LSE vs NYU Stern

Bismarck

That means that you have to put up with 5 years of Law courses? :confused:

Is there enough material to teach for that long? Here law school only takes 2 years I believe (you go there once you get a bachelors).

What type of law do you prefer? Criminal, civil, divorce, business, copyright, etc.?

At the moment I'm leaning towards commercial or intellectual property law.

The first three years is more of an academic course, (at least at LSE), and looks at a wider range of issues to do with the law than are really required to be a lawyer. You can do the "core components" of a law degree in a one year course after you have graduated in another subject called the CPE, (basically a conversion course).

After you have done either the conversion or a law degree there is basically one year of further academic study that is required, (though it can be fairly vocational), and some large firms run their own courses tailored to their needs.

The second year that you need to do to be allowed to practice at the Bar is called a pupillage, which means following around a more senior barrister for 12 months, (though you're often allowed to do some work in your second 6 months). For this year you can earn anywhere from £10K (minimum) up to £45K p.a., which is in the form of a grant, and some of which may usually be forwarded while you're doing the "academic year" before the pupillage. Any work you do during the second 6 months of the pupillage is also paid, though it's usually a fairly small amount, but I've heard at some chambers it can be as much as 15K.

To become a solicitor the second year involves something similar and you'll be paid a wage, (about 28K at a large city firm), although much less at smaller firms. After you qualify you'll usually be given a job. The large firms usually also pay you when you're doing the academic training.

Reply 25

Lawz-

Becoming a lawyer in the US:

4 years undergrad
3 years law school
Neither period entails any income - instead you pay up to 40k a year

Becoming a lawyer in the UK:

3 years undergrad
1 year LPC or BVC
2 years PAID training

Either the American lawyers are really underqualified or British lawyers are really overqualified. :smile:

The people I know who are going to law school didn't take more than one law class in college, and most majored in English, which means they know next to nothing about law. I guess that's why law school is so stressful in the US; they have to cram all that information in half the time.

Hughski

At the moment I'm leaning towards commercial or intellectual property law.

The first three years is more of an academic course, (at least at LSE), and looks at a wider range of issues to do with the law than are really required to be a lawyer. You can do the "core components" of a law degree in a one year course after you have graduated in another subject called the CPE, (basically a conversion course).

After you have done either the conversion or a law degree there is basically one year of further academic study that is required, (though it can be fairly vocational), and some large firms run their own courses tailored to their needs.

The second year that you need to do to be allowed to practice at the Bar is called a pupillage, which means following around a more senior barrister for 12 months, (though you're often allowed to do some work in your second 6 months). For this year you can earn anywhere from £10K (minimum) up to £45K p.a., which is in the form of a grant, and some of which may usually be forwarded while you're doing the "academic year" before the pupillage. Any work you do during the second 6 months of the pupillage is also paid, though it's usually a fairly small amount, but I've heard at some chambers it can be as much as 15K.

To become a solicitor the second year involves something similar and you'll be paid a wage, (about 28K at a large city firm), although much less at smaller firms. After you qualify you'll usually be given a job. The large firms usually also pay you when you're doing the academic training.

It seems that your system is geared towards allowing the lower classes to become lawyers, which is not a real possibility here.

Reply 26

Lawz-

14

Bismarck

Either the American lawyers are really underqualified or British lawyers are really overqualified. :smile:

The people I know who are going to law school didn't take more than one law class in college, and most majored in English, which means they know next to nothing about law. I guess that's why law school is so stressful in the US; they have to cram all that information in half the time.

Well to be fair to them ... the LPC is the vocation part -w hich is normally covered by the bar in the US... and is the equivilent of the bar here.

As ot the training - there are pros and cons - but there is something to be said for the notion that at the point US grads START, and the point UK trainees become fully qualified - the latter have better experience.

Reply 27

Bismarck

Either the American lawyers are really underqualified or British lawyers are really overqualified. :smile:

The people I know who are going to law school didn't take more than one law class in college, and most majored in English, which means they know next to nothing about law. I guess that's why law school is so stressful in the US; they have to cram all that information in half the time.

It seems that your system is geared towards allowing the lower classes to become lawyers, which is not a real possibility here.

Especially for work at the Bar, at one time a pupillage would be virtually unpaid...well at one time you'd actually pay for it I think heheh.

Reply 28

thebrittzditz

OP

Aside from all the lawyer-talk (I hadn't known it took so long to become a lawyer in the UK!) this discussion has been pretty helpful.

I wanted to clarify for Steph123 that I would be doing business at Stern, not international relations.

Also, my $50,000 was an overestimate leaving room for living costs in London, tuition, transportation back to the states during holidays, and an ever weakening dollar.

Overall I'm pretty sure I want to go to LSE. What bothers me is not having a goal as to where I'd want to work coming out of school (I'd probably get a master's in international relations as well.) Although thanks to everyone for providing possible scenarios and salaries for international relations and business.

