individual, a better chance of getting some
responsibility points as a drama teacher, than as a maths teacher as there are more teachers per
post in maths than say drama - e.g one head of drama/dance for 2 (in total) dance drama staff, but
one head of maths per 8 maths teachers. But yes we have an ex-head of maths on the Leadership team,
but then THREE english teachers on the LT, and one ICT teacher (but he has to be as it is purely
post with responsibiity for ICT!)

Jo
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Michael Saunby
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"User 1951" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:00:07 +0100, "Michael Saunby" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> >I can't (or maybe won't) say.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I can't say I am surprised. I will not follow up your other "interesting" examples.[/q1]

Right oh Ms citizen number 1951, your choice. Bob explained the context very well. Any reasonably
honest person would accept that Thatcherism didn't emerge from a vacuum, there were some pretty
nasty things going on in many local councils across the UK, and nationalised industries that were
breaking records for loss making that would only be beaten by dot com insanity several decades
later. British Steel was the fist business in the world to lose 1 million pounds per day, and the
subsidy on UK coal has never been beaten by any EU subsidy for farming. Then again, we did produce
as much coal as the nation could eat.

However if you really want to take these matters further via your union, or the press, or whatever,
and don't wish to disclose your name and address in a newsgroup please send me a personal email, or
write to me at home - my home address is easily found via Google or similar. (Michael Saunby ...
Devon) But after that you're on your own, it's old news. Quite why you wish to make such a fuss
about this beats me though.

[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I think your assertion that anyone got a socialist education in the UK is one which hinges on your[/q1]
[q1]> definition of socialist. Certainly many people were educated under the Wilson government. Rather[/q1]
[q1]> more under the Macmillan government.[/q1]

Sure, and if you consider what their ages were, you've got the makings of the yuppies.

[q1]> If do not know of any "reliable" comparison between the results. OTOH I don't know of many who[/q1]
[q1]> thought of Wilson as much of a socialist - he supported the American war in Vietnam for example.[/q1]
[q1]> The mass demonstrations of 1968 were as much against Wilson's support for the war as against the[/q1]
[q1]> American policy.[/q1]

Sure but socialism is much more than CND (or should be), and few if any that voted for Labour, past
or present, actually wanted them to attempt to create a single party socialist state, or even single
party socialist town. Yet some of their members did try to do so. Anyway, it all goes to show that
power corrupts whether you're a socialist or not.

Wasn't this thread about ear rings? It's got very heavy, I can see lobes being damaged.

Michael Saunby
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Dave
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On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 16:06:29 +0000 (UTC), "Jo L" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>I get that, but then surely you have, as an individual, a better chance of getting some[/q1]
[q1]>responsibility points as a drama teacher, than as a maths teacher as there are more teachers per[/q1]
[q1]>post in maths than say drama - e.g one head of drama/dance for 2 (in total) dance drama staff, but[/q1]
[q1]>one head of maths per 8 maths teachers. But yes we have an ex-head of maths on the Leadership team,[/q1]
[q1]>but then THREE english teachers on the LT, and one ICT teacher (but he has to be as it is purely[/q1]
[q1]>post with responsibiity for ICT!)[/q1]

In my experience (Essex) if you want responsibility points in maths and don't mind moving schools
then they are practically being thrown at us at the moment. If you want to be a head of maths and
have maybe even only 5 years experience and don't mind working in a "challenging" school then the
job is as good as yours. Loads of maths ads recently have advertised R&R points and most a fair
proportion of maths teachers go on to serve in the SMT. Most drama posts advertised still get a
reasonable selection of candidates and movement between posts is a lot less common with head of
drama / head of creative arts jobs hard to come by.

Remember the research looked at outcomes - what people were really earning - to come to its
conclusions.

--
Dave
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Stjohn
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mark.norwood wrote in message ...
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>"StJohn" <[email protected]> wrote in message[/q1]
[q1]>news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>> Does this mean that you share facilities with the children/pupils/students/visitors/SMT and[/q2]
[q2]>> so forth?[/q2]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>You got it in one.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>--[/q1]

I don't think I'd be happy with that.

Am I mistaken in thinking that it's not allowed for staff and children to share the same toilets?

No! Even if it were allowed, I'd still not be happy.

StJohn
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Dave
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On Mon, 01 Jul 2002 05:49:17 GMT, [email protected] (User 1951) wrote:

[q1]>Has it struck you that some students are more suited to A-level Maths and some more suited to[/q1]
[q1]>Drama? Or are you suggesting that a failed A level Maths is as much use as a pass at A level drama?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

The initial article covered outcomes with weak students (defined as those getting an E).
I'll requote:

"People who had only scraped a pass in the subject still enjoyed a higher income in later life -
even the few who got a grade E earned 8% more than those who did not take maths"

So even a weak student benefits greatly. Obviously a some point students become so weak as to become
non-viable, but on this evidence even those failing may have large measurable long term benefits.

The article did not quote outcomes for drama but did note that no positive returns were found for
science or language A-levels.

Also I would argue that allowing students to choose easy courses is doing them a disservice and
forcing them to think differently in at least one of their A-level subjects is "a good thing".
Someone doing maths + physics should do some essay writing IMHO and vice-versa.

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Dave
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Dave
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On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 17:12:45 +0000 (UTC), amadis <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>This contrasts with yourself who seems quite unable to make a point. I suspect that you would have[/q1]
[q1]>to deliver the answer to a sum through a megaphone.[/q1]

Yes in maths we do "sums" all day.

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Dave
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Dave
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On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:27:27 +0100, Witchee Poo <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>I will sit on the fence, if *you* don't mind.[/q1]

Simple question. What have *you* added to this discussion?

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Dave
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User 1951
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On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:06:08 +0100, "Bob Spowart" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>Didn't have Industrial Tribunals in the '60s. Anyway, provision of jobs exclusively to Labour Party[/q1]
[q1]>Members is well documented in places like Doncaster, Liverpool and Newcastle. As for the Unions,[/q1]
[q1]>they were the ones organising it![/q1]

This story moves to as many new locations as a James Bond film. From sunny Scunthorpe it now fetches
up in Doncaster. We are told that it is "well documented" that the unions were providing jobs
(unions don't provide jobs of course but don't let the facts get in the way) exclusively to Labour
Party members in Doncaster.

Outside of the Sun, could you point us to this documentation of yours? And are there any non-Labour
Party teachers in Doncaster who can settle this canard once and for all?

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Jack London, Lara Croft
Shakespeare and ICT program of study
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Mark.Norwood
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"StJohn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[q1]> I don't think I'd be happy with that.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Am I mistaken in thinking that it's not allowed for staff and children to share the same toilets?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> No! Even if it were allowed, I'd still not be happy.[/q1]

As I think my previous posts say, it doesn't thrill me.

However there is no 'rule' against it.

It does mean we have the nicest toilets of any school you might visit!

--
mvn
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