This discussion is closed.
Mark.Norwood
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#81
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#81
"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> Also I would argue that allowing students to choose easy courses is doing them a disservice[/q1]

I agree. All students should have to do at least one of the more challenging A levels like Theatre
Studies or Dance for example.

[q1]>and forcing them to think differently in at least one of their A-level subjects is "a good thing".[/q1]
[q1]>Someone doing maths + physics should do some essay writing IMHO and vice-versa.[/q1]

This is why Drama is such an important subject. It makes students think differently.

--
mvn
0
Clark
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beauty123 wrote:
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Reminds me of the issue that cropped up between a Head and a Classroom Assistant who got a nose[/q1]
[q1]> stud over the holidays. The Head told the Assistant she had to choose between her job and her[/q1]
[q1]> nose stud.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Personally, I like nose studs. I think they're a valid fashion statement and also I like[/q1]
[q1]> self-expression. In a free society, I'm sceptical of authorities who try to impose THEIR[/q1]
[q1]> preferences on others.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Anyway, the nose stud went.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I thought that was a shame.[/q1]

You were right to think that. Tell that head s/he's a dangerous idiot, from me.

Bob
0
Clark
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#83
Eddie Newall wrote:
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> "Clark" wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> <snip>[/q1]
[q2]> > I've written elsewhere about socialisation and given a reason or two about why I don't see it as[/q2]
[q2]> > a job for schools.[/q2]
[q1]> <snip>[/q1]
[q2]> > I don't think it's particularly a school's job to prepare children for work, either, by the way.[/q2]
[q2]> > But the point stands independently.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Is this attitude commonplace in secondary education teachers?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Hard to say. I guess lots of people have been misled by the kind of narrowly utilitarian proaganda
prevalent in recent years (only those things with a cash value are worthwhile and so on) into
thinking that education is to do with preparation for work. But there are, I suppose, enough of us
dinosaurs around who hold on to the idea that education is a good in itself rather than an
instrument of capitalist (or socialist, but that's an unlikely stance in uk.ed) production.

Often the debate is framed in terms of 'education' vs 'training', although that tends to slide
around the issue a bit, I think.

What's education for? Lots of things. Not the production of factory or office fodder, though.
You disagree?

Bob
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Ian
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#84
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#84
On Tue, 02 Jul 2002 15:53:39 +0100, mark.norwood wrote:

[q1]> "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...[/q1]
[q2]>> Also I would argue that allowing students to choose easy courses is doing them a disservice[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I agree. All students should have to do at least one of the more challenging A levels like Theatre[/q1]
[q1]> Studies or Dance for example.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]>>and forcing them to think differently in at least one of their A-level subjects is "a good thing".[/q2]
[q2]>>Someone doing maths + physics should do some essay writing IMHO and vice-versa.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> This is why Drama is such an important subject. It makes students think differently.[/q1]

All subjects do that if taught well.

Regards,

--
IanL
0
Michael Saunby
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#85
"User 1951" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:06:08 +0100, "Bob Spowart" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> >Didn't have Industrial Tribunals in the '60s. Anyway, provision of jobs exclusively to Labour[/q2]
[q2]> >Party Members is well documented in places like Doncaster, Liverpool and Newcastle. As for the[/q2]
[q2]> >Unions, they were the[/q2]
ones
[q2]> >organising it![/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> This story moves to as many new locations as a James Bond film. From sunny Scunthorpe it now[/q1]
[q1]> fetches up in Doncaster.[/q1]

And what a long journey that would be. Guess #1. You're not a geography teacher.

[q1]> We are told that it is "well documented" that the unions were providing jobs (unions don't[/q1]
[q1]> provide jobs of course but don't let the facts get in the way) exclusively to Labour Party[/q1]
[q1]> members in Doncaster.[/q1]

Labour councillors, in the style of the infamous Derek Hatton of Liverpool, would ensure that
council employment was restricted to party members. This was in the days when most public service
workers, not just school teachers, were employed by local authorites, e.g. dustmen and the like.

[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Outside of the Sun, could you point us to this documentation of yours? And are there any[/q1]
[q1]> non-Labour Party teachers in Doncaster who can settle this canard once and for all?[/q1]

Pehaps Bob will, but I wonder if you're trying to imply that if detailed proof is not forthcoming
then it must all be a politically motivated lie. Thankfully it is something that could easily be
research via achived national newspapers, etc. in a decent library.

Though of course Doncaster is a splendid example as the corruption there continued for many years,
even entering the Internet age.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...373081,00.html

Perhaps your appeal for teachers with direct experience of Labour only employment in such places in
the 1960s would be better directed at local newspapers in those areas. Quite likely there are a few
retired teachers who might be willing to help in your search for the truth. You might also want to
indentify any politically appointed head teachers and governors. Good luck with your quest, I'm sure
we'll all enjoy reading your findings.

