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Ian/Cath Ford
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#21
Report 18 years ago
#21
On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 02:01:07 -0000, Mark Thakkar
<[email protected] > wrote:

[q3]>>> Only one other stands out as quite so crass: when Galadriel says to[/q3]
[q3]>>> Frodo, "Even the smallest person can change the course of the[/q3]
[q3]>>> future."[/q3]
[q2]>>[/q2]
[q2]>> That's doesn't sound so bad, and is also sounds fairly Tolkien-esque[/q2]
[q2]>> - Gandalf and Aragorn and all the other big important characters (in[/q2]
[q2]>> terms of they're place in society rather than importance to the[/q2]
[q2]>> book, I mean) consantly come out with stuff like that in the book.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]>Ay, but it's the style not the substance here. Galadriel says things[/q1]

I'd agree that it hardly sounds like Galadriel. An interesting analysis.

[q1]>Still, 'tis but a little matter.[/q1]

Ho ho :-)

[q1]>even if you don't have to sit through it. Personally I'd have been[/q1]
[q1]>quite happy with the 10-hour film you mentioned, but I doubt many[/q1]
[q1]>people would...[/q1]

Now just you wait 10 years - they'll be cueing up for the all
night specials.

Thanks for the words Mark. You've made me want to go and see it. I doubt
Cath will want to, but I can try.

Ian
--
Ian, Cath & Eoin Ford The view from Beccles

"Safe sex doesn't mean no sex/It just means use your imagination"

You know what to do: delete the dots but leave the .s to reply to us.
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Mark Thakkar
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#22
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#22
Chris,

[q2]>> Is Liv Tyler in this film? I heard an interview with her and she said[/q2]
[q2]>> that her character isn't actually that big in the book itself but[/q2]
[q2]>> that there is something about her in the appendix so they've[/q2]
[q2]>> incorporated that... any outraged Tolkien fans here?[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> She is in it, a lot more than in the book. She's barely mentioned at[/q1]
[q1]> all in FOTR, but in the movie she is the one who comes to save Frodo[/q1]
[q1]> after he's been got by the Ringwraiths, isntead of Glorfindel. And[/q1]
[q1]> they took a bit of the appendix (which is basically all abouyt Aragorn[/q1]
[q1]> and Arwen) and put it in the film. Then she disappears.. probably only[/q1]
[q1]> on for a few min.[/q1]

What with all the hoo-ha about her expanded part, I noticed Arwen a good
deal more than I'd expected to when re-reading the Fellowship. There are
also numerous hints made by Aragorn about something he has to do, and
something he desires - i.e., he has to prove himself (to Elrond) in
order to win Arwen, though it's never explicitly stated.

For example, in "The Ring Goes South": "Aragorn sat with his head bowed
between his knees; only Elrond knew fully what this hour meant to him."

And when Galadriel asks him, "But is there aught else that you desire
of me at our parting?", he replies: "Lady, you know all my desire, and
long held in keeping the only treasure that I seek. Yet it is not yours
to give to me, even if you would; and only through darkness shall I
come to it."

(Elrond is Arwen's father, and Galadriel her grandmother.)

Mark.
0
Becca Taylor
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#23
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#23
[q2]> >I look forward to the special edition DVDs in a couple of years time[/q2]
[q2]> >(for LOTR probably to coincide with the release of the last film,[/q2]
[q2]> >since next[/q2]
year
[q2]> >the normal DVD will appear) with the full uncut versions of[/q2]
[q2]> >Harry Potter[/q2]
and
[q2]> >The Fellowship.[/q2]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Would be nice... don't know if they will though. Fingers crossed...[/q1]

I would think that it's almost a certainty that they'll turn up at some
stage.. they have to get their full money's worth out of these things
you know..

Becca
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James Gregory
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#24
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#24
Al Chemyst wrote:
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Lord of the Rings - wow![/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Anyone else seen it yet? Thoughts, opinions. Does anyone actually not[/q1]
[q1]> like it I wonder?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Finnaly seen it.

My opinion:

Evidently, the constraints of making the book into a 3 hour film meant
huge amounts simply /had/a to be cut, and some bits /had/ to be greatly
simplified - even cut as it is, and even though it is 3 hours long as it
is, it stills flicks from scene to scene at great speed. Debating
whether it was right that they cut so much is pointless - it simply
wasn't physically possible to cut much less.

However, what Jackson didn't have to do, for good or for bad, was
to make the entire style of it so very much Hollywoody, filmy even
for a film.

In places I really liked the Hollywoodness, mainly in places where it
gave you a real sense of the ring's power and evil - I loved the
shockwave knocking over all the soldiers in the prologue, I loved the
huge, booming CHOONK noise when Bilbo throws the ring on to the ground,
I loved the argument at Rivendell beign reflected in the ring, I loved
it that when Galadriel explained why she couldn't possibly take the ring
she did it appearing as a dark goddess type person, I loved the way the
camera kept suddenly zooming in on the totally plain yet somehow
sinister ring, I loved the eerie cry of the Ringwraiths.

Unrelated to the ring, I also loved the way that whenever the characters
got to an impressive backdrop, as happens so often in Lord of the Rings
(Tolkien's amazing descriptions of the places they come across are for
me one the the greatest bits of the book), the camera swoops and dives
about to make the most of the vista of mountains or tower or whatever.

In so many other places, however, the Hollywood styling really annoyed
me - the way that whenever some monsters are about to kill the
characters, they suddenly pause and in that pause something suddenly
saves them (this happened in pretty much every single fight scene), I
hated the pan-pipey rip-off of Titanic at the end, I hated Sam beating
up orcs with a saucepan, I hated Frodo being chased round a stone by the
troll, I hated lines like "If you want him, come claim him", I hated
Boromir being made so 2 dimensional though I suppose in the time limits
they had to rather simplify his corruption but all the same, I hated the
way I'm sure the Ringwraiths drew their swords twice in the same battle,
I thought the battle between Gandalf and Sauron was actually rather
boring compared to the way in the book it just talks of great energies
being unleashed and leaves it to your imagination (they could have
panned the camera out and just shown huge flashes of light from far away
or something).

