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anyone going to london on thursday to protest against George W.? watch

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    Hehe policeman cleaning up, that would be a better world.

    The police are out there to maintain the established order, to opress the people and to stand up for the establishment.
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    (Original post by Eternal Idol)
    Come on ...
    You must be kidding...

    Is there someone who believes what Bush says????

    Really???
    Unfortunatley there are :mad: Although I think if the public where better informed about him they'd think twice before letting him set foot in England.
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    (Original post by Danithestudent)
    No No i know, my mates are going and they actually think that will have an effect...and they are saving the country when they 5 milion quid that is being used to protect Bush from terrorists and protesters could have gone into the NHS which they keep complaining about...you understand where I'm coming from
    How many billions have been spent on the war though? That's not really the issue though, my point is that people should always have the right to protest, if as large a figure as 5 million has to be spent on security it shows that the protest is been taking seriously. It won't mean any less money for the NHS as well, as the 5 million will come out of the home office's budget (well certainly not the health service's) and therefore not change things as far as the NHS (or schools, public services etc) are concerned.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    well who do you expect to protect the world. if the policeman is going to clean up, who makes the laws?

    before the conflict obviously.



    i think we are jumping ahead of ourselves. none of this has happened yet.
    Ideally, the “policing of the world” would be done by a neutral, international organization whose interests where not merely “national” in their scope. Individual countries certainly don’t have the right to go around “policing it” however.
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    (Original post by Danithestudent)
    Oh yeah and because the British are known for being really good ambassadors, plus I'm from a service family that knows what the real conflicts of war are, my dad used to work for the RAF Police (intellegence) and I know that for two major superpowers to declare war on someone is not because they "feel like it" or it's do with oil but merely they have intellegence reports the citizens of those countries do not have access to and SHOULDN'T have access to or else they'd be running around like headless chickens looting and murdering because they all think they are gona die.
    I say let him get on with his visit, I know people who are meeting him due to deaths in Iraq (7 of my friends have been out there as has my brother in law who witnessed 2 of the helicopter crashes)
    this means a lot to them and people who protest and cause disruption are merely making their deaths for their country, the one they live in and are free to have their own opinions and beliefs in, a joke.
    I think a lot of people who are going on that protest also know "what real conflicts of war are". As for the intelligence reports I think the Hutton Inquiry demonstrates that even if they have the right information against war they will still declare war because of their own interests.
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    (Original post by Elle)
    Unfortunatley there are :mad: Although I think if the public where better informed about him they'd think twice before letting him set foot in England.
    many people who have spent time with the president feel the opposite. apparently he comes across badly in the media, as David Frum put in frankly to the BBC last night.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    many people who have spent time with the president feel the opposite. apparently he comes across badly in the media, as David Frum put in frankly to the BBC last night.
    Hmmm, I think it’s pointless to speculate on how we would feel about him if we spent some time with him, this just isn’t going to happen. At the end of the day we can only comment on how he comes across to us, through the media. Anything else is mere speculation
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    (Original post by kildare)
    Hmmm, I think it’s pointless to speculate on how we would feel about him if we spent some time with him, this just isn’t going to happen. At the end of the day we can only comment on how he comes across to us, through the media anything else is mere speculation
    precisely.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    many people who have spent time with the president feel the opposite. apparently he comes across badly in the media, as David Frum put in frankly to the BBC last night.
    a few points in response to this post.

    first - there is a diference between shrewd political debate, and charisma. i've seen friends of mine who have huge amounts of charisma effectivly argue people into submission with points BOTH sides know are wrong. i've no doubt that (like hitler, for example) George has more charisma in his little finger than i have in my whole body, and that deserves some respect. unfortunately, that doesn't make him a good leader for the most powerful nation on earth.

    second - charisma only comes across well if you are there in person, and as George seemingly refuses to take part in true and public political debate on the issue, this cannot come across. as kildare points out, the only access we have to him is through the media, and so, unfoirtunatly for him, its a lot harder for him to infect us with his views.

    third, and last - in todays world, media has such a huge part to play in shaping public opinion, through newspaper (and their editorials) and TV news (in their selection of stories to broadcast) that even if George gets his views across badly (which i dont think he does), he still gets them across, and it will register with people, whether they want them to or not. only by taking a fully objective view of ALL media repoting, pro, anti, al-jazeera (spelling?) can we get as full and equal picture as we can, and due to the official secrets act, and similar, we wont get the ful story for another 50 years or so.
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    (Original post by El_Borish)
    a few points in response to this post.

    first - there is a diference between shrewd political debate, and charisma. i've seen friends of mine who have huge amounts of charisma effectivly argue people into submission with points BOTH sides know are wrong. i've no doubt that (like hitler, for example) George has more charisma in his little finger than i have in my whole body, and that deserves some respect. unfortunately, that doesn't make him a good leader for the most powerful nation on earth.

