LSE vs NYU Stern

International relations and business are obviously two very different fields. You can probably expect to make much more money from the latter, though it's nowhere near as interesting as the former. Now if you like both fields about the same amount, I say go with NYU. Stern has a top-notch reputation and you shouldn't have any problems finding a job. Going there will also save you a good $60,000 in student loans (probably more if you intent to live at home when you go to NYU).

You should just realize that working in business means working as much as 80 hours a week behind a desk or on the phone, while working in IR (and you'd need a Masters to get a decent job in this field) you'll be able to travel around the world and work on your own time table. On the other hand, getting a job in finance and accounting is extremely easy in New York City right now. All my friends in those two fields got high-paying jobs before they graduated. Getting a job in IR is not nearly as easy, though you could potentially make a lot of money somewhere down the line (not right away though).

What are you favorite subjects in school by the way?

And hello from a fellow New Yorker. :smile:

Reply 3

What are the fees for Stern?

Reply 4

mobb_theprequel

What are the fees for Stern?

Around $30k a year, just like most other private schools I'd wager.

Reply 5

Bismarck

Around $30k a year, just like most other private schools I'd wager.

Cheers for the response.

Reply 6

mobb_theprequel

Cheers for the response.

No problem. How much is tuition for undergraduates at LSE? I know it's roughly $23k (12k pounds) a year for non-EU postgraduates right now (since that's what I'll be paying).

Reply 7

Bismarck

No problem. How much is tuition for undergraduates at LSE? I know it's roughly $23k (12k pounds) a year for non-EU postgraduates right now (since that's what I'll be paying).

£10,500 for non-EU undergrads
£1,200 for home/EU undergrads - soon to rise to £3,000 in the 2005/6 admissions cycle.

Reply 8

thebrittzditz

OP

Thanks Claudy - yeah the drinking age really factors in there. :P

Nice to have another new yorker's perspective Bismarck...

Well I do have to pay for dorms if i go to NYU because my parents are moving down to Florida. To answer your question mobb_theprequel, Stern will probably end up costing me $45,000-50,000/year including dorm/living/tuition, which I figure is roughly the same as it would cost me per year to attend LSE (international fees, plus factor in the horrible exchange rate.)

Overall though, the way I figure it, it will only take me 3 years to get a degree @ LSE which is like $50,000 x 3 = $150,000. At Stern its $30,000/year (50,000 - 20,000 scholarship) but for 4 years = $120,000.

So the difference is really $30,000 - a difference of less than $10,000 a year in the end, from that perspective.

Plus the dollar could get stronger (or weaker for that matter...so I guess thats another risk involved...)

Bismarck you make a good point about the type of work I'd be doing, even if for an immediately higher paycheck. I cannot picture myself doing office work, and my interest is much greater in int'l relations. However, I don't know where I would work in int'l relations as I really don't want to be in the US gov't, and the UN seems pretty pointless/powerless at the moment.....

In school (to answer your question) I'm definately a full out humanities person (social studies, history, politics, english) although if I need to be I can be good at economics, maybe a little less so at math. But in terms of enjoying what I'm learning, humanities definitely.

Thanks everyone for your input!

Brittany

Reply 9

LSE should only be $25K per year for tuition max, (probably more like $21K) so max of $75K over the three year course. Will probably be more like $65K.

You'd need accomodation and money for going out etc as well, but I don't think it would come out to 150K...would end up more like $125K max. Could be as little as $105K.

Reply 10

thebrittzditz

Thanks Claudy - yeah the drinking age really factors in there. :P

Nice to have another new yorker's perspective Bismarck...

Well I do have to pay for dorms if i go to NYU because my parents are moving down to Florida. To answer your question mobb_theprequel, Stern will probably end up costing me $45,000-50,000/year including dorm/living/tuition, which I figure is roughly the same as it would cost me per year to attend LSE (international fees, plus factor in the horrible exchange rate.)

Overall though, the way I figure it, it will only take me 3 years to get a degree @ LSE which is like $50,000 x 3 = $150,000. At Stern its $30,000/year (50,000 - 20,000 scholarship) but for 4 years = $120,000.

So the difference is really $30,000 - a difference of less than $10,000 a year in the end, from that perspective.

Plus the dollar could get stronger (or weaker for that matter...so I guess thats another risk involved...)