Not liking math is definitely a problem for me, and yet another reason not to want to do business. I don't mind micro/macroeconomics though, graphs and stuff, just not all the calculus and stuff.

Plus I simply love London! :smile:

And I think for IR it'd be helpful to gage Europe's views and positions as at the moment I think America's trying to handle a wide foreign policy with no idea of where the rest of the world is.

Brittany

Brittany, my advice would be to study what you're really interested in, especially since a degree from LSE will allow you to go into business if you change your mind in the future. I'm currently studying at NYU Stern and I really enjoy finance, but many people there hate studying business and are just doing it for the high-paying job after graduation. 4 years is a long time to be miserable; if you know that you would enjoy international relations then go do it. The 30,000 difference as you calculated it won't matter much in the long run. Good luck.

Reply 31

thebrittzditz

Overall I'm pretty sure I want to go to LSE. What bothers me is not having a goal as to where I'd want to work coming out of school (I'd probably get a master's in international relations as well.) Although thanks to everyone for providing possible scenarios and salaries for international relations and business.

You still have 3-4 years to decide where you'd like to work. Even if you knew right now, chances are you'd change your mind in 3-4 years. I expect the faculty in LSE to know about the job aspect of this field, and I'm sure they'll be able to give you an idea of what you should do after you graduate far better than anyone here (or your parents for that matter).

Not liking math is definitely a problem for me, and yet another reason not to want to do business. I don't mind micro/macroeconomics though, graphs and stuff, just not all the calculus and stuff.

Many Masters programs in IR require you to know economics, so I would suggest that you acquaint yourself with that subject fairly well. Economics is playing a greater and greater role in relations between countries now adays.

Plus I simply love London! :smile:

And I think for IR it'd be helpful to gage Europe's views and positions as at the moment I think America's trying to handle a wide foreign policy with no idea of where the rest of the world is.

Do you love London or the drinking age in London? :wink:

Lawz and Hughski, thanks for the information on law school in Britain. It's always good to know these things to avoid making oneself look like a fool if it ever comes up in a conversation.

Reply 32

Brittany I agree it could go up to $50K per year so the cost is definitely something to take into consideration, although I don't think it will make a huge difference in the long run. Both courses have their advantages so I think you should choose whichever course you enjoy most, (I don't think getting a good job will be difficult either way).

Bismarck, might see you around LSE sometime next year. (Same to Brittany if you decide to come in the end).

[QUOTE="Musafir_85"]

Hughski who marks our exams? are they same tutors who teach us in the lessons and lecturers???

Yes, usually the exams are marked by several different members of staff and then moderated, usually by whoever is running that particular unit of course. Supposedly some of them are also examined, (perhaps later, so this might not have any effect on the grades given), externally to see how closely the Russell group/top universities are marking etc. (Not really sure about this).

In the example I meant if in one exam you write 4 essays, one of them being a first and two high 2.1s...but then in the last you write a high 2.2 they'll most likely mark this up to a low 2.1 so as not to spoil your overall grade. That's something one of my tutors told me, (he said it was a good reason to always write a really good starting essay so the marker has a good idea what kind of a grade he was going to give you at the end of the exam from the start). I don't think they can mark up retrospectively though lol.

For borderline final marks in a unit: 69, 59 etc. you can be moved up to the classification above, so working hard throughout the whole year is a good idea, (ugh!). Although to be honest I think they look mainly at the classification in your other units...to quote LSE "Whenever the candidate has shown appropriate strength elsewhere".

Reply 33

Hughski

Bismarck, might see you around LSE sometime next year. (Same to Brittany if you decide to come in the end).

Assuming I don't get lost in London first. Or your taxi drivers are as efficient as the ones in New York City. :smile:

Reply 34

Bismarck

Assuming I don't get lost in London first. Or your taxi drivers are as efficient as the ones in New York City. :smile:

Haha, when you first come to London you can get lost so badly. On my first night I spent 2 hours going less than 40 metres because I'd taken a strange route to a pub that was basically opposite my Hall, (NO IDEA how I didn't see the hall when I left!), and backtracking was difficult!! At least the underground works well; it's pretty expensive for a single though.

Reply 35

Hughski

Haha, when you first come to London you can get lost so badly. On my first night I spent 2 hours going less than 40 metres because I'd taken a strange route to a pub that was basically opposite my Hall, (NO IDEA how I didn't see the hall when I left!), and backtracking was difficult!! At least the underground works well; it's pretty expensive for a single though.

From reading the site about the residence halls, it seems that London doesn't bother numbering its streets. Do you people have to memorize the names of all streets just so you can figure out how to get somewhere? :confused:

Sorry to the thread starter for going off-topic.

Reply 36