    second - charisma only comes across well if you are there in person, and as George seemingly refuses to take part in true and public political debate on the issue, this cannot come across. as kildare points out, the only access we have to him is through the media, and so, unfoirtunatly for him, its a lot harder for him to infect us with his views.

    third, and last - in todays world, media has such a huge part to play in shaping public opinion, through newspaper (and their editorials) and TV news (in their selection of stories to broadcast) that even if George gets his views across badly (which i dont think he does), he still gets them across, and it will register with people, whether they want them to or not. only by taking a fully objective view of ALL media repoting, pro, anti, al-jazeera (spelling?) can we get as full and equal picture as we can, and due to the official secrets act, and similar, we wont get the ful story for another 50 years or so.
    his outstanding speech yesterday in content and delivery, his address to the banqueting hall and his general behaviour have increased my opinion of him. contrast the funny and well-orated speech, the civilised and well-mannered occasion, with the foul idiots outside, abusing police officers and burning the american flag. i felt thoroughly ashamed watching that with american friends. luckily, they were a minority.

    i particuarly enjoyed.. "The British people are the sort of partners you want when serious work needs doing...And America is fortunate to call this country our closest friend in the world.".

    his reference to leaders with backbone was rather amusing bearing in mind the obvious French opinion.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    his outstanding speech yesterday in content and delivery, his address to the banqueting hall and his general behaviour have increased my opinion of him. contrast the funny and well-orated speech, the civilised and well-mannered occasion, with the foul idiots outside, abusing police officers and burning the american flag. i felt thoroughly ashamed watching that with american friends. luckily, they were a minority.

    i particuarly enjoyed.. "The British people are the sort of partners you want when serious work needs doing...And America is fortunate to call this country our closest friend in the world.".

    his reference to leaders with backbone was rather amusing bearing in mind the obvious French opinion.
    ALTERNATIVE TO LAST POST:

    His worrying speech yesterday in content and delivery, his address to the banqueting hall and general behaviour have reinforced my general opinion of him. contrast the scripted, dragging and repetitive speech, the blinkered and superficial occasion, with the concerned demonstrators outside, excercising their human rights, and desperatly trying to gain an accessed voice in a strongly biased media climate. i felt reassured watching that with friends, no matter what nationality they were. luckily, they were an unmeasurable section of public opinion, one way or the other.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    his outstanding speech yesterday in content and delivery, his address to the banqueting hall and his general behaviour have increased my opinion of him. contrast the funny and well-orated speech, the civilised and well-mannered occasion, with the foul idiots outside, abusing police officers and burning the american flag. i felt thoroughly ashamed watching that with american friends. luckily, they were a minority.

    i particuarly enjoyed.. "The British people are the sort of partners you want when serious work needs doing...And America is fortunate to call this country our closest friend in the world.".

    his reference to leaders with backbone was rather amusing bearing in mind the obvious French opinion.
    i particularly distrusted.. "The British people are the sort of partners you want when serious work needs doing...And America is fortunate to call this country our closest friend in the world."

    his reference to leaders with backbone was a rather xenophobic bearig in mind the French's right to an opposing opinion, as the UN is obliged to provide.
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    its all about spin, PR, preffered readings, and accessed voice - policy is in there somehwere, but probably not at the top of the list.

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    Remember the time when he was interviewd and asked who they heads of states of serval countires wear and he didn't know?! Apparantly 'The General' is HoS of Pakistan . And the Americans still 'elected' him.

    To give him credit he comes across very simply and straight to the point. To become President of the US isn't a mean feat.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    Remember the time when he was interviewd and asked who they heads of states of serval countires wear and he didn't know?! Apparantly 'The General' is HoS of Pakistan . And the Americans still 'elected' him.

    To give him credit he comes across very simply and straight to the point. To become President of the US isn't a mean feat.
    no mean feat....

    kinda makes it easier when your dad gave you millions (and has already BEEN president), bribed the supreme court, fixed the election (al gore won in the end, we now know), etc, etc, etc... read stupid white men - its all in there
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    (Original post by El_Borish)
    read stupid white men - its all in there
    I have, very good book.

    I was trying to be positive BTW, I am not too keen on him and his right wing colleagues, or any right winger to be honest.
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    Particularly worrying was when the Queen spoke about Britain's alliance with the US against the war on terrorism and how she thought it was great.

    Should the Queen say that knowing that millions of he empolyers are against what has happened over the past 2 years?
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    Particularly worrying was when the Queen spoke about Britain's alliance with the US against the war on terrorism and how she thought it was great.

    Should the Queen say that knowing that millions of he empolyers are against what has happened over the past 2 years?
    the queen doesn't have to care, unfortunatly, and she's highly right-wing at any rate, so she probably DOES approve!
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    No, i couldn't be bothered!
    Bush wont see it, so whats the point?
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    (Original post by El_Borish)
    the queen doesn't have to care, unfortunatly, and she's highly right-wing at any rate, so she probably DOES approve!
    But should she be allowed to say so? Isn't she supposed to remain impartial in public? Isn't she misleading and misrepresenting us?
 
 
 
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