Bismarck you make a good point about the type of work I'd be doing, even if for an immediately higher paycheck. I cannot picture myself doing office work, and my interest is much greater in int'l relations. However, I don't know where I would work in int'l relations as I really don't want to be in the US gov't, and the UN seems pretty pointless/powerless at the moment.....

In school (to answer your question) I'm definately a full out humanities person (social studies, history, politics, english) although if I need to be I can be good at economics, maybe a little less so at math. But in terms of enjoying what I'm learning, humanities definitely.

Thanks everyone for your input!

Brittany

I had the same problem as you. I originally went to a business school (Baruch college) to study the financial side of economics, because that's what my parents wanted and because it was an easy way to get a high-paying job. After spending a few years working part-time in an accounting department and taking a few business classes, I knew this field wasn't for me. I wouldn't feel happy from doing the same things every day, with the high point of my life being when some numbers rose or fell. So I decided to major in political science and will soon by going to LSE to study for a Masters in international relations.

Sadly, the difference in tuition isn't the only cost of not getting a business degree though. You're pretty much guaranteed a $60k a year job with a Bachelors in business, while you'll need a Masters just to get a job paying $40-50k a year in IR. In your first five years after graduating alone, you stand to lose $100k in foregone wages. On the other hand, it's not like you'd be going poor with $40-50k a year, and you get much more vacation time and expenses-paid travel in IR.

Honestly, you won't get any job that's a bit relevant to IR unless you get a Masters degree. At best you can hope to work for an NGO, and not in a position where you'd be making any major decisions. With a Masters, you could get a job for the government, an international organization, a think tank, or a private firm.

In the case of working for the government, you could get a position in the State Department, Department of Defense, CIA, or be a foreign policy advisor for a Congressman. The starting salary is roughly $45k for all of those jobs, but you do get extensive benefits. Those professions are very competitive though. Only 1 out of 15 people get accepted to work for the State Department for example.

Regarding international organizations, there's the UN, World Bank, and IMF. You'd need some background in economics for the last two. The starting salaries are also in the $40-45k range, and it's also fairly hard to get in. In these jobs, you'd be sitting behind a desk 9-5 every day though, and I doubt you'd find that appealing.

There are plenty of think tanks out there, like Brookings, Heritage, Cato, CFR, etc. I have no idea how easy it is to get a job for them, and I heard the starting salaries vary greatly.

As for private firms, most major corporations have political consultants. Doesn't make much sense to build an oil refinery or invest in a gold mine somewhere if you don't know about the goals and relative power of the political forces in a given country. I believe these jobs are the highest paying ones, paying as much as $200k a year (more if you have a top-notch reputation). No idea how to land a job in these companies though. I assume LSE would be able to help with that.

You might have some problems working in business if you don't like math too much, since that's all you'll be using. Finance and accounting are all about analyzing numbers. Writing a two-page memo is the most non-math work people in these fields are responsible for. Is there any particular reason you like IR? Is there any specific time period or region that you're interested in?

mobb_theprequel

£10,500 for non-EU undergrads
£1,200 for home/EU undergrads - soon to rise to £3,000 in the 2005/6 admissions cycle.

Ouch. I guess they don't give foreign undergrads a break either.

Reply 11

Bismarck bear in mind that graduating from LSE in IR should give the opportunity to go into a wide-range of jobs, (at least with a good overall grade). Although I agree that to get a good IR-focussed job a masters is usually prerequisite. I know people who've gone on from IR into jobs in loads of different areas and it certainly hasn't shut any doors for them.

If I was facing the same choice as this person I would probably choose LSE just because I don't find business particularly interesting and might well die of boredom during the course! Some people really enjoy business so it's all good for them; I'd rather study something I enjoy first then go into business afterwards, at least if I wanted a well paid job.

Are you going to be starting your masters next year?

Reply 12

tiantang

8

Hughski,

On a tangent here. On the open day i was told 1:2.1, for law are only give out to 60%, thats worryingly low. Is this true? Assumin you put in the effort (lets say 40hrs a week), would a 2.1 be achievable or would more work be needed?

Reply 13

Hughski

Bismarck bear in mind that graduating from LSE in IR should give the opportunity to go into a wide-range of jobs, (at least with a good overall grade). Although I agree that to get a good IR-focussed job a masters is usually prerequisite. I know people who've gone on from IR into jobs in loads of different areas and it certainly hasn't shut any doors for them.