Michael Saunby
0
Bob Spowart
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#86
User 1951 wrote in message <[email protected] e.net>...
[q1]>On Sun, 30 Jun 2002 19:06:08 +0100, "Bob Spowart" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]>>Didn't have Industrial Tribunals in the '60s. Anyway, provision of jobs exclusively to Labour[/q2]
[q2]>>Party Members is well documented in places like Doncaster, Liverpool and Newcastle. As for the[/q2]
[q2]>>Unions, they were the ones organising it![/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>This story moves to as many new locations as a James Bond film. From sunny Scunthorpe it now[/q1]
[q1]>fetches up in Doncaster. We are told that it is "well documented" that the unions were providing[/q1]
[q1]>jobs (unions don't provide jobs of course but don't let the facts get in the way) exclusively to[/q1]
[q1]>Labour Party members in Doncaster.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Outside of the Sun, could you point us to this documentation of yours? And are there any non-Labour[/q1]
[q1]>Party teachers in Doncaster who can settle this canard once and for all?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
At my age, I have a very long memory and can remember a lot of cases that the left (and right) would
prefer to be forgotten. My statement comes from what were at the time very well publicised cases.
Labour Councillors and non-elected council officials, both groups of whom who were also Trade Union
officials, conspired to restrict recruitment to council jobs to Labour Party supporters. This was in
addition to the Closed Shop where getting a job was conditional on belonging to the correct TU.
0
User 1951
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On Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:15:24 +0100, "Michael Saunby" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>Labour councillors, in the style of the infamous Derek Hatton of Liverpool, would ensure that[/q1]
[q1]>council employment was restricted to party members. This was in the days when most public service[/q1]
[q1]>workers, not just school teachers, were employed by local authorites, e.g. dustmen and the like.[/q1]

I see the scandal in Scunthorpe, which mysteriously moved to Doncaster has now arrived in Liverpool.
Now can you for example tell me how many teachers were employed personally by the apparently
infamous Derek Hatton? Was he involved in the employment of one teacher in Liverpool? Was the
teacher involved (if there was one) a Labour Party member (at a time when the Labour Party, you will
remember, was trying to expel Derek Hatton!)?

You seem to be weaving a tangled web here
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User1951
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#88
On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:01:24 +0100, "Bob Spowart" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>I was not just referring to Schools, but LEA jobs in general.[/q1]

This accusation really is going all round the houses isn't it

First it was schools in sunny Scunthorpe, then Doncaster then apparently a quiock shift to Liverpool
where Derek Hatton was produced deus ex machina and apprently only employed teachers from the Labour
Party which was trying to expel him...now apparently it wasn't schools at all but LEAs in general.

I am sure that there are people who have been given jobs because their face fits or because they
interview well or because they gave the right handshake but so far we have no evidence for the
rather fanciful claim that the Labour Party alone insists on only Labour Party members being
employed as teachers.

I am not a member or supporter of the Labour Party but this fairy story should not go unchallenged.
******************************** ********
http://user1951.tripod.com Education Education Education
******************************** *********
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Bob Spowart
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User 1951 wrote in message <[email protected] .net>...
[q1]>On Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:58:34 +0100, "Bob Spowart" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]>>My statement comes from what were at the time very well publicised cases. Labour Councillors and[/q2]
[q2]>>non-elected council officials, both groups of whom who were also Trade Union officials, conspired[/q2]
[q2]>>to restrict recruitment to council jobs to Labour Party supporters. This was in addition to the[/q2]
Closed
[q2]>>Shop where getting a job was conditional on belonging to the correct TU.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>You really are making this up as you go along. In which school was there a "closed shop"? There are[/q1]
[q1]>schools which are very tight little closed communities whether the teachers are union members or[/q1]
[q1]>not and new teachers feel uncomfortable to start with... or if they notoriously "sit in old Bob's[/q1]
[q1]>chair"... but a closed shop?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

I was not just referring to Schools, but LEA jobs in general.

[q1]>I have nothing against a closed shop[/q1]

I have. I served my country for 11½y in the Royal Engineers and did not do that to be told what
union I had to join to get a job. That is why I against the way the GTC has been foisted onto us.

[q1]> and plenty against the Labour Party...[/q1]

As I working class Tory (and proud of it) we find some common ground!

[q1]>what I am questioning is the veracity of your fanciful claim.[/q1]

Fanciful? Nowhere near as fanciful as the idea of the Closed Shop being a good thing!