In other places, the Hollywoodness didn't really particularly annoy me,
but it did nevertheless still show rather blatantly, like Sauron closing
the doors on Gandalf one by one etc.

N.B. due to the lack of people still in York I ended up going to see it
with just one other person, and hence I can now claim to have gone
to see a film with a gay bloke. Oh dear.

James
0
James Gregory
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#25
Report 18 years ago
#25
Al Chemyst wrote:
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Lord of the Rings - wow![/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]
[q1]> Anyone else seen it yet? Thoughts, opinions. Does anyone actually not[/q1]
[q1]> like it I wonder?[/q1]
[q1]>[/q1]

Oh, by the way, whilst people are doing banal (I think that's the wrong
word) posts, you know when they're in a vastly impressive chamber in
Moria, which expands as far as they can see in all directions in the
darkness, and then they continue to walk and climb to the exit across
huge chasms and passageways and boulders, and they get outside and your
eyes hurt for a brief second as the bright sun lights up the sheets of
pure white rock all across the mountainside they are standing on?

That's exactly what caving in France on my summer holiday this year was
like, if anyone ever wonders why people would want to go caving.

James
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Jez @ Ainfigree
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#26
Report 18 years ago
#26
In article <[email protected] .CIS.DFN.DE>,
[email protected] says... [...]
[q1]> In the land of Redmond where the Shadows lie.[/q1]

Aww, and They told me it was nice and sunny over there. Darnit! [1]

Incidentally, I liked the film. It could have been a little better - for
example, the time gap between Bilbo's birthday and Gandalf telling Frodo
the truth behind the ring is underplayed to the extent of nonexistence,
and I quite liked the character of Tom Bombadil - but as a film it
was basically just fantastic. I *will* be buying the 3 DVD box set when
it inevitably appears..

J /who finally remembered to reinstall her newsreader on new 'puter...

[1] where, in the absence of better alternatives, i shall hopefully be
working this summer - talk about the Dark Side...
--
Shall I? What if? Which? http://www.oxbridge-info.co.uk (Thanks to
Waveflex!) Dumbstruck at 2am: http://girl-geek.com Will code HTML for
money: http://www.justanotherstudio.co.uk
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Mark Thakkar
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#27
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#27
James,

[q1]> That's exactly what caving in France on my summer holiday this year[/q1]
[q1]> was like, if anyone ever wonders why people would want to go caving.[/q1]

Did you see a Balrog?

Mark.
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Mark Thakkar
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#28
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#28
James,

[q1]> In so many other places, however, the Hollywood styling really annoyed[/q1]
[q1]> me - the way that whenever some monsters are about to kill the[/q1]
[q1]> characters, they suddenly pause and in that pause something suddenly[/q1]
[q1]> saves them (this happened in pretty much every single fight scene), I[/q1]
[q1]> hated the pan-pipey rip-off of Titanic at the end, I hated Sam beating[/q1]
[q1]> up orcs with a saucepan, I hated Frodo being chased round a stone by[/q1]
[q1]> the troll, I hated lines like "If you want him, come claim him", I[/q1]
[q1]> hated Boromir being made so 2 dimensional though I suppose in the time[/q1]
[q1]> limits they had to rather simplify his corruption but all the same, I[/q1]
[q1]> hated the way I'm sure the Ringwraiths drew their swords twice in the[/q1]
[q1]> same battle, I thought the battle between Gandalf and Sauron[/q1]
[q1]> [Saruman?] was actually rather boring compared to the way in the book[/q1]
[q1]> it just talks of great energies being unleashed and leaves it to your[/q1]
[q1]> imagination (they could have panned the camera out and just shown huge[/q1]
[q1]> flashes of light from far away or something).[/q1]

Yes. On the other hand, I loved the Gandalf/Saruman stand-off over the
pass at Caradhras, with that wonderful shot of Saruman atop Orthanc,
intoning spells to whip up a storm. (I presume you mean the Gandalf/
Sauron fight inside Orthanc, with the ridiculous spin-him-around bits?)

(I saw it again today, and noticed a couple of things I'd missed first
time round. I was a bit miffed the first time that we didn't get Ian
McKellen's impressive voice doing the 'One Ring' etc. in Black Speech.
But if you listen to Sauron speaking to Frodo through the Ring (at least
at one point), that's precisely what he's saying:

"Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh
burzum-ishi krimpatul.")

Another thing I was impressed by (the list is long) was the way they
dealt with Gandalf "seem[ing] to grow tall and menacing" when Bilbo
refuses to give up the Ring. Unlike you, though, I found Galadriel's
version of that a bit comic, in a He-Man (or rather She-Ra) sort of way.
("[By the power/For the honour] of Greyskull!")

Mark.
0
Gaurav Sharma
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#29
Report 18 years ago
#29
okay, saw it today, nice film but:

1) the "Gandalf deciding to fall off the cliff while no one helps him
and then decides to cry in the next scene after they escape" bit was
a bit unconvincing.
2) some scenes were so damn extranious, like that stupid elf-woman and
her mirror. and the ending was underwhelming (okay, i know its a
trilogy but they still could've had some special-effects-laden grand
finalé scene with that last monstor or something, tho i guess that's
overcritical).

Sorry, I had to say something. Overall it was really quite amazing
and the style and substance of it all really rocked. I've never read
the book btw.

--
Gaurav Sharma www.gaurav.info
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