If I was facing the same choice as this person I would probably choose LSE just because I don't find business particularly interesting and might well die of boredom during the course! Some people really enjoy business so it's all good for them; I'd rather study something I enjoy first then go into business afterwards, at least if I wanted a well paid job.

You're right that you can get into a large amount of industries by studying Political Science/IR, but you wouldn't be doing anything remotely relevant. You can probably even get a job in business with an IR degree, since it shows the employer that you're capable of using your brain, something that can't be said for most people out there. :wink:

It's extremely difficult to get a relevant job for the US government with a Bachelors, and it's impossible to get one for an international organization. Even if you do manage to get a job for the government or some private firm, the chances of getting promoted are rather low. In Britain you do have a civil service where you should have no difficulty getting a job with a Bachelors in IR, but I don't think we have an equivalent agency here in the States.

Are you going to be starting your masters next year?

Yep. I'm starting in less than half a year. I'm looking forward to it. I haven't been to Europe since my family left there 12 years ago. I hope the natives are friendly to Yankees. :wink:

How about you?

Reply 14

tiantang

Hugski,

On a tangent here. On the open day i was told 1:2.1, for law are only give out to 60%, thats worryingly low. Is this true? Assumin you put in the effort (lets say 40hrs a week), would a 2.1 be achievable or would more work be needed?

You will definitely be able to get a 2.1 with that much work, (a lot of it is staying focussed in the run up to the exam period though).

It's much harder to predict a 1st from any amount of work put in, but, from people I've spoken to, it seems you'll invariably get a 2.1 if you go to most of the lectures/classes and revise hard, (+plenty of reading during term time makes revision a lot easier).

Getting a high 2.1 depends on putting a bit more work in and your exam technique makes a huge difference, (they become more picky when it comes to giving 65+).

Getting a first will mean learning a lot of cases, quotes, reading extra material, or sometimes just being lucky with the areas that come up.

Some "originality" also helps, this generally means noticing things other people didn't and pointing out how a minor difference in the facts of a problem question, for example, could completely change the outcome of the case.

Mainly it just comes down to hard work and revision, but with that much work you'd almost certainly get a 2.1. Getting a high 2.1/1st comes down to aptitude, good revision, exam technique etc. etc.

They can be more generous with university marking than for A-Level/GCSE and if you write a first and a high 2.1 in an exam paper, then what is really a 2.2 they will usually mark it up to a 2.1... [EDIT: When I say more "generous" I don't mean they mark more easily but just that they have more flexibility in marking you higher if they can see you are really a 2.1/1 candidate and have just written a bad essay for whatever reason..]

Don't worry about it too much till you get here though. At the beginning they said something like: "Well if you get below 40% you need to re-take, although getting below 40% is actually quite a challenge in itself so we're not really sure how people manage it", (by not working very much most likely!).

In the law booklet they say: "Upper second class answers cover a wide band of students". High 2.1s and 1sts are the real challenge. No worries for your 40 hrs per week I doubt.

Reply 15

Bismarck

Yep. I'm starting in less than half a year. I'm looking forward to it. I haven't been to Europe since my family left there 12 years ago. I hope the natives are friendly to Yankees. :wink:

How about you?

Studying law here at the moment. We're very yankee-friendly heheh!

Reply 16

Hughski

Studying law here at the moment. We're very yankee-friendly heheh!

We don't have law as an undergrad major here. What can you do with a bachelors in law in Britain if you don't mind me asking?

Reply 17

Bismarck

We don't have law as an undergrad major here. What can you do with a bachelors in law in Britain if you don't mind me asking?

You can become a lawyer, (lol), although it requires 1 year further study for a Barrister (Bar Vocational Course) or the LPC to become a solicitor. It's basically two years further study though, although for one year of this you will be paid in either scenario, (and for the LPC sometimes both years).

You can also go into banking, business...well all kinds of things. I want to do a masters in law first anyway, and then will probably become a lawyer/lecturer, but haven't decided yet.

Reply 18

Hughski - another tangential question - do the LSE Law society arrange a lot of things during Freshers' Week/Fortnight/whatever it is?!

Cheers

Reply 19