[q1]>However no teachers from Doncaster have so far confessed to not being members of the Labour Party[/q1]
[q1]>so perhaps this fairy story is true after all [/q1]

Given the corruption endemic in Doncaster Council, I don't blame them!
0
A B
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#90
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#90
Refer to your DFEE Governors guide to the law.Annex 5 P2"a uniform policy would not contravene the
act" Be tough and let them sue!!! they won't! Andrew Parent Governor "Tyc Tac"
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> What are other schools policy regarding wearing ear rings at school ? One parent has threatened[/q1]
[q1]> referral to the European court of Human Rights for making their child remove large punk type ear[/q1]
[q1]> rings in class. Any views ?[/q1]
0
Barry Allaway
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#91
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#91
whats wrong with people with funny handshakes. Now we can start a whole new string on what the
Masons have added to society!! and to be fair they add lots of value by keeping quite and getting on
with what they enjoy, including giving a large sum of money each year to worthy casues including
schools, regardless of colour of skin, gender or number of piercings..

Just thought I would add something more interesting than the 60+e-mails on earings

Barry

"User1951" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:01:24 +0100, "Bob Spowart" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> >I was not just referring to Schools, but LEA jobs in general.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> This accusation really is going all round the houses isn't it [/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> First it was schools in sunny Scunthorpe, then Doncaster then apparently a quiock shift to[/q1]
[q1]> Liverpool where Derek Hatton was produced deus ex machina and apprently only employed teachers[/q1]
[q1]> from the Labour Party which was trying to expel him...now apparently it wasn't schools at all but[/q1]
[q1]> LEAs in general.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I am sure that there are people who have been given jobs because their face fits or because they[/q1]
[q1]> interview well or because they gave the right handshake but so far we have no evidence for the[/q1]
[q1]> rather fanciful claim that the Labour Party alone insists on only Labour Party members being[/q1]
[q1]> employed as teachers.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I am not a member or supporter of the Labour Party but this fairy story should not go[/q1]
[q1]> unchallenged.[/q1]
[q1]> ******************************** ********[/q1]
[q1]> http://user1951.tripod.com Education Education Education[/q1]
[q1]> ******************************** *********[/q1]
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[email protected]
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#92
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#92
In article <[email protected]>, Barry Allaway
<[email protected]> wrote:
[q1]> Just thought I would add something more interesting than the 60+e-mails on earings[/q1]

wot?

are people sending their posts to you by email as well as posting them here?

You need to complain to all their isp's.

--
Gertie.

Award-winning bog cleaner, agony aunt and now Latin scholar. Veni, vidi, Vim (I came, I saw,
I cleaned)
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Robert
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#93
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#93
On Thu, 4 Jul 2002 21:40:04 +0100, "Barry Allaway" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>whats wrong with people with funny handshakes. Now we can start a whole new string on what the[/q1]
[q1]>Masons have added to society!! and to be fair they add lots of value by keeping quite and getting[/q1]
[q1]>on with what they enjoy, including giving a large sum of money each year to worthy casues including[/q1]
[q1]>schools, regardless of colour of skin, gender or number of piercings..[/q1]

And I can also say without any hesitation or eqivocation that they can boost your promotion
prospects also. That uphill road to promotion soon levels out.
0
John Hill
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#94
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#94
On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:52:37 +0100, Martin Nicholson <[email protected]> wrote:

[q2]>>I have. I served my country for 11½y in the Royal Engineers and did not do that to be told what[/q2]
[q2]>>union I had to join to get a job. That is why I against the way the GTC has been foisted onto us.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>There is something about military or ex-military people that always annoys me.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>I think it might be their smug pomposity?[/q1]

Which arises from their being accustomed to being the best - but this only applies to the
British Army

JH
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Bob Spowart
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#95
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#95
Martin Nicholson wrote in message ...
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>>I have. I served my country for 11½y in the Royal Engineers and did not do that to be told what[/q2]
[q2]>>union I had to join to get a job. That is why I[/q2]
against
[q2]>>the way the GTC has been foisted onto us.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>There is something about military or ex-military people that always annoys me.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>I think it might be their smug pomposity?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
So what have you done to serve your country? I am VERY proud of having served in HM Forces and have
several qualities that are rare in full time civvies. I have a determination to see through any
challenge that I take on; My concept of teamwork is to back my mates (collegues) up and be able to
rely on them to back me up. Something essential in the forces, unlike the backstabbing that appears
to be endemic outside. (No I am not referring to teaching).

[q3]>>> and plenty against the Labour Party...[/q3]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>>As I working class Tory (and proud of it) we find some common ground![/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>You might as well be proud of having rabies.[/q1]

I am honest to put my views forward, plainly and without fudge. Please have the decency to allow me
to have views that differ from you own without stooping to such snide comments.

[q3]>>>what I am questioning is the veracity of your fanciful claim.[/q3]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>>Fanciful? Nowhere near as fanciful as the idea of the Closed Shop being a good thing![/q2]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>A Tory against a closed shop for others - but not strangely for his own party. Just remind us all[/q1]
[q1]>what percentage of Tory M P's are NOT white, middle-aged and male?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
I quite agree with you. I would greatly like to see more Black, Asian and Woman MPs representing my
party, PROVIDED they are selected on their merits, not, as in Blair's Babes, to fulfil some idea on
quotas. I also dislike the nepotism that sees the offspring of prominent party members being given
safe party seats at elections.
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User 1951
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On Sun, 7 Jul 2002 13:36:06 +0100, "Bob Spowart" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>So what have you done to serve your country? I am VERY proud of having served in HM Forces and have[/q1]
[q1]>several qualities that are rare in full time civvies.[/q1]

You are letting your modesty overwhelm you here.

At no point did I make any personal points as I think they are irrelevant. I note that no evidence
for your fanciful (and mercurial) stories has been brought forward,

The origin of the word canard is a newspaper story about a man who claimed to have started off with
a number of ducks (say 24) and minced up the 24th and fed it to the other 23....continuing the
process until he had minced up the penultimate duck and fed it entirely to the sole survivor. It is
rather more plausible than your assertions but it may be just a canard.

I am neither a supporter nor a member of the Labour Party. I can understand why people might want to
vote for them when the alternative is the party of Lord Archer and the Hamiltons whose
jiggery-pokery has been confirmed in court rather than merely asserted by remarkably unreliable
sources. I would not vote for a capitalist party myself but its a free country.

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User 1951
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On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:53:11 +0100, "Michael Saunby" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>Do your own research if it's so important to you. I see these folks for what they are, and if you[/q1]
[q1]>can't see it then that's your problem.[/q1]

I am interested that the truth is unimportant to you. Do I take it you are withdrawing your daft
allegation?

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Michael Saunby
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"User 1951" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> On Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:15:24 +0100, "Michael Saunby" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> >Labour councillors, in the style of the infamous Derek Hatton of[/q2]
Liverpool,
[q2]> >would ensure that council employment was restricted to party members.[/q2]
This
[q2]> >was in the days when most public service workers, not just school[/q2]
teachers,
[q2]> >were employed by local authorites, e.g. dustmen and the like.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I see the scandal in Scunthorpe, which mysteriously moved to Doncaster has now arrived in[/q1]
[q1]> Liverpool. Now can you for example tell me how many teachers were employed personally by the[/q1]
[q1]> apparently infamous Derek Hatton?[/q1]

Dear Jennifer,

Can you show that unlike in other public employment he ensured that the selection of governors,
heads, and teachers was entirely fair and above board? Eh?

[q1]> Was he involved in the employment of one teacher in Liverpool? Was the teacher involved (if there[/q1]
[q1]> was one) a Labour Party member (at a time when the Labour Party, you will remember, was trying to[/q1]
[q1]> expel Derek Hatton!)?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Do your own research if it's so important to you. I see these folks for what they are, and if you
can't see it then that's your problem.

The Labour party was also keen that (red) Ken Livingstone didn't become mayor of London.

Michael Saunby
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Michael Saunby
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#99
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#99
"User 1951" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
[q1]> On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:53:11 +0100, "Michael Saunby" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q2]> >Do your own research if it's so important to you. I see these folks for what they are, and if you[/q2]
[q2]> >can't see it then that's your problem.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> I am interested that the truth is unimportant to you. Do I take it you are withdrawing your daft[/q1]
[q1]> allegation?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Dear Jennifer,

I have already explained that if you contact me by means other than usenet I will provide you with a
lead to further investigate this matter if you so wish. Your obsession with the denial of past
Labour council corruption is cute, but fools nobody.

Have you managed to establish the fair and honourable means by which schools in Liverpool avoided
the corruption that was endemic under the rule of Derek Hatton? You cut that bit, so I can only
imagine you have resolved the matter to your satisfaction. Care to share Jen?

Regards,

Michael Saunby
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User 1951
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#100
On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 17:23:03 +0100, "Michael Saunby" <[email protected]> wrote:

[q1]>I have already explained that if you contact me by means other than usenet I will provide you with[/q1]
[q1]>a lead to further investigate this matter if you so wish. Your obsession with the denial of past[/q1]
[q1]>Labour council corruption is cute, but fools nobody.[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Have you managed to establish the fair and honourable means by which schools in Liverpool avoided[/q1]
[q1]>the corruption that was endemic under the rule of Derek Hatton? You cut that bit, so I can only[/q1]
[q1]>imagine you have resolved the matter to your satisfaction. Care to share Jen?[/q1]

No facts just new innuendo....and if anyone asks for facts of course you can just tell them to look
it up for themselves

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